Dravid's captaincy.

[gator]

Dravid is a professional. He will not let his emotions rule him on the field. He will always lead by example. That is the sort of man he is. How often have we seen Dravid loose his cool? Not a lot of times have we. His concentration and will is unwavering. That is what makes him a true great.

tht is indeed a trademark of a great batsman.... but thts not wat the title of the thread suggests...

[Chandan]

Gator, Just do a favour for me. If you think, Dravid is not good at captaincy, could you just list his short-comings while leading so that we can stop the discussion from wandering off to non-relevent things?

[gator]

Tactically he has been poor before but he has done a fairly decent job in test cricket so far. India has been repeatedly winning tests overseas and I don't see a necessity to change anything.

c'mon Ravs... tactically, he was very average to poor... no aggression, no motivational skills, not much say in team selection... these wins were more of a coincidence...

[gator]

Gator, Just do a favour for me. If you think, Dravid is not good at captaincy, could you just list his short-comings while leading so that we can stop the discussion from wandering off to non-relevent things?

its all listed out in this thread...

[gator]

GIB -> one can see that Dravid does not like to lose....and any person who wants to win always...will have a never say die attitude..which will come out automatically..though in different forms...

in his case, it is displayed in his batting... and thts wat he should be... the leading batter of the team...

[Chandan]

its all listed out in this thread...

It all got muddled during the discussion. That is why a fresh request!:regular_smile:

[gator]

It all got muddled during the discussion. That is why a fresh request!:regular_smile:

the OP explains it all...

[Chandan]

Strategically, Dravid has been average so far. Definitely, he had a great run in odis for a year, but i would attribute tht run mainly to Dhoni, Pathan and Yuvi's terrific form and some of Chappell's ideas and some of More's selections.... yes, I do credit Chappell a little. But this "got out of jail" comment has really riled me and quite a few folks.. This is prolly the last straw as far as i am concerned, wen it comes to supporting his captaincy... Compare this to Dada's retort in a similar scenario - "WTF is a moral victory - do you maintain stats for tht, or jus for wins/losses" - " we are gonna come hard at them in the next two tests" Strategically, Dada has been average himself. But what brought him success was the big brother and fighting spirit he inculcates... I can almost bet, Dravid would have said something like "England deserved to win, but yuvi and kaif got us out of jail" at the end of the natwest finals in 2002"... Compare that to wat Dada did... He removed his shirt and twirled it and basically stopped short of pointing a middle finger at the whole Lords snob-crowd.... As a player, which one of those actions would have motivated you?? I am not sure, it will be wise, to give the captaincy back to Ganguly. But I want to get Dravid fired from captaincy and hunt for another "in your face" fighter to carry and motivate his men... The fact is, Dravid wants to be remembered as a gentleman and be liked by people from all countries and all walks of life.... almost like the pomeranian who will even go and sit on the robber's lap to get some cuddles. What we need is a PitBull. A pitbull is not the biggest dog, but the most courageous fighter who everyone will fear...

Only one shortcoming comes out of the this: he is not 'in your face' kind of confrontational captain. You think this is the sole shortcoming?

[gator]

ok... here are the short-coming in a more concise manner for u, Chandan... Dravid lacks a lot in inspiring, motivating, instilling confidence, imbibing spirit in the team... he lacks in providing self-belief... he loses in almost all mind-games... he has a defeatist attitude.... as great a player as he is, he has a servile attitude... a meek captain... does not make up these short-comings through tactical superiority either.... very average, tactically... take it from me, the great leaders are the one who motivate people to perform a notch higher than their comfort level... ... Dravid in essence has a poosy attitude and the best evidence is " we got out of jail" comment...

[Chandan]

ok... here are the short-coming in a more concise manner for u, Chandan... Dravid lacks a lot in inspiring, motivating, instilling confidence, imbibing spirit in the team... he lacks in providing self-belief... he loses in almost all mind-games... he has a defeatist attitude.... as great a player as he is, he has a servile attitude... a meek captain... does not make up these short-comings through tactical superiority either.... very average, tactically... take it from me, the great leaders are the one who motivate people to perform a notch higher than their comfort level... ... Dravid in essence has a poosy attitude and the best evidence is " we got out of jail" comment...

Thanks for summing it up. I sometimes think that Dravid has too much faith in his team-mates. In fact much more than they actually desrve. The example is how he set a 7-2 field for Zaheer the first day, thinking that he'd bowl like McGrath with impeccable line and length. Unfortunately, Zaheer is not that capable, hence his bowling went awry at that point and we didn't get wickets with the new ball. Motivational factor: I agree that he should have played a big part in calming the nerves of the rookie bowlers, if that indeed was the problem. But that didn't happen either. Planning: He didn't seem to have a plan for the opposition batsmen, to exploit their weakness. He just seemed to be going by the law that if bowler bowled well, and fielder caught well, they'd dismiss the batsmen. Are we missing an intelligent and tactically shrewd coach here? Reactive: Most of the time he acted only when the horse had bolted. For example why wasn't Zaheer removed from bowling immediately because he was leaking runs? Why wasn't a plan handed to Sree seeing that there were so many lefties in English rank? Field setting: Why don't we have a third-man right from the beginning which will stop converting edges into fours? Our bowlers are not not very accurate and it is not a rocket science. Also seeing how Cook clipped anything off his pads, why did we not have a field setting to trap him there or to stop him scoring heaps from that shot? I have many more points. But I'll stop here, at the moment.

[gator]

Thanks for summing it up. I sometimes think that Dravid has too much faith in his team-mates. In fact much more than they actually desrve. The example is how he set a 7-2 field for Zaheer the first day, thinking that he'd bowl like McGrath with impeccable line and length. Unfortunately, Zaheer is not that capable, hence his bowling went awry at that point and we didn't get wickets with the new ball. Motivational factor: I agree that he should have played a big part in calming the nerves of the rookie bowlers, if that indeed was the problem. But that didn't happen either. Planning: He didn't seem to have a plan for the opposition batsmen, to exploit their weakness. He just seemed to be going by the law that if bowler bowled well, and fielder caught well, they'd dismiss the batsmen. Are we missing an intelligent and tactically shrewd coach here? Reactive: Most of the time he acted only when the horse had bolted. For example why wasn't Zaheer removed from bowling immediately because he was leaking runs? Why wasn't a plan handed to Sree seeing that there were so many lefties in English rank? Field setting: Why don't we have a third-man right from the beginning which will stop converting edges into fours? Our bowlers are not not very accurate and it is not a rocket science. Also seeing how Cook clipped anything off his pads, why did we not have a field setting to trap him there or to stop him scoring heaps from that shot? I have many more points. But I'll stop here, at the moment.

nice points...

I sometimes think that Dravid has too much faith in his team-mates. In fact much more than they actually desrve. The example is how he set a 7-2 field for Zaheer the first day, thinking that he'd bowl like McGrath with impeccable line and length. Unfortunately, Zaheer is not that capable, hence his bowling went awry at that point and we didn't get wickets with the new ball.

totally bad captaincy... no question of faith or trust... he needs to account for everything in his decisions... if Zak is a bowler who is not mcgrathesque, it is stupidity to set a field for mcgrath and get zak to bowl for it...

[MundaPakistani]

Thanks for summing it up. I sometimes think that Dravid has too much faith in his team-mates. In fact much more than they actually desrve. The example is how he set a 7-2 field for Zaheer the first day, thinking that he'd bowl like McGrath with impeccable line and length. Unfortunately, Zaheer is not that capable, hence his bowling went awry at that point and we didn't get wickets with the new ball. Motivational factor: I agree that he should have played a big part in calming the nerves of the rookie bowlers, if that indeed was the problem. But that didn't happen either. Planning: He didn't seem to have a plan for the opposition batsmen, to exploit their weakness. He just seemed to be going by the law that if bowler bowled well, and fielder caught well, they'd dismiss the batsmen. Are we missing an intelligent and tactically shrewd coach here? Reactive: Most of the time he acted only when the horse had bolted. For example why wasn't Zaheer removed from bowling immediately because he was leaking runs? Why wasn't a plan handed to Sree seeing that there were so many lefties in English rank? Field setting: Why don't we have a third-man right from the beginning which will stop converting edges into fours? Our bowlers are not not very accurate and it is not a rocket science. Also seeing how Cook clipped anything off his pads, why did we not have a field setting to trap him there or to stop him scoring heaps from that shot? I have many more points. But I'll stop here, at the moment.

1- I don't think IND is missing a coach...do you see a significant change in Dravid's captaincy since Greg's time? i certainly dont! 2- You need to have some confidence in your most experienced bowler and just because he goes for a couple of fours that doesn't mean that you immediately remove him from the bowling attack. 3- Why do you want to set field for bad bowling Chandan?

[gator]

3- Why do you want to set field for bad bowling Chandan?

if u dont, ur team will pay for it...

[MundaPakistani]

As for Dravid issue i think he is selfless, determined and wants to lead from the front. Now having said that i don't think he is a good tactician and has made a lot of major mistakes in the last 18 months or so.

[MundaPakistani]

if u dont' date=' ur team will pay for it...[/quote'] Why do you say that? there is no way you are going to get wickets of balls that are heading down the leg side so why waste a fielder there when you can have the same fielder in much more attacking position?

[Chandan]

As for Dravid issue i think he is selfless' date=' determined and wants to lead from the front. Now having said that i don't think he is a good tactician and has made a lot of major mistakes in the last 18 months or so.[/quote'] Agree with each point of yours, Faisal. I would say that Dravid has improved from where he began but still a lot is left to be desired! I would set the field for poor bowling, for ex a thirdman because run-leaking would be arrested to a certain extent. Had Cook been stopped from playing that shot, he would have to play and look for runs somewhere else. In that case it'd be easier to trap him.

[Chandan]

Why do you say that? there is no way you are going to get wickets of balls that are heading down the leg side so why waste a fielder there when you can have the same fielder in much more attacking position?

Did you see Jaffer's dismissal in the second inning?

[Chandan]

1- I don't think IND is missing a coach...do you see a significant change in Dravid's captaincy since Greg's time? i certainly dont! 2- You need to have some confidence in your most experienced bowler and just because he goes for a couple of fours that doesn't mean that you immediately remove him from the bowling attack. 3- Why do you want to set field for bad bowling Chandan?

1.I do think that India is lacking in planning. Hence the need for a coach.I just do not want to discuss Chappell anymore. 2.Too much confidence, especially more than the player deserves is not good. And it was not just a couple of fours. England had raced to 76 in just the first hour. There is no point in continuing with the struggling bowler if he is costing the team heavily and no need to think that he'd be capable for a field set for extremely accurate bowlers. 3. Because to expect that an Indian bowler to bowl 6 good deliveries in an over, in a batting friendly condition, is foolhardy. And the captain must limit the damage.

[gator]

.I do think that India is lacking in planning. Hence the need for a coach.I just do not want to discuss Chappell anymore.

true, but still, the captain has to inspire his men to perform a notch over their comfort level, as i had mentoned earlier and Dravid has clearly proven to be a failure...

[Chandan]

true' date=' but still, the captain has to inspire his men to perform a notch over their comfort level, as i had mentoned earlier and Dravid has clearly proven to be a failure...[/quote'] How according to you is a captain supposed to inspire his men ? For example, suppose if you were the captain instead of Dravid, what would you have done?