Dhoni overtakes Ganguly's tally of 21 test wins as captain

[Ultimate_Game]

Or when he came out agressive firing all guns in the Natwest Final at Lords. Sad he could not continue that wonderful innings. But he first gave us the hope that the target was chasable by giving us that great start with his 60.

So you bring the Natwest finals knock of Ganguly and ignore Dhoni's WC final or his numerous odi knocks :giggle:

[carnish]

Watched each and every ball of two tests at Bangalore vs Aus in 2004 and vs Pakistan in 2005. Dada in both the tests was no better than Dhoni of recent times. Aloof' date=' ultra defensive, stubborn and totally out of depth and having no control over the team..Pertinent to mention here the 1st test at Mohali of that Pakistan series, we allowed Akmal and Razzaq to save the test match. But I guess all that has been completely forgotten![/quote'] Arey, I was just asking a question. I know every captain goes through such stuff. Even Michael Clarke looked clueless when Dhoni and Bhuvi were batting at Chennai.

[The Outsider]

How can you totally separate results from strong leadership? How good a leadership is if it doesn't produce the required results? And in this case we are talking of two tactically poor captains both of whom primarily led/lead their respective sides more on instincts than on strategies devised in the meetings and discussions.

You can't totally separate them, but the discussion on this thread has been more or less focused on phalana won this cup and dhimkana won that cup.

[Ultimate_Game]

Arey' date=' I was just asking a question. I know every captain goes through such stuff. Even Michael Clarke looked clueless when Dhoni and Bhuvi were batting at Chennai.[/quote'] As I said earlier, if you want to take shots at an Indian captain, every single one of them will fail the test :winky:

[carnish]

So you bring the Natwest finals knock of Ganguly and ignore Dhoni's WC final or his numerous odi knocks :giggle:

When did I ignore??? I said earlier that I am the biggest fan of Dhoni ... I can point out too many knock's of Dhoni too. I just remembered that innings and I posted it and it had no relation to Dhoni at all. I just want to say here again that Captaincy is based on a lot of things and unless someone truly sucks , there is no point comparing two people as captains.

[The Outsider]

And Dhoni did at Chennai albeit against a relatively weaker opposition.

Relatively weaker opposition is an understatement when it comes to talking about arguably two of the three strongest cricketing sides the game has ever seen. Granted Australia did not have McGrath (Warne was as much a non factor as MacGill), but they were still a damn good unit at home.

[ganeshran]

How about Dhoni against Aus in the 1st Test or against NZ in the last home series? Or maybe you are expecting a wk-batsman to play like a specialist batsman. Ganguly was a specialist batsman' date=' Kapil was a strike bowler and you would expect these kind of performances from them.[/quote'] A wicket keeper batsman should atleast keep properly. Dhoni's keeping was pisspoor in the Hyderabad test. Except that Hughes catch which was great, he dropped Cowan, let off a number of byes off the seamers. One of the two richochets was dhoni's catch which luckily got deflected to the slips

[The Outsider]

How about Dhoni against Aus in the 1st Test or against NZ in the last home series? Or maybe you are expecting a wk-batsman to play like a specialist batsman. Ganguly was a specialist batsman' date=' Kapil was a strike bowler and you would expect these kind of performances from them.[/quote'] Seriously? NZ? Current Australia? Go to the scorecards and check out the level of the teams I am talking about. :hysterical: So, Dhoni is a specialist keeper, right? When has he won us a test based on his keeping by plucking 4-5 extraordinary dismissals in a match?

[carnish]

As I said earlier' date=' if you want to take shots at an Indian captain, every single one of them will fail the test :winky:[/quote'] As I mentioned about Clarke, it you want to take shots at captains everyone will fail. Not only Indian captains but even Steve Waugh would have failed in some game.

[Ultimate_Game]

When did I ignore??? I said earlier that I am the biggest fan of Dhoni ... I can point out too many knock's of Dhoni too. I just remembered that innings and I posted it and it had no relation to Dhoni at all. I just want to say here again that Captaincy is based on a lot of things and unless someone truly sucks ' date=' there is no point comparing two people as captains.[/quote'] Which proves the point Dhoni & Ganguly were both decent captains.

