The Outsider Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Clearly Sonia or Rahul Gandhi are not "culprits" in any official capacity for any corruption or malgovernance of a Congress govt. But they (or Bal Thakeray in case of SS) would have a political responsibility which is less direct than' date=' say, the responsibility of the PM or a Congress CM.[/quote'] Or the council of ministers, so they are at worst tertiary influences? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arif654 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 First of all Please forgive me for any grammatical mistakes ( my first language is not English).I am probably in the minority here, I am neither a hindu nor Indian but reading this news made me very sad. First of all, this is from what I believe and from my limited knowledge of Islam there is no contradiction between being Indian (or any other nationality) and being a muslim. But the problem rises when extreme interpretations of Islam are mixed with nationalistic ideologies. Also to make one thing clear, Islam is NOT muslims and also actions of Pakistanis as well as Indian muslims and teachings of Islam are two different things. I myself have mixed with many Pakistanis living in Pakistan (I live in US) as well as some Indian muslims and some of them actually do believe in this idea of Ummah vs Nation, but the truth is what they are doing is not because of their duty towards Islam, in Islam you have to follow the law of the land as long as it doesn't contradict with your religious obligations (prayer, fasting, charity, belief in God etc). The people involved in this disgusting act, they need to be punished as traitors regardless of their religion, just because they claim to be muslim doesn't mean that their actions are valid according to Islam. If you live in India then you must follow the rules of the country and these people should be treated accordingly, but hopefully this action of a minority is condemned by the majority of muslims living in India. There is no contradiction in being an Indian muslim, contradiction is in just the head of these people, who don't have proper knowledge of their religion and country. My sincere apologies to all my Indian friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seedhi Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Or the council of ministers' date=' so they are at worst tertiary influences?[/quote']As I said, they have a political responsibility. Which means their role is debated, not in a court of law, CAG reports, Parliamentary committees, rather in the media, opinion pages, TV news etc, and responsibility fixed at the elections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 As I said' date=' they have a political responsibility. Which means their role is debated, not in a court of law, CAG reports, Parliamentary committees, rather in the media, opinion pages, TV news etc, and responsibility fixed at the elections.[/quote'] Forget about all these committees and media. On a scale of 1-10, 10 being the highest: 1. How would you rank Thackeray's influence on the Maharashtra government? 2. How would you rank Sonia Gandhi's influence on the Indian government? 3. How would you rank Rahul Gandhi's influence on the Indian government? Personally, I would say: 1. 8 2. 7 3. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seedhi Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Forget about all these committees and media. On a scale of 1-10, 10 being the highest: 1. How would you rank Thackeray's influence on the Maharashtra government? 2. How would you rank Sonia Gandhi's influence on the Indian government? 3. How would you rank Rahul Gandhi's influence on the Indian government? Personally, I would say: 1. 8 2. 7 3. 3You've got to be kidding me .. Thakeray's party is in the opposition and yet he has so much influence over the Maharashtra govt? On what basis can you make this claim? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 You've got to be kidding me .. Thakeray's party is in the opposition and yet he has so much influence over the Maharashtra govt? On what basis can you make this claim? Talking about when they were in power. I am not saying Sonia Gandhi had a 7/10 influence on the BJP government under Vajpayee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crookbond Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Just realized that you may feel that this (Pak govt. Not endorsing his activities openly) changes things in this context. The point however was centred on the fact that he was a citizen of Pakistan. I mean Pakistan has vehemently denied that Kasab is a Pakistani citizen. So, on what basis does Pakistan ask Kasab to be released? If indeed no basis, then no diplomacy tactic as well. To be frank, I doubt they care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganeshran Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I mean Pakistan has vehemently denied that Kasab is a Pakistani citizen. So, on what basis does Pakistan ask Kasab to be released? If indeed no basis, then no diplomacy tactic as well. To be frank, I doubt they care. No they havent. They accepted that Kasab was a Pakistani Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sachin=GOD Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Forget about all these committees and media. On a scale of 1-10, 10 being the highest: 1. How would you rank Thackeray's influence on the Maharashtra government? 2. How would you rank Sonia Gandhi's influence on the Indian government? 3. How would you rank Rahul Gandhi's influence on the Indian government? Personally, I would say: 1. 8 2. 7 3. 3 I would say: 1. 7 2. 9 3. 8 I think you are massively underrating Rahul Baba's influence on this Govt. He might not have any official position in the Govt but his surname is extremely influential. A recent example could be when during the debate on the Lokpal Bill he suddenly stood up and said that Lokpal should be a constitutional body like the Election Commission, many Cong ministers just agreed with him and a proposal to make Lokpal a Constitutional was brought even though till that moment there had not been as much as a mention of making the Lokplal a Constitutional body. You've got to be kidding me .. Thakeray's party is in the opposition and yet he has so much influence over the Maharashtra govt? On what basis can you make this claim? Thackrey might not be in power but he still has considerable influence because of many reasons - his party creates chaos and violence if they don't agree with Govt policies so the Govt has to given in many times. Also, some of the powerful people in the Govt (like Chagan Bhujbal, Narayan Rane etc ) are proteges of Thackrey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crookbond Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 No they havent. They accepted that Kasab was a Pakistani I honestly didn't know. Any authentic link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhr123 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I honestly didn't know. Any authentic link? I don't think the govt. have officially accepted him .. but yah .. few individuals plus Pakistani media have already confirmed him being a Pakistani. