A Guide to MANGA and ANIME

[CC1981]

However, id have to disagree with you on the second point - ive seen works of manga and anime which are far more nihilistic or angst ridden than the west would ever dare to show, and enjoyed them greatly :-)

My anime experience is far less than your's so i will defer to your judgement. But from what i've noted, i got the distinct impression that western cartoons are nihilistic by nature while japanese anime explores nihilism- there is a subtle difference, or atleast, there seems to be one. its not the violence factor that i think is the issue- but the context of it. For eg, in the anime series hellsing, there is copious amount of blood, gore and violence but never have i seen an anime where someone gets killed totally senselessly- like kenny in south park or some guy getting stomped on for no real reason whatsoever- and neither does it have any room for reflection or any bearing in the plot-line. The morbidity in anime is introspective while in western animation, its there just to have some totally random & context-less violence.

[suma25]

[ Unfortunately, knowing indians and the recent 'NRI-effect', we are too far gone into blindly imitating the west (even for those chest-thumpers who pretend not to be imitating the west).

that may be true but as i mentioned earlier if you have have seen any one of the recent indian animated short series/films u will see its more truer to indian tradition culture and is not simply trying to ape the west.......

[Rahul]

Kya ek dusre ki pakad ke bathe rathe ho tum sabh loge :hysterical: Cold shower le lo :hysterical:

same post on multiple threads, Gai. u losing yr touch.

[CC1981]

Hey GP/Suma/Gambo/Rahul,et.al- i found this on youtube:

- looks pretty good to me, quite artistic and reasonably accurate in its potrayal- just a trailer though but would like your comments on it. If its good, i'd probably like to own this one.

[suma25]

Hey GP/Suma/Gambo/Rahul,et.al- i found this on youtube:

- looks pretty good to me, quite artistic and reasonably accurate in its potrayal- just a trailer though but would like your comments on it. If its good, i'd probably like to own this one.

yup I have this film on dvd .... its not anything awesome but pretty good none theless attempt for indian animation.... ifyou are afan of anime cc its worth a watch ..and yes its pretty much accurate though in the start it clearly mentions it doesnt deal with all of ramyana but only parts of it....

[gorah_pindu]

Hey GP/Suma/Gambo/Rahul,et.al- i found this on youtube:

- looks pretty good to me, quite artistic and reasonably accurate in its potrayal- just a trailer though but would like your comments on it. If its good, i'd probably like to own this one.

I watched it a few years back - it was made to celebrate 75 years of Indo-Japanese relations or something - while its not by any means the best anime ive seen, its still ten times better than any other modern adaptation of the epic. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0259534/

[gorah_pindu]

But from what i've noted' date=' i got the distinct impression that western cartoons are nihilistic by nature while japanese anime explores nihilism- there is a subtle difference, or atleast, there seems to be one.[/quote'] The only true nihilistic works I can think of in the west are Family Guy and South Park - which is why they make such good comedy. But they arnt ongoing stories, they are mearly episodic comedy - I was thinking of true serial anime - of which there are plenty of nihilistic works that dont neccecarily explore nihilism, but just have fun - Gantz is a prominent example, and while I doubt everyone would like it (or 'get' it), it is one of my all time favorites.

[gorah_pindu]

superb thread, GP. my All time fav is mermaid's forest by Takahashi the genius.

Thanks man, and ill have to check that one out - I havent seen it :teeth_smile:

[ludhianvi]

gp, I just found out that I am 220 episodes behind in Naruto :) The entire episodes are like 38 gigs and I am downloading at 2kbps. Its going to be a long process

[gorah_pindu]

that may be true but as i mentioned earlier if you have have seen any one of the recent indian animated short series/films u will see its more truer to indian tradition culture and is not simply trying to ape the west.......

I had seen the taxi one before on another site. To me it represents something that is only superficially Indian - i.e. treats India as a novelty subject, like some work of orientalist fiction. If I wanted 'fiction about India', I could read Rudyard Kipling or something, instead I want 'Indian fiction' - the difference being India isnt the novelty subject, but mearly a platform for universal ideas. Take the example of Samurai manga - most of it could be set anywhere from India to America to Africa - because the wandering warrior is a universal theme - it dosent go out of its way to orientalistically and steriotypically 'explore' Japanese culture, instead it mearly presents a compelling tale within the Japanese setting. Compare this to Indian stuff (or stuff about India I should say), every single novel seems to be intent on making superficial moralisations and satire about modern Indian life, and the transient masala/Bollywood culture of the present say. It lacks any universal appeal, and reads more like travel fiction - picking out anecdotal quirks as if India is somehow different to any other human culture.

[gorah_pindu]

gp, I just found out that I am 220 episodes behind in Naruto :) The entire episodes are like 38 gigs and I am downloading at 2kbps. Its going to be a long process

You can skip episodes 136-220! :teeth_smile: Let me explain why - in Japan, series never take breaks. So, if an anime that is long and ongoing start catching up with the manga they are based on, the anime writers start using episodes called 'fillers', which are made up on the spot, and have nothing to do with the manga. Naruto is one of the worst examples of this - it notoriously had about 100, extreamly poor filler episodes beggining at episodes 136. So, skip these, they have no relevance - just start watching Naruto: Shippuden after episode 135 :-) Or, better yet, read the manga, because after being one the of all time best anime series, the quality of Naruto- Shippuden isnt as good as the first series of Naruto in many people's opinion - i.e. they are stretching the story out a lot, to allow the manga to go ahead. Dont let this put you off, because most anime series never run long enough for fillers to be a problem, and other anime such as Bleach, handled fillers with far more grace than Naruto did.

