Major issues facing India | Home Truths for Indian selectors

[Ultimate_Game]

I am not even talking Tests where we are faced with whole bunch of problems but am focusing on odis. Granted we are much better at odis than Tests (away) but there are plenty of issues that have come up during this tri-series... 1. Lack of incisive bowling - We always let the opposition off the hook and even if we manage a decent start with the ball we seldom capitalize. Case in point our games against Aus. In the 1st odi cut short due to rain we allowed Aus to score 216 in 32 overs from 49/3 after 15. Yesterday we again let Aussies pile up 288 in 50 overs after they were hovering at a RR of around 4.1 in 28 overs with 3-4 wkts down, no Clarke in the team and with us playing on helpful Gabba pitch with 4 pacers. Even Zak looks past it now as he's nowhere near as good as he was last year in the WC. Major worrying sign is that every team in the last 2 years have managed to bundle Aus cheaply on plenty of occasions - Pak bowled Aus under 100 in Eng, Eng did it various times in Aus, SA bundled Aus out for 47, NZ did it couple of months back and even SL managed to bowl Aus out for 158 in their last game (that too on a much better surface in Sydney) but we have played 4 Tests and 3 odis and we still haven't managed to bowl Aussies cheaply even once. Shows how poor our bowling is and there's no consistency. Even Umesh for all his talent and speed has been outbowled by the likes of Kulasekara and Angelo Mathews this series. 2. Lack of batting firepower - Let's face it that without Sehwag at the top and Yuvi in the middle order, we lack firepower to chase big totals or put up huge ones. This lack of firepower is the main reason why our NRR is the lowest coz we can't even chase 230 comfortably anymore. Of course it doesn't help that our bowlers hardly get opponents out cheaply, that only Dhoni and Gambhir are in any sort of form and we have no clue what to do with SRT in the team. 3. Poor fielding/catching - Even though our fielding has improved drastically in odis as compared to Tests we still drop too many catches. If we had taken Wade in the first over it would have opened up Aussie top/middle order with an out of form Ponting in next and other batsmen getting exposed to the new ball. With the dropped catch we wasted the new ball and our 1st wkt came when the ball was new and it was too late. Look at the way we crumbled against the new ball yesterday. 4. No. 7 position in the batting order - Ideally a power hitter should bat at 7 but we have Jadeja batting there and he can hardly be termed a power hitter as he struggles to get boundaries or 6s. Compared to other teams - SL has Mathews, Kulasekara etc., Aus have Christian and David Hussey, we lack a decent lower order hitter. Maybe somebody like Uthappa can be tried in the next series. 5. Openers - We are not getting starts at the top with the middle order exposed to the new ball regularly. In Aus seeing off new ball is crucial and at the moment neither Sehwag or Tendulkar look like doing so.

[Sidhoni]

We are not lacking firepower. We have got guys like Sehwag, Yuvi, Raina & MSD, why would u want more than 4 big hitting batsmen in the batting lineup, u need someone to consolidate too.

[Ultimate_Game]

We are not lacking firepower. We have got guys like Sehwag, Yuvi, Raina & MSD, why would u want more than 4 big hitting batsmen in the batting lineup, u need someone to consolidate too.

1. Yuvi may not play intl cricket again and he's not here in this series 2. Sehwag is so unfit that if he dives in a match he gets back spasms and is ruled out for 4 games, and I did say without Sehwag in OP. Raina is the only one batsman who could score quick runs if required as there were no Sehwag and Yuvi in the team. I think we need to find a couple of batsmen who can score quickly as Yuvi may not come back and Sehwag will not last long.

[gaurav92]

[saneindian]

All these problems have always been there in the ODI team, but for a good part of last 15-20 years, batting more or less covered for the shortcomings in other areas. Thats where the problem lies. The top order has just not shown any consistency post the WC. Kohli and MSD have been the only ones consistently scoring and even Kohli has hit a bit of a slump in the last 3-4 matches. On this tour, every time the ball has done something, the batting has looked clueless against the new ball, too many high risks shots have been attempted. We are primarily a side known for its batting, and unless those issues in batting are sorted out, other areas would continue to struggle.

