Civilian nuclear deal poll

[CC1981]

Source please??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_PAK_FA As you will see, PAK FA is already a project that is under development and India is not involved.

let India's strategic thinkers look into it figure out our future security needs and power projection in Asia.

They should not be the only ones decieding either. Strategic thinkers are almost all military or ex-military. To the military, there is no concept of 'uneeded hardware', the more the better, the finer the better is their policy. Nobody gives carte blanche to their 'strategic thinkers' for what is necessary, unless they are a military dictatorship in the first place.

IMO there is no harm in co-developing a 5th generation jet if it fits the bill.

Oh yes there is. Su-30 MKI is already the best fighter jet available between India, China & Pakistan. India does NOT need a PAKFA 5th generation fighter for any reason apart from a childish 'my dik is bigger than your dik' type contests. The insane amount of money funelled towards this unecessary project is better spent in counter-terrorism related technologies and efforts.

[sandtest]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_PAK_FA As you will see, PAK FA is already a project that is under development and India is not involved..

Ohh just read your this wikipedia thing it mentions following --

However, the involvement of India in the PAK FA project has not been confirmed by the governments of both countries. Also, it remains unclear whether the joint project will be PAK FA or a new project.

Can you read something between these lines --- it clearly points something else -- my take is that a lot of things remain confidential -- and "has not been confirmed" -- doesnot mean that it has been overruled. You got it.?? Now quit searching wikipedia and read from some original source -- read this below Loksabha (Indian parliament) release Co-development of a Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft has been identified as an important area of cooperation between the Indian and Russian Government. Technical discussions to work out the details are in progress. Efforts are on for finalizing the draft Inter Governmental Agreement in this regard. This information was given by the Minister of State for Defence Production Rao Inderjit Singh in a written reply to Shri Gurudas Dasgupta and Shri CK Chandrappan in Lok Sabha today. http://pib.nic.in/release/release.asp?relid=30599 If somebody has to believe your ususal BS and India never need a fifth gen fighter then why the hell GOI will pursue this? Typical commie ideologists to undermine India's security interests!

[CC1981]

Can you read something between these lines --- it clearly points something else -- my take is that a lot of things remain confidential -- and "has not been confirmed" -- doesnot mean that it has been overruled. You got it.??

Err what i did read clearly is that the first scheduled test flight is sometime in 2008. That is just over a year away, meaning that the project is close to finishing or already mostly done. India's non-commitment to the project at this late stage certainly rules out any claims of 'joint development or venture' on the PAKFA and at best it might amount to a Su-30MKI style 'buying the technology' for PAKFA.

If somebody has to believe your ususal BS and India never need a fifth gen fighter then why the hell GOI will pursue this?

Pressure from the military, for whom there is no such concept as 'this hardware is unecessary as of now'.

Typical commie ideologists to undermine India's security interests!

Typical sycophant chest-thumping ideologist who goes for the unnecessary PAKFA when the money for it could be FAR BETTER spent in counter-terrorism developments and infrastructure. Your PAKFA quest is nothing more than adding a nice nifty toy to India's aresnal, that probably never will be used to its full potential and is most definitely not required as of now or in the immediate future ( India already has the BEST fighter in Su-30MKI amongst Ind-china-Pak), just for the sake of your ego, while ignoring FAR more meaningful investments such as CT.

[sandtest]

Pressure from the military, for whom there is no such concept as 'this hardware is unecessary as of now'. .

Another never ending arguement full of BS. Anyway, my last take is that since GOI is deciding that it will go for 5th generation. PAK-FA joint venture with Russia, then now we should not select Mig-35. Because that would indeed make very high percentage of Russian military hardware in IAF (not good for long term)....More than 200 Su-30 MKIs, more than 200 Mig-35s (if all options excercized) and more than 200 PAK-FA this makes a huge number and might give a lot leverage to Russia on us. I would prefer Boeing F/A 18 if they come with APG79 AESA and all those weapons combined with full technology transfer or Rafale with Meteor missile-- in this case DRDO has to integrate Israeli Elta radars.

[CC1981]

Another never ending arguement full of BS.

That your argument certainly is. You asked me 'why would the military want stuff it doesnt need?', i answered you the obvious fact that militaries EVERYWHERE are known for - for them, no gun is big enough, no amount of money spent is enough, hell, one of th INS Admirals is on record, on tv interview, stating precisely that ( no such ting as enough funding). So your response to that is 'BS argument'. I also provided the reasoning behind my stance ( India does NOT need a PAKFA fighter) : 1. Su-30MKI is the most advanced standing air fighter in Asia currently that may fight against India ( USA doesnt count, they wont ever fight India). If China and Pakistan is the threat, then we are already #1 for the most advanced fighter. 2. Our biggest problem to security is insurgency and terrorism. THAT is what threatens India the most, be it the commie fundies or the muslim fundies or some nagas and retarded assamese fundies. PAKFA does squat-all against them, the billions for PAKFA are better spent on counter-terrorism infrastructure and developments. Sure, if everything is working at top-of-the-world efficiency and you still got money to burn, extend your lead in a tech you are already #1. But India is not there and it CLEARLY needs to prioritize anti-terrorism higher than expensive toys it probably never will use that much and doesnt have a NEED for. Again, it is clear who is resorting to BS, who is not. Your focus is military hardware because thats your benchmark for measuring your unit vs pakistanis or chinese. Yay for you (not)!

PAK-FA joint venture with Russia, then now we should not select Mig-35.

*sigh*. PAKFA will fly in a year's time from now. Whatever GOI has decieded is irrelevant, because PAKFA project has already started, is just a year form finish ( these projects last several years) and India cannot claim to've developed it jointly- perhaps buy it like it buys tech.

More than 200 Su-30 MKIs, more than 200 Mig-35s (if all options excercized) and more than 200 PAK-FA this makes a huge number and might give a lot leverage to Russia on us.

Care to tell us just how 'exactly' Russia will weild such leverage over us, given that we are buying A to Z of all the info there is on these planes (thats what full tech transfer means) ?!? WTF is Russia gonna do in 2010 if India wants to build Su-30MKIs and sell it to uganda or mauritus ? India knows A to Z about Su-30MKI. Russia basically sold control rights for a big fat paycheque. But yes, making the army too dependent on one type of hardware is a bit like having too many medium pacers in the side and not enough spinners. IMO, Rafale should take the contract.