Do most Pakistanis hate Indians ?

[THX_1138]

Do pakistanis hate us indians? Well if we are talking about those with jobs and a decent scientific education and live in or around karachi, or islamabad... and the other elite punjabis... no they dont. They like me dont give a nickle's worth about the politics between the two countries. But the pakistanis, if you can call them that who reside in Baluchistan, Pashtun regions of the NWP and other madrassa educated lower middle to lower income class individuals probably hate us just as much as our bal thackerays and gang. Does it matter who hates who and whose hatred is more justified? Why are some posters here on a mission to potray Pakistanis as residents of the third circle of hell? They have vice, just as we do; they have hate just as we do. so the bottom line is who gives a frack? Just get up in the morning, go to your job, pay your taxes and watch your nation blaze away towards economic development. a generation or two later, such quantizations as "indian", "pakistani" would seem rather artifical as free economics and global communication make the borders more porus.

[kablooee87]

I don't hate Indians. I just hate racist, ignorant, hatred-filled people like dada_rocks. It is people like him who perpetuate the sort of rhetoric that feuls the perceived anomosity between the two peoples. (And no, I'm not getting into an argument with you. You're not worth that much.)

[sandtest]

Very true dada' date=' tehzeeb aur pyar mein pharak hai. But how can we assume the average Pakistani is a cold blooded person who cares only for Islam in the end? [b']Just like us they want to be friends, and just like us they are a bit confused about our intentions after 60 yrs of war and hatred and govt lies. :confused_smile:

And how one can say that for sure....this typical way of assumptions we indian live with and turn ourselves into candle light kissing crowd of wagah border while continuing being bled by our neighbors. Vajpayee did the same mistake and travelled altogether in a Bus for the first time for any PM all the way till Pakistan for what?...for "illusion of peace". And look what heppened, Pakis watched their own PM (Nawaz) being shafted by Mushy and supported a military regime in creating Kargil. Ask any Paki about Kargil and he will promptly say it is all due to evil Indians, besides all facts available in black and white. While it all looks very "fascinating" when we see a handful of people like MP appear to be talking all peace, love and Gandhigiri and may be they are sincere as well. But thing is such people on Internet fora are very negligible compared to majority living in Islamic Republic of Pakitsan, sunk deep in pseudo-monotheistic charm of Islam. We respect those educated non-resident Pakistanis living abroad and travelling once in a while to Pakistan, when they talk about friendship and love, but the fact is they are very few in number and their voices remain unheard in Pakistan.

[sandtest]

I don't hate Indians. I just hate racist' date= ignorant, hatred-filled people like dada_rocks. It is people like him who perpetuate the sort of rhetoric that feuls the perceived anomosity between the two peoples. (And no, I'm not getting into an argument with you. You're not worth that much.)

I will show you the "AtmaGyan", Your that statement is just another way of an educated Paki to soothe his heart that-- ohh you see I don't hate kuffars but only those who are "ignorant". Caution1 for you: What you assume as "others" ignorant, could be your own ignorance and self appeasing mindset of a typical Paki, that anything and everything of Islam is all "love" "Peace" and "happiness" while others remain hatred filled, racist, ignorant about Oneness of God and all those BS thrown by Quran belt. And since they are proven ignorant hence justified to hate them.

[sandtest]

Do pakistanis hate us indians? Well if we are talking about those with jobs and a decent scientific education and live in or around karachi' date=' or islamabad... and the other elite punjabis... no they dont. They like me dont give a nickle's worth about the politics between the two countries. .[/quote'] Right! and their number is negligible, their voices remain un-heard.

But the pakistanis, if you can call them that who reside in Baluchistan, Pashtun regions of the NWP and other madrassa educated lower middle to lower income class individuals probably hate us just as much as our bal thackerays and gang.

Your comparison with Bal Thackeray is flawed IMHO. Thackeray, Pravin Togadia, Ashok Singhals are a reaction to extremism and hatred fostered by Ummah. They are not the one who started this and they will become irrelevant and disappear IF Ummah becomes accommodative for others, but then there is that big IF.

