A Guide to MANGA and ANIME

[suma25]

As for not copying Japanese style, let me tell you why I think we should:

again why!!!!!

1). Anime/manga art has a style which exagerates facial features, making it much easier to be expressive.

your first point is debatable there are other cartoons styles (i dont recollect the cartoonist 's name i think its max fleischer...maybe ) from west which give equally or even more exageration of facial features though in a whacky way but more much more expressive disney is not far behind.. thelypsynch in anime is crappy....infact its bad even for the japanese language but again thats something of anime style

2)Its the asian style, and India is an asian country, with similar history/legend/culture to Japan.

no its japanese style not an asian style indian style of character design and animation is very different.again where is the sense of originality there isnt any if u try copying anime style.every animation has its own identity whether it be anime, disney, fleischer ,genddy tartovsky(clone wars/dexter/ samurai jack fame) and lot and that is why they have succeeded because they have their own style .

Other asian countries like Korea have made their comics in manga/anime style, to great sucess.

that doesnt mean that it will be a great success in india Their cultures are more closely related than japanese and indian culture i maybe wrong here though

[gorah_pindu]

Originality of story for me is more important than originality of art. Thats why I would like Indian artists to be primarily influenced by Japanese manga, and classical Indian art. I.E. a combination of this: And this: But at the same time, I wish for original story material to be created - this is the true meat of an original Indian manga industry - just like Korean manhwa is infused with Korean stories and culture. If Indian artists continue down the path of western animation (call it original if you wish, but thats what it basically is), they will be taking influence from the muddy puddle at the side of a pristine lake of Japanese inspiration in my opinion. I dont respect American cartoons because they are usually chained up in Cold War era censorship and Christian taboo - and the same goes for American comics prior to the 90s.

[gorah_pindu]

Just to clarify what I wrote above - I dont want Indian artists to copy story and themes of anime and manga, only the art style, which I think is uniquely suited to Asian cultures like India, Japan, Korea, China, etc. And even here, I would like Indian styles to be incorporated. Right now Indian entertainment is ludacrisly western - where Indian legend resembles the tales of manga and anime - we instead end up with wizards, witches, knights, magic wands, and other blatently European style fantasy turning up all the time. Where are the TV series and comics about ancient wandering Kshatriya working as mercinaries for local Maharajas, armies of Rakshas assulting fantasy fortresses, even Indian space ships in the far future?

[suma25]

Originality of story for me is more important than originality of art.

agreed for me as well story is important but what makes anime unique and along with story what appeals to teens 20 somethings is the art style for them/me . if you need influences of japanese art and indian art this wud be best (not the best but still close)example pretty graphic (like most of japanese anime) still retains abit of indianess though though a little less of western influence would do hellof good now if you add anime features to the charcter then it wud looko more of japnese anime/manga than an indian manga

[suma25]

Just to clarify what I wrote above - I dont want Indian artists to copy story and themes of anime and manga, only the art style, which I think is uniquely suited to Asian cultures like India, Japan, Korea, China, etc. And even here, I would like Indian styles to be incorporated. Right now Indian entertainment is ludacrisly western - where Indian legend resembles the tales of manga and anime - we instead end up with wizards, witches, knights, magic wands, and other blatently European style fantasy turning up all the time. Where are the TV series and comics about ancient wandering Kshatriya working as mercinaries for local Maharajas, armies of Rakshas assulting fantasy fortresses, even Indian space ships in the far future?

But copying anime art for me wud be the equivalent of copying anime themes and story dont you think so??? india cinema indian serial are influenced by western media indian animation hope not but right now the dissapointing part is most of studios are working as nothing but outsourcing centres.If you look at the indian shorts that have come out be it chota birbal tenali raman or hanuman-movie ( however bad the animation was -it was gud effort) there maybe some but the western influence is not that over dominant or dominant as in the case of bollywood which is good andshould stay that way.. the bollywood animations dished out by karan johar and nandy saab are just that pure crap and bullshit

[gorah_pindu]

But copying anime art for me wud be the equivalent of copying anime themes and story dont you think so???

No, I dont think copying the art style means copying the theme/story. For example - one can write Indian poetry within a European stanza. The technical layout is European, but the subject, etc, is Indian. Thats why I would like India to do what Korea did - use the art to tell its own stories. But, there is a second reason why I favour this approach: Indian artists would be part of the Japanese and Korean intellectual circle, and could observe two sucessfull ways of making asian entertainment. That is the real reason I would like artists to be more closely aligned to the manga side of comics - they would take inspiration from a culturally similar sucess story, rather than be tempted to Europeanise India's very asian culture into 'wizards', 'spells', 'magic wands', 'genies', 'sorcerers', 'flying brooms', etc.

[suma25]

BcCjGuGzStM Vaibhav Kumaresh_ BCd74vYDhUA amaron ad the ad basically which made him wellknown

[gorah_pindu]

Ill give you an example of what I mean: 1). Eastern legend is infused with the idea that evil is caused by ignorance, which leads to predjudice (the cause of all human vs human suffering). 2). Western legend is infused with the idea that evil is caused by supernatural forces, which are in a constant battle against the forces of good. Indian artists working under the influence of popular western art styles, would end up creating Abrahamic stories of satanic dark lords, and forces of light battleing them. Indian artists working under the influence of Japanese styles would see their stories of Dharmic ignorance and prejudice being the root of evil, and create more authentically Indian stories, philosophically speaking. This can already be seen in how within the Virgin Comics series 'Devi', the main antagonist, no doubt inspired by the western comics that Gotham Chopra read, is little more than a typical laughing one-dimentional satan/sauron/shaitan figure - compare this to the wonderfully fleshed out villains of anime and manga, which are often only an antagonist due to their beliefs, not some inherent 'evil'. This is why I wish India was more closely aligned with manga/manhwa/manhua/anime, than the overtly or subconsiously western mindset of most western entertainment.