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crookbond Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I don't think the govt. have officially accepted him .. but yah .. few individuals plus Pakistani media have already confirmed him being a Pakistani. Which will be an epic KLPD if they ask for his release right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sachin=GOD Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Even if I grant you that a skewed narrative is being set by the SS' date=' why should Congress-NCP allow itself to be saddled with it? The root cause is misgovernance. You gave the example of Gujarat, well Modi could not have done the transformation without having delivered development oriented governance. Same thing happened in Bihar - Nitish has managed to change the discourse to development even though Lalu Yadav, Paswan remain wedded to the MY-Dalit poltics. This could not have happened without a development oriented, (relatively) clean regime that Nitish has provided. Similarly with Madhya Pradesh, [b']and to some extent (before the CWG fiasco) in Delhi. Basically when a party/government fails to deliver in governance they have to indulge in rhetoric and play community/caste politics. Congress-NCP, SS-BJP are all guilty of indulging in rhetoric but the blame for misgovernance and for not setting a development agenda has to lie with the party in power and not the opposition. Actually there's hasn't been that much of development in Delhi but Cong has still managed to be re-elected simply because BJP didn't have any good leaders. In the last election BJP would have won by a big margin if they had a good leader but all they had was VK Malhotra :facepalm: Bal Thakeray's party was last in power in Maharashtra from 1995-2000. So how can he be blamed for the current situation in Mumbai ahead of the subsequent chief ministers of Congress which is in its third term as the ruling party. If someone has to be blamed then it must first be the chief ministers of the Congress who have taken turns in governing for last 12 yrs. By the way, the primary responsibility of the Central government lies with the PM, remote control or no remote control. Cong/NCP obviously should be blamed for the mess in Maharashtra but SS/BJP cannot be absolved of blame - in fact one of the reasons for the failure of this Govt could be Shiv Sena's (and now MNS also) continuous opposition to most of the Govt policies and their tendency to create trouble if the Govt doesn't listen to them. It depends on whether the PM is actually powerful or not. In case of UPA 1/2 while the PM is definitely responsible, for me Sonia Gandhi is the one who should bear the primary responsibility simply because she is the most powerful person in the Govt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganeshran Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I honestly didn't know. Any authentic link? http://www.rediff.co.in/news/2009/jan/07mumterror-pakistan-finally-admits-kasab-is-a-pakistani.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crookbond Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 http://www.rediff.co.in/news/2009/jan/07mumterror-pakistan-finally-admits-kasab-is-a-pakistani.htm Thank You! Found a better NY Times Link though http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/08/world/asia/08pstan.html?_r=2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Actually there's hasn't been that much of development in Delhi but Cong has still managed to be re-elected simply because BJP didn't have any good leaders. In the last election BJP would have won by a big margin if they had a good leader but all they had was VK Malhotra :facepalm: Cong/NCP obviously should be blamed for the mess in Maharashtra but SS/BJP cannot be absolved of blame - in fact one of the reasons for the failure of this Govt could be Shiv Sena's (and now MNS also) continuous opposition to most of the Govt policies and their tendency to create trouble if the Govt doesn't listen to them. I think you have traded in your RSS chaddhi to (Sonia) Gandhi topi :beee::beee: Our resident Congess chief Ramu Kaka is sending a set of Panja chaap bindi your way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sachin=GOD Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I think you have traded in your RSS chaddhi to (Sonia) Gandhi topi :beee::beee: Our resident Congess chief Ramu Kaka is sending a set of Panja chaap bindi your way. Nahhhhhiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii :nono: MTC would take offence at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Nahhhhhiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii :nono: MTC would take offence at that. lol. Either way though, you are fine with Panja chaap bindi :agree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seedhi Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Actually there's hasn't been that much of development in Delhi but Cong has still managed to be re-elected simply because BJP didn't have any good leaders. In the last election BJP would have won by a big margin if they had a good leader but all they had was VK Malhotra :facepalm: Cong/NCP obviously should be blamed for the mess in Maharashtra but SS/BJP cannot be absolved of blame - in fact one of the reasons for the failure of this Govt could be Shiv Sena's (and now MNS also) continuous opposition to most of the Govt policies and their tendency to create trouble if the Govt doesn't listen to them. It depends on whether the PM is actually powerful or not. In case of UPA 1/2 while the PM is definitely responsible, for me Sonia Gandhi is the one who should bear the primary responsibility simply because she is the most powerful person in the Govt.Any evidence of this "continuous opposition" to govt policies? And obviously the opposition is not expected to support the govt everytime. Secondly, there are states where the govt has performed in spite of all opposition. In Gujarat, Modi has faced opposition from Congress, the central govt, so-called activists and even from the US govt, but still he has performed. In Orissa, Naveen Patnaik has performed. Nitish has performed in Bihar. So this argument of opposition obstruction holds little water, the root cause is misgovernance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Any evidence of this "continuous opposition" to govt policies? And obviously the opposition is not expected to support the govt everytime. Secondly' date=' there are states where the govt has performed in spite of all opposition. In Gujarat, Modi has faced opposition from Congress, the central govt, so-called activists and even from the US govt, but still he has performed. In Orissa, Naveen Patnaik has performed. Nitish has performed in Bihar. So this argument of opposition obstruction holds little water, the root cause is misgovernance.[/quote'] Dude. This is why discussion with you goes stale after a while. You simply refuse to concede anything that goes against your philosphy, even if it is the truth. Tell you what, show me any, and I mean ANY, politician in India who has managed to have cine-stars (for example) prostrate in front of him, or else their movies would be shut down because they were not in line with Thackeray's (Bal, Udhav & Raj) narrative. You can pick Amitabh, Aamir, Salman, Sanjay Dutt etc etc etc. Go on show me anything similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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