[Lurker]

All fair points UG, but something tells me that there is also a 5th point - ownership, or lack thereof. It is the same reason that makes Dhoni such a deadly finisher. He takes it upon himself to deliver. You can see it in the way he approaches a chase, and finishes off. Slow and steady, almost thinking he is the last man standing and then get within the knockout range and deliver it. Can we say the same about the rest of the act?? I am not so sure. Umesh Yadav is a good example. Although he is way too young a player, age wise and experience wise, I have to wonder if Dhoni intentionally brings him later on (as in 23rd over) or if this is a ploy to rattle your one true fast bowler? History is replete with Ian Chappells and Clive Lloyd's bringing their Lillees and Marshalls as first change only to tick off their lead bowlers so much that they took it out on the opposition and ran with the wickets. Much as I absolutely love watching Umesh bowl 150 plus, I wish he would just run in and give hell to Aussies with 150. That has not happened. Again this is the first series for a young gun so all is forgiven but with an arsenal like 150 plus Umesh should be doing some major damage out there.

[Ultimate_Game]

All these problems have always been there in the ODI team, but for a good part of last 15-20 years, batting more or less covered for the shortcomings in other areas. Thats where the problem lies. The top order has just not shown any consistency post the WC. Kohli and MSD have been the only ones consistently scoring and even Kohli has hit a bit of a slump in the last 3-4 matches. On this tour, every time the ball has done something, the batting has looked clueless against the new ball, too many high risks shots have been attempted. We are primarily a side known for its batting, and unless those issues in batting are sorted out, other areas would continue to struggle.

We never faced issue of lacking batting firepower. We had Sehwag at the top, Yuvi in the middle order and Raina coming in at 7, with Dhoni capable of scoring fast if required. But with no Yuvi and without Sehwag in the team we can't score a big total. In fact we also used to have Yusuf Pathan in the team and even though he wasn't consistent at least we were never out of any game and he did turn a few games. But now anything over 250 looks like a difficult chase.

[saneindian]

We never faced issue of lacking batting firepower. We had Sehwag at the top' date= Yuvi in the middle order and Raina coming in at 7, with Dhoni capable of scoring fast if required. But with no Yuvi and without Sehwag in the team we can't score a big total. In fact we also used to have Yusuf Pathan in the team and even though he wasn't consistent at least we were never out of any game and he did turn a few games. But now anything over 250 looks like a difficult chase.

With Sehwag and Yuvraj in the side on previous tours, how many times did we chase 250+ in Australia? I can't recall a single such instance. Also, a look at Sehwag's and Yuvi's record in Australia suggests they have been no better than the Rohits or Rainas on this tour. Sehwag has an avg of 23 and Yuvraj averages 30 in Australia which means they haven;t had much of an impact. In chases, Sehwag has an avg of 27 and Yuvraj averages 21! This including many games against Zimbabwe.

[CG]

With Sehwag and Yuvraj in the side on previous tours' date=' how many times did we chase 250+ in Australia? I can't recall a single such instance.[/quote'] We got close to chasing 290 last time ,But we did not have to last tour as we our bowling attack was good.In these conditions 250+ is very hard to chase.

[Ultimate_Game]

All fair points UG' date=' but something tells me that there is also a 5th point - [b']ownership, or lack thereof. It is the same reason that makes Dhoni such a deadly finisher. He takes it upon himself to deliver. You can see it in the way he approaches a chase, and finishes off. Slow and steady, almost thinking he is the last man standing and then get within the knockout range and deliver it. Can we say the same about the rest of the act?? I am not so sure. Umesh Yadav is a good example. Although he is way too young a player, age wise and experience wise, I have to wonder if Dhoni intentionally brings him later on (as in 23rd over) or if this is a ploy to rattle your one true fast bowler? History is replete with Ian Chappells and Clive Lloyd's bringing their Lillees and Marshalls as first change only to tick off their lead bowlers so much that they took it out on the opposition and ran with the wickets. Much as I absolutely love watching Umesh bowl 150 plus, I wish he would just run in and give hell to Aussies with 150. That has not happened. Again this is the first series for a young gun so all is forgiven but with an arsenal like 150 plus Umesh should be doing some major damage out there.

I have given up on accountability and taking responsibility for yourself. If BCCI big-wigs like Srinivasan, Rajeev Shukla, Srikkanth, Sharad Pawar don't have any notion of accountability and personal responsibility, it's too much to ask players to do so. In fact there are already threads on the issue so that's why focused solely on skills and team composition part. I don't think too many players in the side value their wkts as much or have too much personal pride in their performances. It looks like players are sated with doing just enough to remain in the team and hope they will be able to cash in at home and IPL.

[CG]

You forgot the Most important Issue Ug- CAPTAINCY

[Ultimate_Game]

With Sehwag and Yuvraj in the side on previous tours, how many times did we chase 250+ in Australia? I can't recall a single such instance. Also, a look at Sehwag's and Yuvi's record in Australia suggests they have been no better than the Rohits or Rainas on this tour. Sehwag has an avg of 23 and Yuvraj averages 30 in Australia which means they haven;t had much of an impact. In chases, Sehwag has an avg of 27 and Yuvraj averages 21! This including many games against Zimbabwe.