[suma25]

No, I dont think copying the art style means copying the theme/story. For example - one can write Indian poetry within a European stanza. The technical layout is European, but the subject, etc, is Indian.

i think we agree to disagree on that one then... regarding the poem it wud still feel lessindian to me wont have the same effect on me

Indian artists would be part of the Japanese and Korean intellectual circle, and could observe two sucessfull ways of making asian entertainment. That is the real reason I would like artists to be more closely aligned to the manga side of comics -

agreeon that though but seriously check out the shorts imentioned and lemme know if you see any westernisation of indian culture or the shorts i posted above

[gorah_pindu]

Im not concerned with that, im concerned with true entertainment - full lenght TV series, movies, comics, graphic novels, games, etc - which are somewhat different from the artistic dabblings of short animation workers. Frankly, I see animation like that all the time in the west anyway, so it is an example of a European stanza with Indian poetry.

[suma25]

This can already be seen in how within the Virgin Comics series 'Devi', the main antagonist, no doubt inspired by the western comics that Gotham Chopra read, is little more than a typical laughing one-dimentional satan/sauron/shaitan figure - compare this to the wonderfully fleshed out villains of anime and manga, which are often only an antagonist due to their beliefs, not some inherent 'evil'.

yes virgin comic borrows heavily form western comics that is the downer on the other hand compare amarchitrakatha comics and you will see not all indian comics are influenced by the west..also when i said indian style/art this can be best seen in this comics(amarchitrakatha/tinkle)now tell me (If you have read amarchitrakatha/tinkle)will this art represent indianculture more better or manga style...

[suma25]

Im not concerned with that, im concerned with true entertainment - full lenght TV series, movies, comics, graphic novels, games, etc - which are somewhat different from the artistic dabblings of short animation workers.

Are you saying that a 5 min short does not have the same entertainment value as as full length tv series or comics or graphic novels...

[gorah_pindu]

As ive said, the main reason I want Indian artists to look to manga is to avoid the trap of westernised philosophy pervading story and themes, since Japan has an almost identical philosophical outlook. So, im not really saying the art itself represents asia more, but rather the people who are part of the tradition do - and it is much easier to adopt all of the tradition than try to sepreate the artists attitudes from the art.

[gorah_pindu]

Are you saying that a 5 min short does not have the same entertainment value as as full length tv series or comics or graphic novels...

No - im saying that true mass market entertainment is a culture that cannot be fostered through the efforts of small teams dabbling in the field - it is an industry, and a self-sustaining intellectual movement.

[suma25]

No - im saying that true mass market entertainment is a culture that cannot be fostered through the efforts of small teams dabbling in the field - it is an industry' date=' and a self-sustaining intellectual movement.[/quote']well if by small team you mean group of 100 people thent there are more then couple of studios which have had success in true mass entertainment.blue sky studios blur stuidios to a lesser extent and couple of game studios as well..

[CC1981]

I am totally with GP on this one- Indian comic industry is at a nascent stage and everything at a nascent stage needs a mentor- gravitating towards eastern anime/manga is far more desirable in my viewpoint than the current trend of gravitating towards western animation. For one, the japanese stuff are infinitely more creative in its artistry than western anime,which is at best a hodge-podge job of caricature for most part. For two, western animation tends to nihilistic to he core and is essentially reflective of a nihilistic/anti-establishment angst-ridden perspective and this is reflected in most western animation of any substance(ie,geared towards adults)- The simpsons,family guy, Robot Chicken, Aqua-teen-hunger-force, the venture-brothers,etc etc- all reflective of a nihilism and a rudderless boat,while eastern anime is far more cogent in its approach & content. Unfortunately, knowing indians and the recent 'NRI-effect', we are too far gone into blindly imitating the west (even for those chest-thumpers who pretend not to be imitating the west).

[gorah_pindu]

which is at best a hodge-podge job of caricature for most part.

You hit the nail on the head with that description - watch any western cartoon, and instead of conherent plot and direction, episodes tend to be hodge podge masala of whatever anecdotal theme the writer was thinking of at the time. This is good some of the time, but not allways, and reflects a care bear attitude that rather not let youngsters see stories or issues with any meat, for fear of legal reprisal, and in slavery to the child demographic.

western animation tends to nihilistic to he core and is essentially reflective of a nihilistic/anti-establishment angst-ridden perspective

However, id have to disagree with you on the second point - ive seen works of manga and anime which are far more nihilistic or angst ridden than the west would ever dare to show, and enjoyed them greatly :-) If anything, western stories are obsessed with Secular Humanist or Christian morality, because cartoons are seen as a kids medium, and thus parents are scared to let anything less than religious or humanist morals pervade every story.

[Rahul]

superb thread, GP. my All time fav is mermaid's forest by Takahashi the genius.

[varun]

The simpsons' date='[b']family guy, Robot Chicken, Aqua-teen-hunger-force, the venture-brothers,etc etc- all reflective of a nihilism and a rudderless boat,

Noo.. family guy rulzzzz. Yes that's as far as my argument will go.. and no i'm not foolish enough to take it any further with u :haha:

[Gaurav]

Kya ek dusre ki pakad ke bathe rathe ho tum sabh loge :hysterical: Cold shower le lo :hysterical: