Crookbond Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 In fact IMO it should be AAP' date=' more than BJP or Cong, that should be asked to explain in detail as to how they would go about implementing the 18 points (and others) raised in the letter and in their manifesto.[b'] They should also explain how they would get the funds to provide free water and for Govt. subsidy for lowering electricity prices and how they would make sure that the mohalla sabhas do not become corrupt etc. If they answer these questions satisfactorily (obviously, seeing how out of depth they are regarding these impractical promises, they won't be able to answer the questions) only then should Cong or BJP think of offering them support. Already explained - read their manifesto and countless interviews on TV - they have already answered on free water/electricity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crookbond Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Why should BJP not be asked to explain how it would go about decreasing electricity prices by 30%. Or is it a given that BJP and Congress are so corrupt that they will lie on their manifesto Apparently, you only answer after you win the elections. Whatever you say before the elections is maaf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sachin=GOD Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Apparently' date=' you only answer after you win the elections. Whatever you say before the elections is [i']maaf. ok...so the party which is currently in a position to form the Govt. (i.e. AAP) shouldn't be asked to explain how it will implement its impractical promises. Instead, the party which has said that because of not having the numbers it will not form the Govt. (i.e. BJP) is the one which is being asked to explain how it will implement its manifesto (when clearly it won't be in a position to implement it because of not being able to form the Govt). IMO this is just hypocrisy and arrogance from AAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Tendulkar Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Hazare has sold out Now not anti theieves and corruption One focus now, anti Kejriwal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crookbond Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 ok...so the party which is currently in a position to form the Govt. (i.e. AAP) shouldn't be asked to explain how it will implement its impractical promises. Instead' date=' the party which has said that because of not having the numbers it will not form the Govt. (i.e. BJP) is the one which is being asked to explain how it will implement its manifesto (when clearly it won't be in a position to implement it because of not being able to form the Govt). IMO this is just hypocrisy and arrogance from AAP.[/quote'] AAP has explained even before the elections on how it is going to implement their manifesto. There's a detailed plan for the first 6-months. Please read if you have a hand out. The point I (and I can take the liberty and include ganeshran too) are making is that BJP had promised a 30% reduction of electricity rates in their manifesto. I have not seen ANY discussion on asking how they plan to do the same even before the election. Everyone had started pointing fingers towards AAP with their electricity policies before the elections. Not even one finger was raised at BJP which "ganeshran" was pointing out. Let me give you some information on water supply policy by AAP. Delhi Jal Board is baking 300+crores of profit. In addition, there is a water tanker mafia which charges about Rs/-1800 per household everyday. I have personally seen this too - within a 3km radius from Rashtrapati Bhavan there's a serious shortage of water. Also, Delhi is water surplus but there is inequitable distribution of water supply in Delhi. Here is what current MLA from the INC does - lG67iYOs5Z0 All the above factors combined AAP promises x litres of water per household (x=700 is their initial proposition and can be changed later - this is in detailed clarified in their manifesto too). Now if the consumption increased beyond x and lets say it is x+1 - you have to pay for the entire x+1. This encourages water waste management as you always want to be http://www.business-standard.com/article/opinion/t-n-ninan-is-delhi-s-power-too-costly-113112901070_1.html I wouldn't discredit the above article prima facie because it has numbers, calculations and analysis. The FP article which you posted above is hollow rhetoric and the same website carries a diametrically opposite article as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganeshran Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 ok...so the party which is currently in a position to form the Govt. (i.e. AAP) shouldn't be asked to explain how it will implement its impractical promises. Instead' date=' the party which has said that because of not having the numbers it will not form the Govt. (i.e. BJP) is the one which is being asked to explain how it will implement its manifesto (when clearly it won't be in a position to implement it because of not being able to form the Govt). IMO this is just hypocrisy and arrogance from AAP.[/quote'] BJP is in the best position to form the government even now. In any other election, there would have been underhand deals to secure the support of the 4 more MLAs needed. It is painfully obvious that the reason they don't want to do so is to avoid having to face any criticism on their governance in the run up to Lok Sabha elections, especially because they realize that there is no magic wand to wave and bring down the prices, and havin AAP in opposition could be a headache. AAP doesnt want to form the government because it fought the election on an anti-congress agenda and their core voter base would never forgive them. They also don't want to be held responsible for re-elections and hence are making unreasonable demands which will be rejected so that some of the blame for re-elections will be shfited to Congress/BJP. They have been maneuvered into a tight political corner and are trying to salvage what they can. Everything else in this discussion is faux political outrage and using AAP's demand letter to claim they