Fair point. At least on the earlier Aus tour we had a better bowling lineup with Ishant and PK bowling much better and taking early wkts. Even Irfan was bowling well and we never had to chase a high total. But with the current bowling lineup we have to score big totals - 217 in 32 overs, 270 and 289. We simply can't get Aussies out cheaply and our best bet is to somehow get the better of SL. Now if we can't limit Aussies batting lineup when apparently every other team has managed to do so (refer OP), the next best bet is to have additional firepower in your batting lineup coz no matter which bowlers we play, we end up conceding a big total. But the concern I have is that the lineup that played yesterday can't even score a big total even in sub-continent with no Sehwag and Yuvi, and with Jaddu at 7.

[CG]

Fair point. At least on the earlier Aus tour we had a better bowling lineup with Ishant and PK bowling much better and taking early wkts. Even Irfan was bowling well and we never had to chase a high total. But with the current bowling lineup we have to score big totals - 217 in 32 overs, 270 and 289. We simply can't get Aussies out cheaply and our best bet is to somehow get the better of SL. Now if we can't limit Aussies batting lineup when apparently every other team has managed to do so (refer OP), the next best bet is to have additional firepower in your batting lineup coz no matter which bowlers we play, we end up conceding a big total. But the concern I have is that the lineup that played yesterday can't even score a big total even in sub-continent with no Sehwag and Yuvi, and with Jaddu at 7.

Forgetting sreesanth.:icflove:

[Ultimate_Game]

You forgot the Most important Issue Ug- CAPTAINCY

That's fair enough. Playing Jaddu as a batsman and not giving Umesh a bowl till 23rd over are mind-boggling decisions to say the least. I was thinking about it and the only reason I didn't add is that overall Dhoni's captaincy in odis has been ok (barring yesterday's game). In Tests he has been way too defensive and predictable.

[Ultimate_Game]

Forgetting sreesanth.:icflove:

Apologies to Sreesnath. Yup, he was pretty good that time as well. That bowling lineup was so much better and incisive.

[CG]

That's fair enough. Playing Jaddu as a batsman and not giving Umesh a bowl till 23rd over are mind-boggling decisions to say the least. I was thinking about it and the only reason I didn't add is that overall Dhoni's captaincy in odis has been ok (barring yesterday's game). In Tests he has been way too defensive and predictable.

He captaincy has regressed in last year,First he backed chawla in the world cup and now jaddu,Before this series he says we want to give rohit a chance and rotate seniors but its raina who has underperfomed in last 2 series but he seems to have secure spot and his love for jaddu is well known.

[saneindian]

At the same stage (after 5 matches) in the last CB series, we had won one match and there were two washouts. It was in the last 4-5 matches that we we really upped our performance. Compared to that, we are placed better this time.

[Ultimate_Game]

At the same stage (after 5 matches) in the last CB series' date=' we had won one match and there were two washouts. It was in the last 4-5 matches that we we really upped our performance. Compared to that, we are placed better this time.[/quote'] Not really as we have the lowest NRR which can't be made up at this stage and we have conceded bonus points twice while not managing one with even SL managing it. Essentially we have to win 2 out of the last 3 games to get into the finals.

[Ultimate_Game]

He captaincy has regressed in last year' date='First he backed chawla in the world cup and now jaddu,Before this series he says we want to give rohit a chance and rotate seniors but its raina who has underperfomed in last 2 series but he seems to have secure spot and his love for jaddu is well known.[/quote'] I wouldn't judge his captaincy solely on the players he has backed. Every captain has his own left field picks and players he trusts more than others. Under his captaincy he has also backed players like Kohli and Raina which turned out good for us. No matter which players you back you will leave some people unhappy and I accept that. But more mind boggling was the decision to play jaddu and not bowl him, or not bowling Umesh till 23rd over. In that case why play them at all? We could have gone with Tiwary and Ashwin in that case giving us a better bowling lineup and added batting depth.

[saneindian]

Not really as we have the lowest NRR which can't be made up at this stage and we have conceded bonus points twice while not managing one with even SL managing it. Essentially we have to win 2 out of the last 3 games to get into the finals.

Happened the last time as well. 2 washouts, a loss with bonus points conceded to the Aussies, a loss to Sl as well..8 points after 5 matches, SL were at 6 after 5 matches. But we did turn it around in the later stages first against the Lankanas and then vs the Aussies. Having said that, we cannot afford another slip up vs the Lankans in the next match. Have to win it somehow and get the 4 points.