Dravid's captaincy.

[yoda]

in other words, if u ran a company.... ur role should be confined to hiring, deciding what role they are going to play and thts it... let me ask u this.... do u get bonuses, promotions, other incentives at work??? why have these incentives, right??? u r paid to do ur job and tht alone should be enuf motivation...

he is not the CEO of indian cricket. as a captain you can expect him to do a little bit of cheerleading, but looks like you are expecting a tony robbins or a dr phil in addition to being able to bat at international level.

[gator]

Gator, you will be eating some serious crow by the end of this series, believe me, mate. You've gone way beyond the pale, reading too much into an innocent sentence, and spouting some utter nonsense about a great man. You obviously admire the sort of folks who can talk the talk but can't walk the walk. There's nothing more to say on this topic. Your intransigence has been shocking, banal and utterly off putting. I don't reckon you know your cricket at all.

wow... tht was a scathing attack on me, Dhonds... i dont think, i am attacking his cricket skills or greatness... i was one of the first to raise a flag tht Ganguly should be booted from both captaincy and team.... yes, i did eat crow for doing tht in the other forum... and i will be the first to raise a flag tht Dravid should be booted out from captaincy and i dont mind eating crow on this forum either...

I don't reckon you know your cricket at all

u know me better...

[gator]

he is not the CEO of indian cricket. as a captain you can expect him to do a little bit of cheerleading' date=' but looks like you are expecting a tony robbins or a dr phil in addition to being able to bat at international level.[/quote'] naive of u think of only 2 extreme roles for a captain... either a psychologist or a cheerleader... u prolly never bothered to follow history.... how a courageous and motivational commander can change the odds of a battle with the same set of soldiers....

[gator]

Bottomline you make maximum out of your resources. Which is why Stephen Fleming is a great captain. Which is why Ganguly is rated ahead of RD, which is why Ranatunga is widely celebrated in Sri Lanka while Dravid gets criticized by Indian fans.

so easily and nicely put... oh wait, u r gonna eat crow for making this simple but wise statement...

[yoda]

naive of u think of only 2 extreme roles for a captain... either a psychologist or a cheerleader... u prolly never bothered to follow history.... how a courageous and motivational commander can change the odds of a battle with the same set of soldiers....

what history is that where two commanders performed differently with the same set of soldiers simply because of difference in courage and motivation? war strategy and planning are more important than motivational speeches. soldiers are all courageous. you can't teach them that at the battlefront.

[yoda]

Bottomline you make maximum out of your resources.

Exactly what dravid did by getting england bowled out for under 300 in both innings with 2 rookie bowlers.

[gs]

Exactly what dravid did by getting england bowled out for under 300 in both innings with 2 rookie bowlers.

plus match saving 4th innings knocks from a makeshift opener and a technically challenged baseball club swinging wicketkeeper :confused_smile:

[gator]

Exactly what dravid did by getting england bowled out for under 300 in both innings with 2 rookie bowlers.

wen he should have bundled them out for under 200 on both occassions given he had 3 bowlers bowling over 85 mph with excellent potential and supposedly overseas-tiger Kumble.......

[Lurker]

so easily and nicely put... oh wait' date=' u r gonna eat crow for making this simple but wise statement...[/quote'] Gator. I think Dhondy was just a tad upset over your criticism of Dravid, not very different from me mind you. Else he doesn't really go personal at all. That aside, I seriously wonder as to how we fans defend our cricketing heroes. I mean we have all been raised in India, many of us with bit of struggle during our childhood, and even later on in life. It would be fair to say most of us, if not all, were NOT born with a silver spoon. But we all worked hard in a way and generally it has all worked out for us. We didnt go running after excuses, "Look ma he cracked IIT cos he had XYZ coaching, I couldnt afford that" or "He grew up in South Bombay surrounded with chicks while I grew up in remote North Eastern India with 2 hour electricity a day". I mean how come we are so unassuming, almost harsh on ourselves while we let go of our cricketing Gods scott free?? It bothers me as an Indian because all a normal Indian has/had was one single chance. If you effed up Matriculation, kiss Engineering, Medical whatever goodbye. If we could deliver it then, mostly by sheer hardwork, how come these primma donnas with millions of dollars in endorsements, access to fitness and latest training equipments, coaches, books, media etc etc - fail to deliver the basics? Why is it that teams like NZ is as potent, if not more, than India today? And why is it that South Africa with little cricketing heroes since 1990 still boasts of success rate almost twice to us?? xxxx

[ranj]

Why do we put such a high commodity on Dravid's public statements? I'm willing to bet what he says in team meetings is a world away from the fairly cliched rhetoric he dishes out to the media. I'd take it with a big bucket of salt.

[gator]

Gator. I think Dhondy was just a tad upset over your criticism of Dravid, not very different from me mind you. Else he doesn't really go personal at all. That aside, I seriously wonder as to how we fans defend our cricketing heroes. I mean we have all been raised in India, many of us with bit of struggle during our childhood, and even later on in life. It would be fair to say most of us, if not all, were NOT born with a silver spoon. But we all worked hard in a way and generally it has all worked out for us. We didnt go running after excuses, "Look ma he cracked IIT cos he had XYZ coaching, I couldnt afford that" or "He grew up in South Bombay surrounded with chicks while I grew up in remote North Eastern India with 2 hour electricity a day". I mean how come we are so unassuming, almost harsh on ourselves while we let go of our cricketing Gods scott free?? It bothers me as an Indian because all a normal Indian has/had was one single chance. If you effed up Matriculation, kiss Engineering, Medical whatever goodbye. If we could deliver it then, mostly by sheer hardwork, how come these primma donnas with millions of dollars in endorsements, access to fitness and latest training equipments, coaches, books, media etc etc - fail to deliver the basics? Why is it that teams like NZ is as potent, if not more, than India today? And why is it that South Africa with little cricketing heroes since 1990 still boasts of success rate almost twice to us?? xxxx

the answers lie within us, Lurks... mediocre expectations... if azz aint on fire, we wont move.... we worked our butt off to get where we are.... how many of u will admit tht ur career stagnated for the past few years and u have slipped into a comfort zone... many of us will.... same goes out with our cricketers too.... they come into the team after a blazing form in U19 or ranji trophy... establish themselves and then they slip into a comfort zone..... Viru will say, if i can average over 40, why should i work my azz off to sort out my weakness against short ball... obviously, there are exceptions like kumble, dravid, sachin(for a long time).... look at a player like Aggy.... he so easily can lift his game through sheer hardwork to get to 145kph consistently with good swing.... no, he is happy with status quo.... play some odis... maintain current form and fitness, good money... all set....

[gator]

Why do we put such a high commodity on Dravid's public statements? I'm willing to bet what he says in team meetings is a world away from the fairly cliched rhetoric he dishes out to the media. I'd take it with a big bucket of salt.

regardless, he has exposed the team underbelly by making such a comment, instead of wresting back some initiative from the self-obsessed english media.... he was an embarrassment.... atleast, i cant stand this mentality... never supported it and never will...

[yoda]

wen he should have bundled them out for under 200 on both occassions given he had 3 bowlers bowling over 85 mph with excellent potential and supposedly overseas-tiger Kumble.......

why 200? why not 150 or even 100 for that matter.

[Lurker]

we worked our butt off to get where we are.... how many of u will admit tht ur career stagnated for the past few years and u have slipped into a comfort zone... many of us will.... same goes out with our cricketers too.... they come into the team after a blazing form in U19 or ranji trophy... establish themselves and then they slip into a comfort zone..... Viru will say, if i can average over 40, why should i work my azz off to sort out my weakness against short ball... obviously, there are exceptions like kumble, dravid, sachin(for a long time).... look at a player like Aggy.... he so easily can lift his game through sheer hardwork to get to 145kph consistently with good swing.... no, he is happy with status quo.... play some odis... maintain current form and fitness, good money... all set....

Fair point that. Frankly speaking I did the most amount of work, or learnt most in my first 5 years of career. After that the graph has been on the downside if I am honest. The funny part of course is that the salary curve has gone up. Not dissimilar to the cricketers in that sense. One key difference though is that I still need to deliver wherever I am or I would be kicked out faster than Donald Trump could say, "You are fired". Alas it doesnt seem to be with our cricketers. Imagine you not doing anything substantial at work for 2-3 years and then telling your company, "I am working cos I loveee working here", yep am talking about Sachin and his "love" for the game his recent performance not withstanding. Indeed players like Aggy, Sehwag, Pathan can be put in this comfort zone bracket rather easily. xxx

[gs]

Imagine you not doing anything substantial at work for 2-3 years and then telling your company' date=' "[i']I am working cos I loveee working here", yep am talking about Sachin and his "love" for the game his recent performance not withstanding.

Talking about love on a lighter note, Laxman's love for a WC opportunity is the mother of all love :D

[Lurker]

Talking about love on a lighter note' date=' Laxman's love for a WC opportunity is the mother of all love :D[/quote'] As is his propensity to fall forward and get clean bowled, then get up with a deer-caught-in-headlight expression. One of these days I am gonna get inside my TV, take that uprooted stump and either shove it in his you know where or poke myself in both eyes.

[ranj]

regardless' date=' he has exposed the team underbelly by making such a comment, instead of wresting back some initiative from the self-obsessed english media.... he was an embarrassment.... atleast, i cant stand this mentality... never supported it and never will...[/quote'] I'll be honest, you're being quite the drama queen here, Gator. You don't win test matches in tabloids. Claiming that they didn't get out of jail (which they did, by the by), wouldn't have made an iota of difference to media perceptions of the test match, and it wont make a difference to the outcome of this series. It's almost as if you expect Dravid to pacify your own insecurities through public bluff and bluster. What he says to the media means squat. I'm not sure what English media you're reading, too. If it's tabloids, then the fact that the drivel of John Etheridge, Peter Hayter and their ilk hold such a profound sense of importance to you doesn't hold you in good stead. It's the equivalent of a Jew reading 'Mein Kampf' hoping to hear good things about his race, then being upset at the whole "master race" concept. British tabloids are good for two things...wiping your ass if you run out of toilet paper, and, umm...well, that's pretty much it. I'm struggling to comprehend your line of thought here, dude.

[Chandan]

Chandan you have to realize that Dravid has now led India in 10 Test series, and atleast 8 where he has led in 2 or more Tests. Enough time for fans to make a decision upon. Gator's argument could encompass what happened in a particular test but it is equally prudent to realize that the gentleman in question has been leading for a long while. And if you agree that a captain could do what I suggest before the series starts, do tell me how many times have Dravid actually done anything like that? xxx

Pathan: Kicked out from the middle of the series Sehwag : finally dropped after getting captain's backing one too many times Munaf: Not selected to play a test, to suggest that the team wants him fit Kaif: dropped after getting too many opportunities to salvage his career Ganguly: dropped from the team after 2005 fiasco where his personal performance was not hot. Yuvraj: Unable to make himself an automatic choice in test because his performance wasn't too hot in the 3 test series where he played every match bar the 1st test vs England at Nagpur. Zaheer: had to work hard on fitness and rhythm for more than year before he could force his way back into the team. Raina: dropped from the ODI team to work on his weakness. So the evidence doesn't tell me that he is a soft person. He has taken few hard decisions. But only because of the media hype they were projected as Chappell's decisions rather than his.

[Chandan]

not necessarily... a captain's role is not limited to on a ground in the middle of a test match alone... Lurker's points are all valid and good points... u r asking, as if the solution is as simple as "to wear a blue underwear" and the problem will be solved.... Leadership is very complex.... the effect of good or bad leadership is easy to spot, but being one is not easy... there are many who are born with good leadership skills, while others are not... Not just in sports, even in the corporate world, people who display better leadership skills are promoted more often than ones who are extremely talented in their work alone.... Dravid is p1ss-poor in leadership skills....

See. I understand that he has committed a number of tactical errors and I don't rate him as a good tactician. I underlined my points a few posts back. It is this "inspire" bit which I'm unable to understand, Hence was asking you, if you could help me in getting it.

[Chandan]

and Lurks, i may add one more point to urs.... 5. Lose tht facking poosy attitude...

Agree.