are unfit to govern is ridiculous, especially since the most incompetent of politicians have been able to do a passable job of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulbul Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 I thought AAP is a honest/moral party & BJP is immoral and dishonesty :giggle: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theindian Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 Its a good turn over in politics..if we consider and surly can say that the yought is doing great, they are just awaked and using thier rights towards us. This is true to say that Kejriwal did a great effort, but the results comes because of awareness of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sachin=GOD Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 BJP is in the best position to form the government even now. In any other election, there would have been underhand deals to secure the support of the 4 more MLAs needed. It is painfully obvious that the reason they don't want to do so is to avoid having to face any criticism on their governance in the run up to Lok Sabha elections, especially because they realize that there is no magic wand to wave and bring down the prices, and havin AAP in opposition could be a headache. AAP doesnt want to form the government because it fought the election on an anti-congress agenda and their core voter base would never forgive them. They also don't want to be held responsible for re-elections and hence are making unreasonable demands which will be rejected so that some of the blame for re-elections will be shfited to Congress/BJP. They have been maneuvered into a tight political corner and are trying to salvage what they can. Everything else in this discussion is faux political outrage and using AAP's demand letter to claim they are unfit to govern is ridiculous, especially since the most incompetent of politicians have been able to do a passable job of it. you say that BJP was best placed to form the Govt but to me it seems like the only real option they had was horse trading (since coalition with Cong was out of the question and AAP already said that it would not offer support to any party). Now you seem to be criticizing BJP for running away from Govt. formation while in the past you have also criticized the practice of horse trading for Govt. formation. So please tell me what other way apart from horse trading was was there for BJP to form the Govt, and if there was no other way then I don't see how BJP can be blamed for not forming the Govt. Completely agree there. I haven't used AAp's political letter to claim they are unfit for governing. I am simply saying that since they are asking other parties to explain how they will implement the 18 points then why should AAP itself not be asked the same question because after all it is their manifesto and their promises. Many people have raised questions over the impractical and in many cases, unimplementable promises they have made. Seeing that AAP had campaigned so vigorously for open Govt, now why shouldn't they answer all questions raised over their manifesto before deciding about Govt. formation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sachin=GOD Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 AAP has explained even before the elections on how it is going to implement their manifesto. There's a detailed plan for the first 6-months. Please read if you have a hand out. The point I (and I can take the liberty and include ganeshran too) are making is that BJP had promised a 30% reduction of electricity rates in their manifesto. I have not seen ANY discussion on asking how they plan to do the same even before the election. Everyone had started pointing fingers towards AAP with their electricity policies before the elections. Not even one finger was raised at BJP which "ganeshran" was pointing out. Let me give you some information on water supply policy by AAP. Delhi Jal Board is baking 300+crores of profit. In addition, there is a water tanker mafia which charges about Rs/-1800 per household everyday. I have personally seen this too - within a 3km radius from Rashtrapati Bhavan there's a serious shortage of water. Also, Delhi is water surplus but there is inequitable distribution of water supply in Delhi. Here is what current MLA from the INC does - lG67iYOs5Z0 All the above factors combined AAP promises x litres of water per household (x=700 is their initial proposition and can be changed later - this is in detailed clarified in their manifesto too). Now if the consumption increased beyond x and lets say it is x+1 - you have to pay for the entire x+1. This encourages water waste management as you always want to be <= x. None of this is currently followed. In addition, AAP plans a water meter system which will reduce wrong bills and if there are wrong bills one can get it turned off within a 1-3 day window. Currently, you need to pay your water bills and it is only 1-3 months later that you can get a refund. All and many more of these things are written in their manifesto. Rather than succumbing to the media sound bytes (since you have watched House of Cards remember "disorganized labor"? ) it will be best if you read and form your own opinion. I can put up many such questions for the BJP since it still has 32 MLAs in the house and it has been managing MCD for the past 3 terms. Don't call it out "impractical" before you thoroughly analyze if it is impractical. For example, here is an article which says 50% reduction in power prices is difficult or improbable - http://www.business-standard.com/article/opinion/t-n-ninan-is-delhi-s-power-too-costly-113112901070_1.html I wouldn't discredit the above article prima facie because it has numbers, calculations and analysis. The FP article which you posted above is hollow rhetoric and the same website carries a diametrically opposite article as well. my point here is simple - BJP has said that they will not form the Govt. Since they will not form the Govt, it means that they will also not be able to implement their manifesto. So why exactly are they being asked to explain their stand on the 18 points (a lot of which are from the AAP manifesto). As you may know, I have