Missing Murali Kartik

[Ultimate_Game]

The best left arm spinner we have but somehow was always unfairly treated by the selectors is sorely being missed this series. I am sure he would have done to England what he did to Aussies in 2004 in Mumbai. Given that he's able to take wkts in county cricket I am sure he would have been able to be successful on turning tracks at home against England.

[Crookbond]

Finally .... someone! Btw - we should also thank Ganguly for screwing up with Kartik's career.

[Ultimate_Game]

I never really understood why his intl career suddenly ended right after he won us that game against Aus in 2004. He still has plenty to offer given his strong county performances but was always ignored.

[R.D forever]

would have been a perfect choice for the third spinner , has played in england a lot and seeing monty and ojha's success SLA is the way to go ( turn , bounce , ball going away from the batsman ) :((

[Ultimate_Game]

would have been a perfect choice for the third spinner ' date=' has played in england a lot and seeing monty and ojha's success SLA is the way to go ( turn , bounce , ball going away from the batsman ) :(([/quote'] Plus he has more variety and can vary his pace which Ojha struggles with.

[Crookbond]

Ganguly never liked left arm spinners because he played them supremely. So Lordie applied this Kolkatta logic to all other batsmen. Kartik even came back and performed admirably in 2007 ODI versus Australia. I am not sure if people noticed but Panesar creates a different angle than Ojha and is similar to Kartik. Kartik bowled really well in the domestic games too. He has been effective even in country cricket which are spin-alien conditions. I have been talking about fast spin bowling since the England series against Pakistan in the UAE but multiple posters here dissed me even telling Harbhajan would be better because he flights loops etc! Pakistan picked up the uncapped Hasan Raza for the World T20 2012 and he was lethal. George Bailey went on record saying that Australia needs a left arm spinner like Raza or Narine (both are quicker through the air). The only such spinner in India is Shahbaz Nadeem (plays for the Delhi Daredevils) captain of the Jharkand Ranji team at 23. He has picked up 24 wickets in 3 FC games this season albeit against lesser known sides. The genre of spin bowling is undergoing a massive change and one needs to keep up with it.

[CG]

You mean we need darters .I still prefer guys who loop the ball and give flight they will be allround better bowlers.

[Ultimate_Game]

Ganguly never liked left arm spinners because he played them supremely. So Lordie applied this Kolkatta logic to all other batsmen. Kartik even came back and performed admirably in 2007 ODI versus Australia. I am not sure if people noticed but Panesar creates a different angle than Ojha and is similar to Kartik. Kartik bowled really well in the domestic games too. He has been effective even in country cricket which are spin-alien conditions. I have been talking about fast spin bowling since the England series against Pakistan in the UAE but multiple posters here dissed me even telling Harbhajan would be better because he flights loops etc! Pakistan picked up the uncapped Hasan Raza for the World T20 2012 and he was lethal. George Bailey went on record saying that Australia needs a left arm spinner like Raza or Narine (both are quicker through the air). The only such spinner in India is Shahbaz Nadeem (plays for the Delhi Daredevils) captain of the Jharkand Ranji team at 23. He has picked up 24 wickets in 3 FC games this season albeit against lesser known sides. The genre of spin bowling is undergoing a massive change and one needs to keep up with it.

Yup Harbhajan is not the answer. I would have gone for Harmeet if I was the selector. But yeah this Nadeem guy deserves a call-up as well.

[Crookbond]

I don't know if people know about spin bowling before calling someone a "darter". A darter is a bowler who "does not spin the ball". We would want people "who spin the ball" albeit at a pace which does NOT allow the batsman time to adjust to the spin and come down the track. This puts huge pressure on a batsman's footwork and people who are not quick/decisive will struggle. Flight and loop are passe, unless you are a Murali or Warne.

[Ultimate_Game]

I don't know if people know about spin bowling before calling someone a "darter". A darter is a bowler who "does not spin the bowl". We would want people "who spin the ball" albeit at a pace which does NOT allow the batsman time to adjust to the spin and come down the track. This puts huge pressure on a batsman's footwork and people who are not quick/decisive will struggle. Flight and loop are passe, unless you are a Murali or Warne.

Yup that's what I meant by variation in pace in Kartik's context. Kartik could loop one up and then suddenly dart one in. Ojha by contrast doesn't vary his pacemuch allowing batsmen to get used to him more easily.

[Nova]

I have always wondered this about Murali Kartik. I think he is not anyone's pet and so no one does him favors. Whereas, Harbhajan tends to be buddy buddy with senior players like SRT. Favoritism at some level.

[CG]

I don't know if people know about spin bowling before calling someone a "darter". A darter is a bowler who "does not spin the ball". We would want people "who spin the ball" albeit at a pace which does NOT allow the batsman time to adjust to the spin and come down the track. This puts huge pressure on a batsman's footwork and people who are not quick/decisive will struggle. Flight and loop are passe, unless you are a Murali or Warne.

Flight and loop are never passe.On turners its okay but on normal pitches there will be less turn and you will be exposed badly.Frankly even clarke was impossible to play with his roundarm action on turning tracks.

[Ultimate_Game]

I have always wondered this about Murali Kartik. I think he is not anyone's pet and so no one does him favors. Whereas' date=' Harbhajan tends to be buddy buddy with senior players like SRT. Favoritism at some level.[/quote'] That's the culture of entitlement and sifarish which has held us back.

[R.D forever]

Is it difficult to bowl the " fast spin " ?? Why cant ojha and ashwin do that .

[Crookbond]

Flight and loop are never passe.On turners its okay but on normal pitches there will be less turn and you will be exposed badly.Frankly even clarke was impossible to play with his roundarm action on turning tracks.

Yes - because that is what happened in the UAE isn't it?

[CG]

Is it difficult to bowl the " fast spin " ?? Why cant ojha and ashwin do that .

There actions are not suited for it and i am glad they are diff bowlers from eng bowlers.Bhajji style is great for this pitch but he is not in form.

[Crookbond]

Yup that's what I meant by variation in pace in Kartik's context. Kartik could loop one up and then suddenly dart one in. Ojha by contrast doesn't vary his pacemuch allowing batsmen to get used to him more easily.

Ojha can not be used as an attacking option. Ojha is a Gillespie not a McGrath in fast bowling analogy. The attacking option is R Ashwin and he did not bowl well. Simple as that!

[Nova]

Is it difficult to bowl the " fast spin " ?? Why cant ojha and ashwin do that .

There is no reason they cannot do it. Sanjay Manrekar asked this same question to Shane Warne yesterday, and Warne said all these variations of bowling need to be practiced at the nets. Practice...practice all your deliveries with speed variations and when the match situation demands, you can go there and bowl.

[Crookbond]

There actions are not suited for it and i am glad they are diff bowlers from eng bowlers.Bhajji style is great for this pitch but he is not in form.

Is it difficult to bowl the " fast spin " ?? Why cant ojha and ashwin do that .

To bowl fast spin - you need to have a quicker run up to get more momentum behind the ball. If you are a right arm off spin bowler, you need to have some variation like a 'doosra' else batsmen will keep on picking you on the leg side for runs. This is were Ajmal is effective. On the contrary, if you are a left-arm spinner you have the angle in your favor for the LBW. The only bowler in our line up who can bowl fast spin is R Ashwin. Harbhajan, Ojha are traditional spinners.

[R.D forever]

Ojha can not be used as an attacking option. Ojha is a Gillespie not a McGrath in fast bowling analogy. The attacking option is R Ashwin and he did not bowl well. Simple as that!

attacking option?? the guy does not stick to a line and length and bowls atleast one poor ball in an over.. :headshake: