CC1981 Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 No. Each news story has its own relevance. This story is about islamic terrorism. Thus its vitally important to state he is muslim. If its a story about indian muslim being a theif, then Indian enough is ok. I dont have a problem with you saying that HE was a muslim - i have a problem when you make comments like this that are not just about 'it is vitally important to state he is muslim' but pot-shotting an entire community: They will always say UK born muslims and rightly so. So next time Canada starts investigating the Air India bombing, lets say 'Indian and Canadian born sikhs'. Eh ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 No. Each news story has its own relevance. This story is about islamic terrorism. Thus its vitally important to state he is muslim. If its a story about indian muslim being a theif, then Indian enough is ok. I would like to ask you this, do you distance from Muslims born and brought up in India? Secondly, do you even consider them of the same nationality if they are from India? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tendulkar Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 I would like to ask you this' date=' do you distance from Muslims born and brought up in India? Secondly, do you even consider them of the same nationality if they are from India?[/quote'] I always ask them one question. Who do you support when india play pakistan? They nearly always say pakistan. I played against a muslim 11. That was the name of the team!!!!! I assumed they were all paks. Chatted to a few of them and they said they were all Indians from Gujurat! I was suprised and then asked who they support when india play pak. They said that the whole team supports pakistan! This kind of thing makes me suspicious of indian muslims. You have to rember these guys have no links with pak at all. Their families have been in gujurat for 1000s of years, so why support pak? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 This kind of thing makes me suspicious of indian muslims. Umm..it is just a facking sport ! There is no big deal in if you support Pakistan or if you support Australia or whatever. Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill- judging people because they support the 'other team' in something as pithy and small (in the grand scheme of things) as a guy whacking a ball with a stick and 11 men chasing the ball ! Keep sport in perspective- btw, my brother always supports the west indies, no questions asked- even when they are playing India. It'd be pretty dumb to take an issue with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tendulkar Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 Why does the whole team support pak. Why do nearly all indian muslims seem to support pak. It may seem a small thing but it sums up their attitude towards India. We had an overseas indian player from bengal. He was muslim, guess who he supported. Pakistan again:whatchutalkingabout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 Why do nearly all indian muslims seem to support pak. Nearly all muslims is an exgaggeration by my experience. Kolkata has a fairly huge muslim community and there are lots of indian muslims in the middle east too- both places where i've spent a lot of time living. I'd say that a lot of indian muslims support pakistan but a lot support india over pakistan too...enough for me not to question the whole bloc. It may seem a small thing but it sums up their attitude towards India. Does my brother supporting west indies above all say something about his attitude towards india too ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tendulkar Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 No your brother is fine. Indians do like and support other teams like the windies as well, he just likes the way they play. Just like loads of people like brazil football team. But muslims supporting pak is whole differnet thing and you now it CC. Why do you think there is such a vast amount of indian muslims supprting pak over India? Why is this? No one else around the world supports pak, so why only muslims from India? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 But muslims supporting pak is whole differnet thing and you now it CC.Now, if i say that i also know of hindus who supported pakistan...what now ? Do you realize that when they had Akram, Waqar, Inzy, Latif, Saqqy in full cry, they'd earn fans worldwide ? Living overseas, i've come across a lot of aussies/english/saffies/sri-lankans...i distinctly remember that in the 90s, when Pakistan used to win a lot more often than India, most non-indians picked Pakistan as their favourite subcontinental team...there were a few indians too who were just bowled over by the fearsome pakistani bowling. I think it is honestly reading too much into it- its just a sport...the 'no-one else supports pakistan' is not really true...visit around cricket messageboards...like the aussie ones/caribbean one etc..you will find that the appreciation/fanhood of pakistan runs high in the generation that saw/grew up with cricket in the 80s & 90s especially. Just like loads of people like brazil football team.C'mon mate- thats not even a fair comparison...brazil is 43573498573485 times better than India in footy...only the most fanatical of indians would support india in an india vs brazil match....in this example, the huge skill-gulf is the main issue i think...ultimately, even the most rabid of soccer fans in India ( and i know a bit about this- bengal is the soccer-mad part of india!) realize that Indian soccer sucks hardcore and brazil is the best of the best. I think what you are failing to acknowledge is that cricket fans are not just restricted to the messageboards- these are usually the domains of the hardcore fans...there are a lot of fans too who simply want to see good cricket and will support the better side... Used to know characters in grade 9 who'd flip support of sides every other day during the 96 world-cup..one day they'r supporting india..next day australia.next..WI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 I always ask them one question. Who do you support when india play pakistan? They nearly always say pakistan. I played against a muslim 11. That was the name of the team!!!!! I assumed they were all paks. Chatted to a few of them and they said they were all Indians from Gujurat! I was suprised and then asked who they support when india play pak. They said that the whole team supports pakistan! This kind of thing makes me suspicious of indian muslims. You have to rember these guys have no links with pak at all. Their families have been in gujurat for 1000s of years, so why support pak? I see your point. Things can be taken in a different perspective when Indians support Pakistan with zeal. Considering the historical background it doesn't suit Indians to support Pakistan it's as simple as that. Supporting Aussies or the Windies is a different thing. There is no animosity brought about by historical rivalry as for Aussies or Windies are concerned. BTW you didn't answer the question though. Do you distance yourself from any muslim from India? You don't like their community, do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tendulkar Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 BTW you didn't answer the question though. Do you distance yourself from any muslim from India? You don't like their community, do you? To be honest do not hang around with any indian muslims. Do not know that many to personally. Would not go out of my way to make friends withn them. Saying that the indian muslim overseas player who came over from Bengal who supported pak. I was good mates with him:confused_smile: I suppose I stil has some affinty with him as he was indian, even though he was total traitor. One of my best mates is Pakistani Althoughe he is a pakistani catholic:regular_smile: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tendulkar Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 Now, if i say that i also know of hindus who supported pakistan...what now ? Do you realize that when they had Akram, Waqar, Inzy, Latif, Saqqy in full cry, they'd earn fans worldwide ? Living overseas, i've come across a lot of aussies/english/saffies/sri-lankans...i distinctly remember that in the 90s, when Pakistan used to win a lot more often than India, most non-indians picked Pakistan as their favourite subcontinental team...there were a few indians too who were just bowled over by the fearsome pakistani bowling. I think it is honestly reading too much into it- its just a sport...the 'no-one else supports pakistan' is not really true...visit around cricket messageboards...like the aussie ones/caribbean one etc..you will find that the appreciation/fanhood of pakistan runs high in the generation that saw/grew up with cricket in the 80s & 90s especially. C'mon mate- thats not even a fair comparison...brazil is 43573498573485 times better than India in footy...only the most fanatical of indians would support india in an india vs brazil match....in this example, the huge skill-gulf is the main issue i think...ultimately, even the most rabid of soccer fans in India ( and i know a bit about this- bengal is the soccer-mad part of india!) realize that Indian soccer sucks hardcore and brazil is the best of the best. I think what you are failing to acknowledge is that cricket fans are not just restricted to the messageboards- these are usually the domains of the hardcore fans...there are a lot of fans too who simply want to see good cricket and will support the better side... Used to know characters in grade 9 who'd flip support of sides every other day during the 96 world-cup..one day they'r supporting india..next day australia.next..WI I meant all people from all diffent countries supportin brazil. You know CC that a hell of a lot indian muslims support pak over India. Why do they do this. You talk about hindus supporting pak but you know its only a handful. And I doubt many support them when they play india. Although quite a few support them when they play others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 suppose I stil has some affinty with him as he was indian, even though he was total traitor. Wow...traitor is a very heavy word...never ever justifiable comment for simply supporting a team in sport. Nomatter what the political situation is. LOL...at the end of the day, a guy whacking a ball with a stick and that becomes a laboratory for testing national loyalty...talk about totally missing the picture! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 You know CC that a hell of a lot indian muslims support pak over India. Why do they do this.Islamic affinity. But its nothing big deal enough for me to get concerned over. Lot of Sikkimese support Bhutan over India too (especially in archery). No biggie IMO. You attaching words like 'traitors/suspicious character/wont go out of way to mek friends/etc' simply by putting meaning into a sport is akin to ordering death sentance for stealing a loaf of bread ! And I doubt many support them when they play india. Although quite a few support them when they play others True...in the 90s, i used to support them over most teams- their bowling attack was to die for IMO though irritatingly inconsistant. But thats not my point..my point is, you are judging too much on too little... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tendulkar Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 Wow...traitor is a very heavy word...never ever justifiable comment for simply supporting a team in sport. Nomatter what the political situation is. LOL...at the end of the day, a guy whacking a ball with a stick and that becomes a laboratory for testing national loyalty...talk about totally missing the picture! The reason I used traitor was not just cos of this. I spent 2 years with this fella and talked to him a lot about religion, india etc. He was no doubt a traitor. But not a bad fella apart from his hatred of indians and non muslims. Apart from that he was genuinely not that bad:haha: Its the tip of the iceberg. look how muslims are refusing to sing indian national antheem. These are all signs of their anti indian stance, which will be confirmed if you chat to them indepth about deeper issues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 Can this hatred be both ways perhaps DSR? Maybe Indian Muslims don't like to go with India because they are treated indifferently by the non-Mulsim Indians and the non-Muslim Indians don't like them because they have different POV towards life, country and the rest? I think it clearly is different POV of two sects that often causes this issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tendulkar Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 Can this hatred be both ways perhaps DSR? Maybe Indian Muslims don't like to go with India because they are treated indifferently by the non-Mulsim Indians and the non-Muslim Indians don't like them because they have different POV towards life' date=' country and the rest? I think it clearly is different POV of two sects that often causes this issue.[/quote'] But I dont go around killing people or advocating killing people to make my ideolgical point. Also your point about muslim treatment may have a point if it was only inida which had islamic problem. The fact that there are loads of countries worldwide having these problems with muslims would seem to indiacte that maybe just maybe the problem lies with islam and its followers. They seem incapable of living alongside non muslims for a whole host of reasons! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 The reason I used traitor was not just cos of this. I spent 2 years with this fella and talked to him a lot about religion, india etc. He was no doubt a traitor. But not a bad fella apart from his hatred of indians and non muslims. Apart from that he was genuinely not that bad And that gives you enough reason to be suspicious about every muslim, eh ?!? Its the tip of the iceberg. look how muslims are refusing to sing indian national antheem. These are all signs of their anti indian stance, which will be confirmed if you chat to them indepth about deeper issues My point, which you are failing to see is that DO NOT ALIENATE the large number of muslims who have nothing to do with anti-indianism by consistently attacking all indian muslims with your ridiculous and disparaging remarks ! The reality is that there are lots an lots of 'traitorous' muslims in India but there are also lots and lots of muslims who are more deshbhakt than some of our wannabe-deshbhakt-NRIs here are. Your respect for them should NOT be compromised. Indian muslims have laid their lives down for India too-fighting muslims no less ! You carpet-blanketing all muslims not only reflects your ignorance of the whole picture, it is ultimately detrimental to our own cause ! By aligning all muslims in one 'suspicious' basket, you are giving the pro-india muslims less and less reason to stay pro-india. Imagine how you'd feel if you were a muslim in the army fighting terrorists, risking his life for India and hearing this kinda comments thrown his way coz he is a muslim on his leave walking to his city masjid for namaz ? If i were him, there'd come a point where i couldnt take this amount of escalating and completely undeserved abuse and do something rash too. If not today, then maybe in 50 years...one can only take so much abuse. And how is that in the least bit helping india or the non-muslims ? Your attitude (discrimination towards all muslims) is doing nothing to curb anti-islamism (for the fundie muslims who are the real enemy will only use your hatred as agenda to go 'see ? we told you so- they just hate us all!' and gain more converts) AND your viewpoints are the cause of 1 less Indian in our corner. That is the future of India with your level of narrowminded saffron-toting thinking. Ie a thinking that does not solve the situation at the slightest but only further makes it worse. This is why your kind of thinking is equally damaging but on a low-intensity-but-in-the-long-run respect towards India as is the action of the LeT types. It achieves nothing but negetive results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 But I dont go around killing people or advocating killing people to make my ideolgical point. There are hindus who do that too...so now what ? The fact that there are loads of countries worldwide having these problems with muslims would seem to indiacte that maybe just maybe the problem lies with islam and its followers. True..the problem is ultimately with Islam. No arguments there. But your viewpoint and treatment of muslims is not contributing towards the solution but towards the problem! Thats the messed-up part you are not seeing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaurav Posted July 3, 2007 Author Share Posted July 3, 2007 Australian media reports have identified the man as Dr Mohammed Haneef, aged 27, who was detained while trying to board a plane to India. Sorry the whole attack is to do with Islam and is directly inspired by Islamic teachings so why exactly should news media not mention that the arrested person was muslim? Indian can be anything just like Asian (christian, muslim, hindu, sikh...etc) When the context is religious attacks/terrorism then the religion of the attacker is ABSOLUTELY relevant! If the topic was non-religious then I can see that the term Asian or Indian could be enough. News should be about providing accurate detailed information and not about being PC. Anyway his name clears everything for Brits as well. When Gujarat riot happened the foreign + Indian media clearly said that Hindus had rioted! I did not see any of you apologists coming out with your absurd argument that the media should have just said Indian instead of Hindus!:hysterical: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 When the context is religious attacks/terrorism then the religion of the attacker is ABSOLUTELY relevant! That was not my issue- my issue was with subtly pot-shotting and generalizing about a lot of muslims by using 'british muslims...' kinda statements. Its the difference between saying ' blahblah Singh, a Canadian sikh and a few of his accomplices, also sikh and extremists, blew up air india flight...' and ' Canadian Sikhs blew up air india flight'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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