Dravid's captaincy.

[gator]

Strategically, Dravid has been average so far. Definitely, he had a great run in odis for a year, but i would attribute tht run mainly to Dhoni, Pathan and Yuvi's terrific form and some of Chappell's ideas and some of More's selections.... yes, I do credit Chappell a little. But this "got out of jail" comment has really riled me and quite a few folks.. This is prolly the last straw as far as i am concerned, wen it comes to supporting his captaincy... Compare this to Dada's retort in a similar scenario - "WTF is a moral victory - do you maintain stats for tht, or jus for wins/losses" - " we are gonna come hard at them in the next two tests" Strategically, Dada has been average himself. But what brought him success was the big brother and fighting spirit he inculcates... I can almost bet, Dravid would have said something like "England deserved to win, but yuvi and kaif got us out of jail" at the end of the natwest finals in 2002"... Compare that to wat Dada did... He removed his shirt and twirled it and basically stopped short of pointing a middle finger at the whole Lords snob-crowd.... As a player, which one of those actions would have motivated you?? I am not sure, it will be wise, to give the captaincy back to Ganguly. But I want to get Dravid fired from captaincy and hunt for another "in your face" fighter to carry and motivate his men... The fact is, Dravid wants to be remembered as a gentleman and be liked by people from all countries and all walks of life.... almost like the pomeranian who will even go and sit on the robber's lap to get some cuddles. What we need is a PitBull. A pitbull is not the biggest dog, but the most courageous fighter who everyone will fear...

[kumble_rocks]

Good Post although I don't see any substitute for Dravid as regards to captaincy. I guess he is the "best" among the worst for now.

[Bumper]

He is a soft captain. But no one will give a rat's a$$ about what he says to the media, if we keep winning. And for that, the middle order must come together. India has always been a batting team. We post big totals, then let our pacers and Kumble prey on the opponents. Thats how we have won in the past. If the middle order doesnt click, Dravid can wave his shirt, trousers & lungi, he wont look good.

[gator]

He is a soft captain. But no one will give a rat's a$$ about what he says to the media, if we keep winning. And for that, the middle order must come together. India has always been a batting team. We post big totals, then let our pacers and Kumble prey on the opponents. Thats how we have won in the past. If the middle order doesnt click, Dravid can wave his shirt, trousers & lungi, he wont look good.

bumps... motivation and inspiration are under-rated.... I believe, Imran was another example of a captain who brought out the fighting spirit from his boys... jus compare the pakistani team under imran to the team under inzi... the paaki team those days had a mongrel attitude.... they would snarl, kick and bite... the team under Inzi looked like a bunch of poosies....

[Ram]

As a team member , you would want the leader to be a sane ,non-emotional , non-biased person who has a lid on things. Not someone who blows hot and cold every now and then. Leave aside theatrics Gats , the Lords shirt incident has made for dramatic T.V , but trust me , that is not the captain i want. I want my captain to lead by example , not by emotions. Actions speak louder than words. Dont be carried away by what you see on T.V And anybody here who think Dravid is not as tough a cookie as Ganguly ,need to get their IQ tested. That man has played some of the most vital innings in the history of Indian cricket , when the team needed it most , under ridiculosuly tough circumstances, unlike Ganguly , who has an almost ***** attitude.

[gator]

Mars-man.... if I was Yuvraj or Kaif and after I helped my team lift the Natwest trophy and my captain, like a small puppy comes out and meekly starts his speech by saying, England deserves this cup... Yuvraj/kaif got us out of jail.... I will feel like slapping the shyte out of him....

[gator]

As a team member , you would want the leader to be a sane ,non-emotional , non-biased person who has a lid on things. Not someone who blows hot and cold every now and then.

i didnt call for a blowhot and blow cold guy.... u r attributing things tht i have never said.... Ranatunga, Imran, Ganguly,are prime examples of how to lead guys from the subcontinent.... All 3 of them were big brotherly and tolerate no nonsense from anyone... It is not a coincidence tht their respective teams had the best period under them,...

[gator]

And anybody here who think Dravid is not as tough a cookie as Ganguly ,need to get their IQ tested. That man has played some of the most vital innings in the history of Indian cricket , when the team needed it most , under ridiculosuly tough circumstances, unlike Ganguly , who has an almost ***** attitude.

displaying mental toughness as a player is different from inculcating mental toughness among the men you lead... remember u aint leading schoolboys... wen u aspire to lead a bunch of men, u got to be a real MAN....

[Ram]

Mars-man.... if I was Yuvraj or Kaif and after I helped my team lift the Natwest trophy and my captain' date=' like a small puppy comes out and meekly starts his speech by saying, England deserves this cup... Yuvraj/kaif got us out of jail.... I will feel like slapping the shyte out of him....[/quote'] Gats , Imagine this scenario . You are the captain of the Indian cricket team which got lucky with 9 wickets down and rain saved you. A journalist asks you how you feel . What would your answer be ? Something unnecessarily belligerent or a few lines expressing relief at your luck ? which is what Dravid did. Besides , If Dravid was the captain in the natwest finals , i am DEAD SURE he wouldnt have said " England deserved it more than us" . His cricketing knowledge/experience is more than all of ours' put together for him to said that about an one day game, in which two of your recognised batsman come up with a match-winning partnership. So there goes your allegation

[Holysmoke]

Mars-man.... if I was Yuvraj or Kaif and after I helped my team lift the Natwest trophy and my captain' date=' like a small puppy comes out and meekly starts his speech by saying, England deserves this cup... Yuvraj/kaif got us out of jail.... I will feel like slapping the shyte out of him....[/quote']bs now what you're trying to say is pure hypothesis. remember.. dravid said that when we narrowly avoided defeat and managed to draw a test match because of rain. what ganguly did was when we "won" the final. keep things in perspective. :D

[gator]

bs now what you're trying to say is pure hypothesis. remember.. dravid said that when we narrowly avoided defeat and managed to draw a test match because of rain.

until it really happens, ur guess is as good as mine... either one can call the others' BS... i foresee Meek Dravid talking something to tht effect though...