[saneindian]

You can't totally separate them' date=' but the discussion on this thread has been more or less focused on phalana won this cup and dhimkana won that cup.[/quote'] Pehle bhi kaha tha yaar, stats wala thread hai, numbers to rahenge hi. Best captain ki discussion ke liye we have another thread and some of the points being discussed right now have been debated over and over again

[Ultimate_Game]

Seriously? NZ? Current Australia? Go to the scorecards and check out the level of the teams I am talking about. :hysterical: So, Dhoni is a specialist keeper, right? When has he won us a test based on his keeping by plucking 4-5 extraordinary dismissals in a match?

Didn't see too many ppl playing the knock Dhoni played against Aus in the conditions he played... or maybe it's the case of "Dhoni scored the runs, must be cr@p" :giggle: I would wait for examples where a wk changed the game by "plucking 4-5 extraordinary dismissals in a match". Maybe Mongia or More were greater match-winners than Dhoni :winky:

[The Outsider]

Didn't see too many ppl playing the knock Dhoni played against Aus in the conditions he played... or maybe it's the case of "Dhoni scored the runs' date=' must be cr@p" :giggle:[/quote'] Yeah, Dhoni's 200 against the current Australian line up at Chennai >= Kapil's 9/83 against the all conquering WI. Lage raho.:hysterical:

[Ultimate_Game]

Yeah, Dhoni's 200 against the current Australian line up at Chennai >= Kapil's 9/83 against the all conquering WI. Lage raho.:hysterical:

Didn't know Dhoni had to bowl as well to prove he's not worthless :hysterical: Or maybe the argument now is that Kapil was a better captain than Dhoni :haha: Earlier... look at how Ganguly was such a better batsman who led from the front. When Dhoni hammered a double ton, "oh look, he didn't have a performance like Kapil's 9/83". Yeah right :giggle:

[carnish]

Which proves the point Dhoni & Ganguly were both decent captains.

They were both decent, but my question still remains. Who was more innovative as a Captain. I am not asking better, just who was more innovative, irrespective of the formats?? You reply to me thinking I am against Dhoni or something and hence replying to something, I aint even asking about. I want to know who was more proactive and imaginative according to you.

[Ultimate_Game]

They were both decent, but my question still remains. Who was more innovative as a Captain. I am not asking better, just who was more innovative, irrespective of the formats?? You reply to me thinking I am against Dhoni or something and hence replying to something, I aint even asking about. I want to know who was more proactive and imaginative according to you.

I have seen both being innovative (the way Dhoni strangled Aus batting in 2008 by coming up with 8-1 field) and both running out of ideas.

[The Outsider]

Didn't know Dhoni had to bowl as well to prove he's not worthless :hysterical: Or maybe the argument now is that Kapil was a better captain than Dhoni :haha: Earlier... look at how Ganguly was such a better batsman who led from the front. When Dhoni hammered a double ton, "oh look, he didn't have a performance like Kapil's 9/83". Yeah right :giggle:

So, why don't you tell us when Dhoni was able to turn a match on it's head leading from the front in his primary role - keeping? And yeah, Kapil was a better captain than Dhoni. He won a WC outside the subcontinent. Please check back here when Dhoni does that. And no, the championship in T20 is called World T20, not World Cup.

[The Outsider]

Dhoni has been the worst long term Indian captain I've seen. In a way I am glad that he has not been sacked by his sugar daddy because they schedule over the next 2-3 years away will demonstrate in stats the true stature of Dhoni's kaptaani when he racks up a couple of more whitewashes and ends up as the India captain with by far the most losses.

[saneindian]

Dhoni has been the worst long term Indian captain I've seen. In a way I am glad that he has not been sacked by his sugar daddy because they schedule over the next 2-3 years away will demonstrate in stats the true stature of Dhoni's kaptaani when he racks up a couple of more whitewashes and ends up as the India captain with by far the most losses.

So when he will have that record, will that still be as inane a number as 22 test wins or most series wins? :winky:

[Sachin=GOD]

this thread has potential