Time for Kumble?

[The Outsider]

Fact or not ? I am not asking him to be dropped- he is our MVP bowler by a longshot- but fact is' date=' Kumble is not a great bowler (merely average) outside the subcontinent.[/quote'] That was true earlier but all his last overseas series have been a success starting with Australia, Pakistan, West Indies, and South Africa.

[CC1981]

He is a very good bowler. To call him average is madness.

To not see that he is average outside subcontinent *is* madness. Kumble is a champion in the subcontinent but is rather mediocre outside of it. This fact is corroborated by damning evidence : Kumble in subcontinent: 72 matches, 386 wickets @ 25.67, 26 five fers, 7 10-fers. Kumble outside subcontinent: 43 matches, 166 wickets @ 35.34, 7 five-fers, 1 10-fer. In subcontinent, he takes over 5 wickets per match at a great average(for a spinner) at 25. takes a five-for less than every 3 matches. Outside the subcontinent, he takes less than 4 wickets per match, his average balloons up to a rather mediocre 35 & he takes five-fers, every six matches.

[CC1981]

That was true earlier but all his last overseas series have been a success starting with Australia' date=' Pakistan, West Indies, and South Africa.[/quote'] He had decent work-horsish series with the odd good spell. Not 'great' series IMO. Doesnt average less than 30 in Australia despite taking a boatload of wickets. Pakistan, he had one good innings basically. 23 wickets @ 28 in west indies, minus Lara is very mediocre - Murali takes 20+ wicekts @ 20-ish in the caribbean.

[King Tendulkar]

He had decent work-horsish series with the odd good spell. Not 'great' series IMO. Doesnt average less than 30 in Australia despite taking a boatload of wickets. Pakistan, he had one good innings basically. 23 wickets @ 28 in west indies, minus Lara is very mediocre - Murali takes 20+ wicekts @ 20-ish in the caribbean.

Comparing him to murali is silly. Its like comparing all pacers to Marshall eg if you are not as good as marshall you are not a very good pacer

[The Outsider]

Doesnt average less than 30 in Australia despite taking a boatload of wickets.

He was THE standout bowler in the series from either side in the series.

Pakistan, he had one good innings basically.

Again, he had the best average from either side in the series.

23 wickets @ 28 in west indies, minus Lara is very mediocre

Minus Lara?? Lara played the series. Highest wicket taker in the series from either side with one of the better averages. Sure Murali is better. When did I dispute that?

[CC1981]

Its like comparing all pacers to Marshall eg if you are not as good as marshall you are not a very good pacer

Inside the subcontinent, Kumble is an Alan Donald if Murali is Marshall, outside the subcontinent, he is a chaminda vaas compared to Muttiah 'Marshall'.

[CC1981]

Highest wicket taker in the series from either side with one of the better averages.

At a very mediocre average for a 'great' bowler, nonetheless.

Again, he had the best average from either side in the series.

yes- but so far, he's had one good innings in pakistan. Thats it.

He was THE standout bowler in the series from either side in the series.

His competition from either side didnt incude even a 'good' bowler apart from a far far inferior McGill. Kumble has been adequate ouside of the subcontinent of late but he is not going to be a factor for 2/3rds of the matches he plays. But overall, hes been pretty average outside the subcontinent in his career.

[living]

My point exactly, everyone is talking about him as if he is *still* a GREAT bowler. The fact is he is a good bowler, and all I'm saying is that the selectors have to consider other spin options in India who can spin the ball more and perhaps be more aggressive. Again, I'm saying this because we need to take 20 wickets in a game. Kumble can't do ANYTHING unless we have a big total to defend. That's not how GREAT bowlers get wickets. Take wickets and be economical while defending a sub 300 score - when has Kumble done that in the recent past? Other than that unplayable track in the last WI test - that track was as bad as the last track used in Mumbai when Aus toured india last time around.