been against AAP (and in particular Kejriwal) for a long time now and I don't really need the Indian media to help me form an opinion on this matter. I still believe that AAP and its leadership is politically naive, their utopian ideas are mostly impractical and most importantly - the success they have enjoyed in such a short period (here I am talking about the last few months and not just since the results came out) has made them, and particularly Kejriwal, arrogant. I do hope they form the Govt. right now so they people come to know how out of touch with political reality they actually are. I am all for change and professionalism in politics but IMO AAP is not the party which can bring about that change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sachin=GOD Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 ToI says that AAP will write 25 lakh letters to hte people of Delhi to know their opinion about Govt. formation "People can call, send SMS or give their opinion on party's website till Sunday, Kejriwal said. Depending on the responses, the party will decide on Monday the next step on govt formation. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crookbond Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 my point here is simple - BJP has said that they will not form the Govt. Since they will not form the Govt, it means that they will also not be able to implement their manifesto. So why exactly are they being asked to explain their stand on the 18 points (a lot of which are from the AAP manifesto). BJP said they will offer issue based support. AAP merely asked on what issues of their manifesto would BJP offer their support? I never knew writing a letter to for clarification is such a sin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganeshran Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 you say that BJP was best placed to form the Govt but to me it seems like the only real option they had was horse trading (since coalition with Cong was out of the question and AAP already said that it would not offer support to any party). Now you seem to be criticizing BJP for running away from Govt. formation while in the past you have also criticized the practice of horse trading for Govt. formation. So please tell me what other way apart from horse trading was was there for BJP to form the Govt, and if there was no other way then I don't see how BJP can be blamed for not forming the Govt. Just like coalition was Congress was out of question for BJP, it was a similarly hard pill to swallow for AAP, even more so because they are a fledgling party without any fixed support base. You are ignoring the fact that AAP rode to their performance on an anti-incumbency wave against Congress. Even if they opt for a congress coalition now, they are finished in the next elections. BJP is not a doodh ki dhuli party which fights elections on honesty and principle- they are corrupt like everyone else. The reason they didnt try any tricks this time and were the first ones to give up was that they didnt want to form a government. They could have gotten the independent supports and bid for government formation and let AAP/Congress take the fall for making the government fall, but the option not to was taken in face of General elections 2014 and AAP in the opposition - It was a political posturing. Your absolving of BJP for making impractical poll promises just because they fell 3 seats short of the half way mark makes no sense at all, because AAP is not forming the government either, regardless of whether they have the option of Congress support. It is clear that political parties lie on their manifesto and don't do a lot of stuff they promise. AAP is no different in this regard. They promised utopia because they didn't have any hope of making the government. BJP offered Utopia Lite because they weren't sure of making the government either. Electricity prices are not going to come down by even 10% because the government already provides power at a loss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crookbond Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 ToI says that AAP will write 25 lakh letters to hte people of Delhi to know their opinion about Govt. formation "People can call, send SMS or give their opinion on party's website till Sunday, Kejriwal said. Depending on the responses, the party will decide on Monday the next step on govt formation. " OK - you win! :nervous: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sachin=GOD Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 OK - you win! :nervous: ab literally opinion poll se Dilli ki sarkar banegi :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganeshran Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 AAP is between the devil and deep blue sea. They either take the support of Congress and damage their core support base, or refuse to form government and take the blame for reelections. They are trying to go for any option which leads to less long term political damage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crookbond Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 ab literally opinion poll se Dilli ki sarkar banegi :D :orderorder: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sachin=GOD Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 :orderorder: AAP's opinion poll question - How do you think Aam Aadmi Party should get screwed : 1. by forming Govt. with Cong and having its image tarnished. 2. by not forming Govt. and being blamed for re-election. Plz vote with you conscience :--D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulbul Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 ^ Can you make it as a poal here.:--D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sachin=GOD Posted December 17, 2013 Share Posted December 17, 2013 ^ Can you make it as a poal here.:--D great idea!!! @Mods/Admins - plz add a poal to this thread (or to the Kejriwal thread) and sticky the thread in the Chit-Chat section till Sunday (last day for voting). Question for poll - should AAP form a Govt. in Delhi with the support of Cong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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