[sandtest]

तेह्ज़ीब को प्यार सम्जहें की भूल न करें | ये तेह्ज़ीब का नाटक ६० साल से चल रहा है | इसमें अगर थोरी सी भी सच्चाई होती तो विभाजन ही नहीं होता | विभाजन छोरें ये चार चार युद्ध नहीं होता | अच्छा सोंचने से ही अच्छा हो जाता तो करगिल नहीं होता --- जब पूरा देश ही अच्छा सोंच रहा था | ये सब बातें प्राथमिक विद्यालय के प्रथम कक्षा में अच्छी लगती हैं | वयस्कों की वास्तविक दुनिया में इसका कोई औचित्य नहीं है | वास्तविक दुनिया में आकलन का आधार वर्षों का कर्म और चरित्र है न की कोई विचार-गणना |

Exactly my words D_R.:thumbs_up:

[Guest dada_rocks]

Very true dada' date=' tehzeeb aur pyar mein pharak hai. But how can we assume the average Pakistani [b']is a cold blooded person who cares only for Islam in the end? Just like us they want to be friends, and just like us they are a bit confused about our intentions after 60 yrs of war and hatred and govt lies. :confused_smile:

U guys keep stretching the words.. Yes u don't have to assume just one cursory look at history will suffice.. I do not buy that their intention has changed yes they now see they can't do anything about it so let us put an act of friendship.. Exactly this repressed sentiment comes to fore when these guys start cheering a boor like inzi when he beats an indian fan..

[Guest dada_rocks]

I don't hate Indians. I just hate racist, ignorant, hatred-filled people like dada_rocks. It is people like him who perpetuate the sort of rhetoric that feuls the perceived anomosity between the two peoples. (And no, I'm not getting into an argument with you. You're not worth that much.)

In other words u hate those who point out your double-face and u love those who prefere to keep eyes closed and give u benefit of doubt even after zillion crime.. I am compassionate but certainly nto an idiot who will keep extending u ropes and while all the time u keep attemping to hang me with that..

[Guest dada_rocks]

I will show you the "AtmaGyan", Your that statement is just another way of an educated Paki to soothe his heart that-- ohh you see I don't hate kuffars but only those who are "ignorant". Caution1 for you: What you assume as "others" ignorant, could be your own ignorance and self appeasing mindset of a typical Paki, that anything and everything of Islam is all "love" "Peace" and "happiness" while others remain hatred filled, racist, ignorant about Oneness of God and all those BS thrown by Quran belt. And since they are proven ignorant hence justified to hate them.

islam ko chhoro yaar yehan logon ko thread mein spanner dalane ka mauka mil jayega.. let us keept it confined to pakistan a nation..

[Guest dada_rocks]

Pakistan has srcrwed us enough times while talking peace so there is no doubt in any sane person's mind that while u do talk peace with these folkls keep their past behavious in mind.. If their peace-talk is genuione whihc I doubt pretty much it hasn't come due to some love and affection it has come due to the fact that they have no othyer choice. If and when they see some other opening they will do what they have been doing in past.. So bottomline talk peace but remain firm.. No more benefit of doubt please..

[Guest dada_rocks]

Have u noticed guiys even in this issue pakistani posteres have kept themselves at arms length why their brethren cheer a boor like inzi's beating of an indian fan.. Obviously they support that kind of behaviour but won't like to judged for that...... Once again change ur deed ur image make-over will follow..

[Guest dada_rocks]

Right! and their number is negligible, their voices remain un-heard. Your comparison with Bal Thackeray is flawed IMHO. Thackeray, Pravin Togadia, Ashok Singhals are a reaction to extremism and hatred fostered by Ummah. They are not the one who started this and they will become irrelevant and disappear IF Ummah becomes accommodative for others, but then there is that big IF.

Even while being reactionary thackerey/togadia are million times more tolerant than these folks.. Togadia exudes the sentiment of "let us sit together and purge our respective cultures from hate-peddling sources".. Noone from the other side have been able to match these words so far.

[Guest dada_rocks]

You are basically calling the Pakistani citizens two faced! Does this mean that all the friendships that i have with Indians are"jhootee doosties" simply because i was born 100 miles to the west?? then you go on and bring in our fitarat...kia hum insaan niehie hain? kia aup koo hum may nafrat and Jhoot kay illawa aur kuch niehie nazr attha?? Now coming to the Inzamam's incident, what makes you feel that people who admire Inzi's action do that because the guy was Indian?? The fact is that the man was constantly abusing Inzi and Inzi lost his cool and some people think that Inzi had the right to act against the constant abuse.

..Inzi was called aloo people get called much harsher names on field I have not seen anyone doing what this guy did.. This is apparently yoor one of the most genteel pakistani sample god knows how the normal ones react.. Anyway that's not the point, individuals might falter: problem is endrosement of gentry at large of those deeds done by faltering individuals.... well u have widened the ambit of debate.. my point was pakistani love it when oen of them beat indians and inzi mian's cheering does make it look like so..

[sandtest]

Even while being reactionary thackerey/togadia are million times more tolerant than these folks.. Togadia exudes the sentiment of "let us sit together and purge our respective cultures from hate-peddling sources".. Noone from the other side have been able to match these words so far.

Right! Conclusion is so called Hindu, right winger extremists, nationalists etc. even in their worst avatar will be 10 times better than moderate, enlightened Pakis. If this doesn't become clear to we Indians, then it's our fault.

[Guest dada_rocks]

So those who like to keep theye eyes close can;t be helped for the open minded ones here the time-line of events Muslim League (establsihed in 1905) : Hindu mahasabha : ( establsihed in 1937) Your call on who is reactionary and who is root cause..

[kumble_rocks]

Good to see Sandtest align with DR !:D And trust me it won't be confined to General discussion , he will start agreeing with DR that Ganguly is the next best thing after sliced bread and Dravid sucks. :hysterical:

[kumble_rocks]

So those who like to keep theye eyes close can;t be helped for the open minded ones here the time-line of events Muslim League (establsihed in 1905) : Hindu mahasabha : ( establsihed in 1937) Your call on who is reactionary and who is root cause..

I think most posters including CC , myself etc agree that it was more reactionary in the case of Hindus.

[kumble_rocks]

Even while being reactionary thackerey/togadia are million times more tolerant than these folks.. Togadia exudes the sentiment of "let us sit together and purge our respective cultures from hate-peddling sources".. Noone from the other side have been able to match these words so far.

I nominate your post for the most humorous post of the week. Thackerey targets South Indians as well as North Indians- http://www.rediff.com/news/1999/jul/15akd.htm [h3]Politicians, patriotism and pettiness[/h3] Atal Bihari Vajpayee continues to grow in stature. He recently told thespian Dilip Kumar that holding the Nishan-e-Imtiaz, Pakistan's highest civilian award, does not imply that his patriotism is less than that of others and no one has a right to suspect his fidelity to the nation. The famous star of yesteryears was given the award for, among other things, contributing to India-Pakistan friendship. In many ways, Vajpayee's bus journey to Lahore was part of this same act of friendship, and we all know that Pakistani leaders betrayed this act of trust. Yet, Vajpayee's act cannot be undone. Similarly, whatever contribution Dilip Kumar has made in the past will stay. And it is for these past contributions that he was given the award, all of which is part of history, even if the present is anything but friendly. So why is Dilip Kumar being targeted by the most abominable of political outfits, the Shiv Sena, and its leader Bal Thackeray? The Sena chief has asked Dilip Kumar to return the Nishan-e-Imtiaz as an act of patriotism. First questions first. Who the hell is Thackeray to ask for a show of patriotism? This demagogue, unfortunately hailed by many, has in his 30-odd years in public life been unpatriotic, preaching hatred against fellow Indians, all to boost his political life. Thackeray launched his political career by asking Maharashtrians to target South Indians simply because these non-Marathi-speaking people were taking away local jobs. Was not Thackeray's move anti-Constitution and anti-national? Was Thackeray's decree an act of patriotism, or was it a move that was more likely to cause India's balkanisation? The Sena thugs went on a witch hunt, targeting and beating up Kannadigas, many of whom were successful restaurateurs, and Tamilians and Malayalees who competed for clerical jobs alongside the Maharashtrians. The South Indian often got the job in Bombay simply because he worked harder and often spoke a smattering of English better than his Maharashtrian colleague. In his later years, Thackeray abused and targeted the Gujaratis (Hindus and Jains) who control most of Bombay's retail trade, and, of course, the Muslims, which continues till date. Forget not caring for fellow Indians, Thackeray does not even care for all Maharashtrians. Because by targeting the above-named communities, he placed Maharashtrians elsewhere at risk. Huge numbers of Maharashtrians reside in Bangalore and Belgaum in Karnataka, Thanjuvar in Tamil Nadu, and Baroda and Ahmedabad in Gujarat. Did Thackeray care that his actions in Bombay could hurt fellow Maharashtrians elsewhere? He did not, because as a politician, all that Thackeray cared about was winning power. The very fact that his anti-South Indian and anti-Gujarati stance turned anti-Muslim reflects political expediency. He needed all Hindu votes on an anti-Muslim plank. Thackeray's non-patriotic Sena killed a former Indian Air Force officer during the Bombay riots in December 1992, a Maharashtrian officer who took part in the 1965 war against Pakistan. Only because officer Chiplunkar's first name was Ismail. When the Kargil crisis broke out in late May, Dilip Kumar quietly contributed to the Army Welfare Fund. He did not mention this even when Sena goons questioned his patriotism. An intrepid press reporter leaked the story only a few days ago. Has Thackeray, who has amassed quite a fortune, contributed much? How come this 'patriot' never asked his children to join the armed forces? You can bet it is because Thackeray does not believe in dying for the country, but believes in others dying for the country while electing him. His sons have his empire to inherit and his shows to run, the latest being his daughter-in-law Smita producing a film. Strange that for someone who spoke of Marathi pride, his daughter-in-law has made a movie in Hindi, not Marathi. Is it because Marathi movies don't earn much? In fact, the Marathi movie industry is crying out for help, but did Thackeray, Smita or the state government hear them? Thackeray's patriotism is limited to abusing Pakistan, making ridiculous symbolic gestures, not doing anything substantial and questioning the loyalty of Indian Muslims. The last is truly despicable. Dilip Kumar was born Yusuf Khan in Peshawar, in undivided India. Any decent human being would treasure an award from the land of his birth, even if relations are strained, and Dilip Kumar does treasure memories of his childhood (who doesn't? Ask the NRIs). If Dilip Kumar can without a tinge of regret renounce his birthplace, then tomorrow he can renounce the land of his destiny -- India. In fact, by fighting to keep his award, Dilip Kumar has shown that he is a great human being who treasures his birthplace just a little less than the country of his citizenship. Incidentally, even Morarji Desai received the Nishan-e-Imtiaz, so how come the Sena did not ask his descendants to return it to Pakistan. The reason is clearly the communal angle. Thackeray is a worried man. Maharashtra goes to the polls soon and the Sena's popularity has plummeted. In the last four years and more, the only tangible achievement of the Sena-BJP government has been to change the name of Bombay to Mumbai. Great! Lacking issues to whip up the communal sentiments that helped him win the election in 1995, Thackeray found one in Dilip Kumar aka Yusuf Khan. This only reveals Thackeray's lack of patriotism. Because the Kargil war's greatest achievement has been to foster an incredible unity among the people of India (something our horrible politicians will not really like). Our martyrs include people of all faiths -- Hindu, Sikh, Muslim, Christian and Buddhist. In one brave operation, as reported in The Indian Express, mostly Muslim soldiers of the 11 Grenadiers, shouting Allah-o-Akbar, scaled a peak and captured it from the Pakistanis. The operation cost 11 lives, all Muslim, but every Indian mourned their deaths while suffused with pride at their gallant operation. These martyrs have only increased the desire in all of us never again to allow communal violence in our country. Similarly, the death of a Dalit soldier of a village in Gujarat brought the upper castes to his residence to pay homage, something they had never done earlier. Then there are martyrs from regions that many Indian don't even think about. Nagaland (the Naga Regiment, one of our youngest regiments, has come out in flying colours), Assam, Meghalaya (one martyr's father's response on hearing about his son's death was to ask the brave jawans to continue the war without fear), Ladakh, and so on. There is a moving story of how a United Liberation Front of Asom member left his guerilla outfit because he refused to carry out his chief's order to help the Pakistanis. "I am an Assamese and an Indian," he was quoted as saying. Unfortunately, some politicians who thrive on hate and distrust among communities and people cannot be too happy about this. Such pan-Indian bonding hurts their electoral chances. So they make petty demands, such as asking a well-known and respected figure to prove his patriotism. The message Thackeray wants to send out is that the patriotism of Muslims is suspect, that Hindus in the times of Kargil must not trust their fellow Muslims. All for cheap politics! Thackeray should worry more about his useless government and its inability to deliver the goods rather than pick on a great Indian (who happens to be a Muslim) and who has proved his patriotism over the years. Indian Muslims have sacrificed their lives for India, they don't need some damn politician's stamp of approval.

[sandtest]

Good to see Sandtest align with DR !:D And trust me it won't be confined to General discussion ' date=' he will start agreeing with DR that Ganguly is the next best thing after sliced bread and [b']Dravid sucks. :hysterical:

Naah, for me neither Dravid nor Ganguly suck. Both are Legends. My favorite is Sachu and ONLY reason why I started watching Cricket on regular basis.:two_thumbs_up:

[kumble_rocks]

KR .. didnt you say else where that Thackeray was a Islamophobe (Or something on those lines) .... ? Based on your own article turns out that he is an equal oppurtunity thug and doesnt discriminate based on religion ? :haha:

Is it okay to be a equal opportunity thug who doesnt discriminate based on religion ? And while we are at , do you agree with DR's assessment that "Even while being reactionary thackerey/togadia are million times more tolerant than these folks.." After all he specifically targeted our pals from North karnataka. Trust me, even "Joshis" and "Raos" of the world were not spared if they spoke Kannada in Mumbai,:D