Indian batting - Pataudi trophy

[The Outsider]

PS for Lurker : Can you also find me one article or comment by a respected cricketer/writer who agrees with your point of view of Tendulkar's performance in England being crappy?

[Holysmoke]

I won't say Tendulkar was crappy but was well below his potential. Don't let your ill feelings cloud your judgment Lurker' date=' you are way better than that.[/quote'] QFT

[Bumper]

Yes. Lets question Karthik' date=' Jaffer , Dravid , Laxman too then.[/quote'] That would be a relevant question if Jaffer & Karthik were middle order bats who are taking Yuvraj's place and if Dravid were to average 32 in 25 tests or if Laxman were a shoo in ahead of a Yuvraj, like Tendulkar. And in Laxman's case he gets dropped for Yuvraj many a times, inspite of averaging better than Tendulkar. So the question is far from relevant.

[Bumper]

Bumper' date=' the first innings at Trent Bridge and here at the Oval were nothing if not tricky situations. You'll obviously try to trivialize them and spin them because of your sustained "Drop Tendulkar" campaign but each and every report by experts and commentators praised those two crucial innings.[/quote'] Shwetabh, i am not suggesting we should drop Tendulkar, after this series. I have already granted him a rope of two more series. But if you are gonna tell me that the two 50s he scored where under challenging conditions, i beg to differ. Neither the bowlers, or the conditions, nor the pressure of the game situation contributed to the degree of difficulty. The two innings he scored 50s atleast 4 other batsman scored 50 as well. So tough luck, trying to justify them as tricky situations. However, I'd agree that he played a good SUPPORT role for our main batsmen to bat around him.

[The Outsider]

Yuvraj, Yuvraj, Yuvraj!!!:banghead::banghead: The guy has proven that he is useless in test matches on so many occasions. Can't believe people want the second best middle order batsman of the last 2 overseas series dropped for a proven failure.

[Bumper]

Yuvraj, Yuvraj, Yuvraj!!!:banghead::banghead: The guy has proven that he is useless in test matches on so many occasions. Can't believe people want the second best middle order batsman of the last 2 overseas series dropped for a proven failure.

Useless because he averages 34 ? Isnt averaging 32 a sign of greatness & an automatic selection into your team ?:haha:

[The Outsider]

However, I'd agree that he played a good SUPPORT role for our main batsmen to bat around him.

Chalo atleast you agree on that and also that he does not deserve to be dropped right now which is fair enough. I think his innings were more crucial than you are willing to give credit for and so do many cricket experts but that's a matter of perception I guess.

[Bumper]

And if Yuvraj is useless we can always try a Badri or a Rao or some other youngster. The bottomline is that averaging in the mid 30s for over two years, is not a good reason to back a former great, however great he may have been, if he does not offer substantially more potential than the youth.

[The Outsider]

Useless because he averages 34 ? Isnt averaging 32 a sign of greatness & an automatic selection into your team ?:haha:

Why are you clutching at averages? Name one meaningful innings that Yuvraj has played in his entire test career after the century at Lahore in his second test. Even support role would do, which you have admitted Tendulkar is good at.

[The Outsider]

And if Yuvraj is useless we can always try a Badri or a Rao or some other youngster. The bottomline is that averaging in the mid 30s for over two years' date=' is not a good reason to back a former great, however great he may have been, if he does not offer substantially more potential than the youth.[/quote'] I would have been okay with that before the South Africa series but doesn't make sense to drop him after he has performed in the last two series.

[Bumper]

One meaningful innings ? How about three ? http://www.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/2005-06/SL_IN_IND/SCORECARDS/SL_IND_T2_10-14DEC2005.html Remember the second innings vs SL when India's lead was as slim as 250 with 5 of our batsmen back in the hut. Yuvraj partnered with Dhoni & buried the Lankans with his fluent 77 http://www.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/2005-06/SL_IN_IND/SCORECARDS/SL_IND_T3_18-22DEC2005.html Or how about this, when he was the lone warrior setting us up for a thumping win in the 2nd innings. http://www.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/2005-06/IND_IN_PAK/SCORECARDS/IND_PAK_T3_29JAN-02FEB2006.html Or do you care about this 'boy on the burning bridge' knock when every other batter popped in his nappies. And not one of these knocks, include cheap runs scored in easy conditions.