[Holysmoke]

i foresee Meek Dravid talking something to tht effect though...

u forsee him saying that england deserved to win the trophy.. when we WIN the trophy.. with excellent performances by kaif and yuvraj? really? I'm sorry gator, I really thought you knew more about Indian cricket and its captain .

[gator]

Gats , Imagine this scenario . You are the captain of the Indian cricket team which got lucky with 9 wickets down and rain saved you. A journalist asks you how you feel . What would your answer be ? Something unnecessarily belligerent or a few lines expressing relief at your luck ? which is what Dravid did.

A few lines expressing relief at ur luck????? WTF??? no wonder, u dont mind him as our captain.....:hysterical::hysterical: u r on an overseas tour leading ur men, not in a casino playing roulette to credit ur luck in the media....

[Ram]

displaying mental toughness as a player is different from inculcating mental toughness among the men you lead... remember u aint leading schoolboys... wen u aspire to lead a bunch of men' date=' u got to be a real MAN....[/quote'] Precisely. You are leading a team of mature professionals , not teen-agers. The best way then is to lead by example , like Imran did , Ranatunga da. By scoring the most runs , or taking the most wickets. Not by useless show of emotions.

i didnt call for a blowhot and blow cold guy.... u r attributing things tht i have never said.... Ranatunga' date=' Imran, Ganguly,are prime examples of how to lead guys from the subcontinent.... All 3 of them were big brotherly and tolerate no nonsense from anyone... It is not a coincidence tht their respective teams had the best period under them,...[/quote'] tolerate no nonsense ? especially when the captain himself has proven record of having an aloof attitude coupled with lazyness ? and one has repeatedly shown on T.V that he doesnt have the balls to deal with short-pitched bowling ?

[gator]

u forsee him saying that england deserved to win the trophy.. when we WIN the trophy.. with excellent performances by kaif and yuvraj? really? I'm sorry gator, I really thought you knew more about Indian cricket and its captain .

listen... it was an exaggeration, obviously... but it was drive home a point... i am sure, u get it...

[gator]

Quote: Originally Posted by gator displaying mental toughness as a player is different from inculcating mental toughness among the men you lead... remember u aint leading schoolboys... wen u aspire to lead a bunch of men, u got to be a real MAN.... Precisely. You are leading a team of mature professionals , not teen-agers. The best way then is to lead by example , like Imran did , Ranatunga da. By scoring the most runs , or taking the most wickets. Not by useless show of emotions.

wrong again... Ranatunga was not the leading scorer for his team when his team was most successful.... Imran was not the leading wicket taker when pakistan lifted the 92 WC.... They inculcated fighting spirit in everyone of their men and made them take their game to the next level....

[Holysmoke]

listen... it was an exaggeration' date=' obviously... but it was drive home a point... i am sure, u get it...[/quote']yea.. but seriously.. u do understand the difference. In one case.. we have just meekly been saved from the jaws of defeat by the rain..only to draw it. and on the other hand.. we've faught valiantly when all chips were down.. to win it. Ofcouse, even someone like dravid would have different opinions. I agree he is meek.. and doesnt have the josh that dada had.. but we dont have a better option right now. I wouldnt want poor yuvraj/dhoni to become captain now and get involved in the politics any more than they already are.

[Ram]

A few lines expressing relief at ur luck????? WTF??? no wonder, u dont mind him as our captain.....:hysterical::hysterical: u r on an overseas tour leading ur men, not in a casino playing roulette to credit ur luck in the media....

You either mis-interpreted my statement , or didnt understand it. If i were captain , watching nervously as the clock ticks by to the close of play with my team 9 down , and when play is called off , that on the first match of the series , my first reaction would be relief , not belligerence. I would like to think most people would react the same way in that situation too. Please dont confuse mental toughness and "manliness" to visons of a tough talking and a topless captain waving his shirt in the balcony of lords. I think all of us are too old for that.

[Dhondy]

until it really happens' date=' ur guess is as good as mine... either one can call the others' BS... i foresee Meek Dravid talking something to tht effect though...[/quote'] You won't get away with that here, Gats. Defamatory, slanderous...that's the second time you have cast aspersions on a true Indian great in two days. If I didn't know you better, I'd have thought you are Anu_D in disguise.

[Ram]

yea.. but seriously.. u do understand the difference. In one case.. we have just meekly been saved from the jaws of defeat by the rain..only to draw it. and on the other hand.. we've faught valiantly when all chips were down.. to win it. Ofcouse, even someone like dravid would have different opinions. I agree he is meek.. and doesnt have the josh that dada had.. but we dont have a better option right now. I wouldnt want poor yuvraj/dhoni to become captain now and get involved in the politics any more than they already are.

Lead by example doesnt just mean be the leading run scorer or the wicket taker. He must contribute majorly with his speciality , which is what i meant. At a point , Ganguly was a walking wicket.