[gorah_pindu]

The difference between "fiction about India" and "Indian fiction" Id like to share something that I believe about India related entertainment. For me, Indian history, culture and philosophy can be used in two ways: 1). Fiction about India What I mean by this is fiction that treats India, or Indian society, as a novelty. An example of this is the orientalist works of people like Rudyard Kipling, who wanted to romantisise a 'mystical land'. Another example would be a modern Indian author, who makes the same transient observations, perhaps making a satire of 'Indian life' (as if Indians are not fundamentally motivated by the same human culture as other people), or moralising about some social problem (as if other countries didnt have them). For me, fiction about India, dosent hold much interest. This is because I believe all human culture is fundamentally the same, so quirks and observations dont impress me much. I dont believe India is 'incomprehensable', or any of the other bullshit tags that often get applied - I never had any more trouble comprehending it than any other country. 2). Indian fiction What I mean by this is fiction that uses an Indian setting, or Indian philosophy, or whatever, but which explores universal themes. An example of this would be Virgin Comics Ramayan 3392 AD - it uses the Ramayana, and Indian culture as a setting, but fundamentally speaking, explores universal ideas, and compelling situations. For me, this type of fiction is more authentic than some work of orientalist travel writing that points out quirks, and reduces 5000 years of human culture to Bollywood and curry. This is why Japanese entertainment is so sucessfull - most of it could be applied anywhere, and dosent treat Japan like a novelty - it is always fresh and original. A Samurai epic might be set in medieval Tokyo, but the setting is mearly a vessel for the story - just a background piece that furthers the plot, or adds atmosphere.

[suma25]

I had seen the taxi one before on another site. To me it represents something that is only superficially Indian - i.e. treats India as a novelty subject' date=' like some work of orientalist fiction. If I wanted [b']'fiction about India', I could read Rudyard Kipling or something, instead I want 'Indian fiction' - the difference being India isnt the novelty subject, but mearly a platform for universal ideas. Take the example of Samurai manga - most of it could be set anywhere from India to America to Africa - because the wandering warrior is a universal theme - it dosent go out of its way to orientalistically and steriotypically 'explore' Japanese culture, instead it mearly presents a compelling tale within the Japanese setting.

but done you agree there is also stereotyping / superficiality in anime shows as well.Ihavent read Samurai manga.....whatis it all about

[gorah_pindu]

I cant recall any anime that steriotypes or superficialises Japan in the way Indian fiction often steriotypes or superficilises India. Maybe I avoid those ones - but at least there is an alternative to them.

[suma25]

I cant recall any anime that steriotypes or superficialises Japan in the way Indian fiction often steriotypes or superficilises India. Maybe I avoid those ones - but at least there is an alternative to them.

initiald series, samurai champloo, naruto series,yugiohseries.. ranma to certain extent(have sen just few episodes of these but still... the reason is there is already alternative because its an already develpod matured industry.whereas indian animation is not.give it some time

[gorah_pindu]

Hyderbad has the third largest animation studio in Asia. And India is expected to earn a billion in animation by next decade. But we may lose competition to Korea, Phillipines, Taiwan, etc. Mainly because of the crap quality of films so far. Immature quick buch films that disney-fy Hindu legend. And the culture seems to be heading toward pixar style 3D comedy. Whereas if India has been part of the anime sphere like Korea, Taiwan, etc, animators would be leaning toward serious animation, and a more diverse industry.

[Rahul]

Thanks man' date=' and ill have to check that one out - I havent seen it :teeth_smile:[/quote'] cool GP, NP. i feel very strongly for the artform. i even organised the only showing at UPenn's International House on Chestnut and 37th for "Nausicaa: of the Valley of the Wind," which was preceded by the heart-wrenching post-N-Bomb saga by Keiji Nakazawa, Hadashi no Gen, also known as "Barefoot Gen." Gen is a little boy who witnesses the horrible OTT crap from US to bomb Hiroshima and nagasaki with the worst weapon known to man and is one of the few survivors. the scenes where a radio-actively-afflicted mom is trying to feed her infant absolutelyt wrenched my guts, bro. but the scene where poor 8-yr-old Gen tries to rescue his family from under their collapsed house and their hands he tries to pull out from under the debris MELTS (cos of radiation) KILLED ME--i still cry when i think of it... Nakazawa RULZ!!!

[Rahul]

did not know that battle royale was adapted into an anime. the movie was right up there with ichi the killer.

somehow, i didnt think so... the raw "feel" that only takashi Miike (the God) can impart to his movies goes faaar beyong any written/comic media. case in point, the credits of "ichi the killer"--a voyeur's semen morphs into the letters that form the opening credits. ichi the killer, for me, was disappointing, in terms of the source material--the bird as a theme etc--Takashi went far beyond what the original manga was. Takashi tooko the manga and OWNED it on film. my fav Takashi Miike flicks are: his first big hit, Shinjuku Triad Society (for sheer elan) the movingly brilliant The Bird People in China the ridiculously disturbing Audition and Visitor... and the most disturbing bit of film i have ever watched: the fabulous episode (banned for graphic violence in US) for the Masters of Horror series (i dlded from a rip of the bravo episode from UK): IMPRINT. takashi is my true inspiration in film-making. brilliance beyond compare. rgds, R www.victimssong.com

[gorah_pindu]

Japanese cinema in general is probably my favorite :) Although there are some great films coming out of South Korea too.

i feel very strongly for the artform.

Yeh, ive got the same passion. I just wished India would do something similar. I look at so many manga and anime stories, and cant help but think "that one would have worked so well in a Indian setting", etc.

[chanakya]

hmmm bit late on this. Gantz rocks. Even the animie was awesome. Nothing beats Naruto though.