[Guest dada_rocks]

You are being a tad unfair on Dravid' date=' Dhondy. He is captaining without a coach for the first time, he has too many things on his mind. I would give him the benefit of the doubt for now. He is just a good knock or two away. I expect him to be back.[/quote'] Yes it's demanding job and that's why people talk so highly of ganguly's captaincy tenure, we all know in what situation he took reins..

[Bumper]

I back people like Sehwag, KKD, Dhoni & Yuvraj for far more than their abilities. I see a special something in them, that i dont see in many of our age old stars. Attitude matters as much as talent to me.

[The Outsider]

One meaningful innings ? How about three ? http://www.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/2005-06/SL_IN_IND/SCORECARDS/SL_IND_T2_10-14DEC2005.html Remember the second innings vs SL when India's lead was as slim as 250 with 5 of our batsmen back in the hut. Yuvraj partnered with Dhoni & buried the Lankans with his fluent 77 http://www.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/2005-06/SL_IN_IND/SCORECARDS/SL_IND_T3_18-22DEC2005.html Or how about this, when he was the lone warrior setting us up for a thumping win in the 2nd innings. http://www.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/2005-06/IND_IN_PAK/SCORECARDS/IND_PAK_T3_29JAN-02FEB2006.html Or do you care about this 'boy on the burning bridge' knock when every other batter popped in his nappies. And not one of these knocks, include cheap runs scored in easy conditions.

I'll grant you only the first one and in the same match Tendulkar scored a hundred. Second one was on the back of a huge first innings lead and the third was nothing more than a flashy knock in a lost cause. And before you bring up Tendulkar's innings in lost matches there is a difference between a lost cause and a losing cause.

[ludhianvi]

Why are you clutching at averages? Name one meaningful innings that Yuvraj has played in his entire test career after the century at Lahore in his second test. Even support role would do' date=' which you have admitted Tendulkar is good at.[/quote'] If you are looking for centuries, to be fair, he did make 45 and 122 in the karachi test in 2006

[The Outsider]

If you are looking for centuries' date=' to be fair, he did make 45 and 122 in the karachi test in 2006[/quote'] Karachi innings was hardly a meaningful knock. The match was already lost at that time. Yuvraj was given 11 almost consecutive tests, some ahead of a proven performer like Laxman and others in Tendulkar's injury absence. This is international cricket, you have to take your opportunities. Yuvraj flopped miserably so obviously Tendulkar and Laxman would be preferred.

[Bumper]

I'll grant you only the first one and in the same match Tendulkar scored a hundred. Second one was on the back of a huge first innings lead and the third was nothing more than a flashy knock in a lost cause. And before you bring up Tendulkar's innings in lost matches there is a difference between a lost cause and a losing cause.

Quote me a second innings heriocs of a Tendulkar (from the last two years, which is the period in question), when everyone else around him has failed ? Yuvraj bats at 6, so its unfair to blame him for the "lost cause", as the cause was lost by the Maharathis who batted before him. And there is no way this young man believes its over until its over. Remember Natwest finals ?

[The Outsider]

Quote me a second innings heriocs of a Tendulkar (from the last two years, which is the period in question), when everyone else around him has failed ?

That's just putting artificial goal posts. Similarly, I can ask you to quote Yuvraj's average outside the subcontinent during the period in question and he played his tests outside the subcontinent against the weakest test team. There is no denying Tendulkar's second innings record isn't hot but tests are played over two innings.

Yuvraj bats at 6, so its unfair to blame him for the "lost cause", as the cause was lost by the Maharathis who batted before him. And there is no way this young man believes its over until its over. Remember Natwest finals ?

For all practical purposes it was a lost cause whatever might have been the cause of it. What did he do against England and WI when the cause was not lost by the maharathis?

[The Outsider]

But since you do ask for meaningful second innings by Tendulkar during the period in question I can name his 55 against Australia and 52 against Pakistan.

[Bumper]

But since you do ask for meaningful second innings by Tendulkar during the period in question I can name his 55 against Australia and 52 against Pakistan.

Outside of the 2 years in question. Anyways from your posts its CLEAR that Sachin is not significantly better than Yuvraj (infact i dont even think he is better) as a middle order batsman during the last 2 years. Yet Sachin is a shoo in to the team while Yuvraj gets dumped repeatedly. And this inspite of Sachin, ONLY succeeding in relatively easy batting conditions when most other batsmen have scored. Doesnt look like a straight forward pick to me!