Viv Richards vs. Dennis Lillee

[Holysmoke]

Lets take it one by one. Skill levels go up. How? Compare Richards and Ponting and prove your point.

Was Richards ever analysed as much as say tendulkar, or ponting is? No. Simply because, they didnt have the technology to do so.

Second where did 50 overs come from? Is your argument limited to LOI?

That part of my argument was.

Thirdly Aussies save 30 runs, name me 5 good Aussie fielders and then name me 5 solid West Indies fielders that you know and then we shall talk.

Are you serious? Flat "baseball type" throws, diving stops around the boundary line, relay throws, etc were non existent at that time. Are u seriously trying to tell me that the Windies team would outfield the aussies? :hysterical:

[Bongosamaj]

Dude they couldnt even win a series against Pak ... in their own times ... what makes you think they would win automatically against the Aussies ...

Categoric LIE. West Indies defeated Pakistan in a series in 1977 and West Indies won IN Pakistan in 1981. yet another lie, lies exposed.

[Holysmoke]

True' date=' stuff of the kind Bradman dished out cannot be represented by stats.... however the 99 average is just a mere hint of his total domination of the cricket world itself over 2 decades both sides of the war, a small indication for us to just imagine what it must have been like[/quote'] Ofcourse. He was FAR FAR FAR ahead of his contemporaries. But if we have a time machine, and get the "young bradman" of then to now, he wouldnt average 99.94 over 20 years.

[Tugga]

I personally dont think that its the players.... just the fact that a protective gear like a helmet (esp. helmets) just gives u that extra bit of "Safe" feeling..and u can just maybe take ur eyes off and go hell bent for leather...!!! I am sure if Steve waugh, Sachin, Lara weren't brought up with helmets then they wud ve adapted just like the old time greats...!!!

[Guest HariSampath]

why because they lost ... and we won ... oohh such a crime isnt it ... :haha: yeah even those guys were beatable as was proven by Pak players .. and BTW Walsh Amby and Bishop were just as good as any of those 4 ...

No , not because we won, but how we "managed" to win... anyways... I have seen all the Windies teams from 1975 through 1989, and even if some teams were beaten on some days, that is not the point. By those standards, even this Aussie team has been beaten in the Ashes 2 seasons back, and also by NZ in ODI s . When we say " a great team from one era plays another", its a subjective study of how they would have played on their best days with the teams on the top of their forms

[Bongosamaj]

But if we have a time machine, and get the "young bradman" of then to now, he wouldnt average 99.94 over 20 years

ofcourse not. But if we had a time machine and dropped Tendulkar or Lara in the 1930s, it's silly to think they'd get anywhere close to averaging 99.99

[Holysmoke]

ofcourse not. But if we had a time machine and dropped Tendulkar or Lara in the 1930s, it's silly to think they'd get anywhere close to averaging 99.99

Did I say they would? But they would probably fare much worse, compared to what they are now. (No Hamlets :hysterical:)

[Guest HariSampath]

Ofcourse. He was FAR FAR FAR ahead of his contemporaries. But if we have a time machine' date=' and get the "young bradman" of then to now, he wouldnt average 99.94 over 20 years.[/quote'] Why not ? Just imagine that the same Don Bradman with the identical physical skills and mental cricketing abilities, was born and raised in this era of helmets, night cricket, modern bats and 30 yard circlres and field restrictions , plus covered wickets, bowlers like Agarkar everywhere... LOL..... he would have retired after averaging 150 in ODIs , after 5 years cos he would have been bored sick

[Holysmoke]

Why not ? Just imagine that the same Don Bradman with the identical physical skills and mental cricketing abilities' date=' was born and raised in this era of helmets, night cricket, modern bats and 30 yard circlres and field restrictions , plus covered wickets, bowlers like Agarkar everywhere... LOL..... he would have retired after averaging 150 in ODIs , after 5 years cos he would have been bored sick[/quote'] OK. You think he would've averaged 150 in ODI's. I dont think there's any point in discussing this further...

[Lurker]

Was Richards ever analysed as much as say tendulkar, or ponting is? No. Simply because, they didnt have the technology to do so.

Wow! Not only are you ignorant, pardon my french, but you are also pompuos. Let me ask you, what makes you think Viv Richards was not analyzed as much? Is there a method to your madness or are you just thinking technology = analysis?

Are you serious? Flat "baseball type" throws, diving stops around the boundary line, relay throws, etc were non existent at that time. Are u seriously trying to tell me that the Windies team would outfield the aussies?

Again I do realize that a) You never saw 80s West Indies b) You never took time to improve on your knoweldge(or lack of it). c) You never read about this chaps. So the question again - Name me 5 Aussie fielders, then name me 5 West Indies and then we will compare. Alright? Now give me the name so we can get somewhere. xxx

[Holysmoke]

Wow! Not only are you ignorant, pardon my french, but you are also pompuos. Let me ask you, what makes you think Viv Richards was not analyzed as much? Is there a method to your madness or are you just thinking technology = analysis?

The technology we have now, was not available then. Have you seen the kind of analysis that goes on? The hours and hours of footage? Where exactly the ball pitched, what response he had. What response does he have when the ball pitches 6 inches ahead. Tell me something. Do you think that Richards was analysed as much as Tendulkar or Ganguly? Yes or No. Answer my question please. ?

Again I do realize that a) You never saw 80s West Indies b) You never took time to improve on your knoweldge(or lack of it). c) You never read about this chaps. So the question again - Name me 5 Aussie fielders, then name me 5 West Indies and then we will compare. Alright? Now give me the name so we can get somewhere. xxx

Here's what i wrote earlier... Are you serious? Flat "baseball type" throws, diving stops around the boundary line, relay throws, etc were non existent at that time. Are u seriously trying to tell me that the Windies team would outfield the aussies What you've written is garbage. Personal attack? I have seen quite a few videos on them. More than a few. You havent answered my question, neither acknowledged my points. You asked me for points, I provided them, you ignored them. Great. Please answer my question. Do you think the Windies team would outfield the aussie team? Yes/No. As for your question, there were really no outstanding fielders except richards, lloyd, and harper. The others were good, but nothing extraordinary. In this aussie team, those 3 can be easily matched by Ponting, Symonds, and Clarke. But there is something you dont realise. The basic level of fielding has gone up considerably. Were there the kind of diving stops that you see nowadays? 2 people chasing the ball, 1 of them sliding and pulling it back in, the other throwing it to the stumps? In other words, do you not think the bar has been raised? If it has been raised, are you trying to tell me that the Windies team was that good, at that time, that they would outfield some of the best fielders in the world, even after the raised bar?

[Guest HariSampath]

Categoric LIE. West Indies defeated Pakistan in a series in 1977 and West Indies won IN Pakistan in 1981. yet another lie, lies exposed.

Yeah, with Richards getting a brilliant hundred against Imran's 6 wkt haul to win the game for windies, in 81

[Lurker]

Are you serious? Flat "baseball type" throws, diving stops around the boundary line, relay throws, etc were non existent at that time. Are u seriously trying to tell me that the Windies team would outfield the aussies?

Again, do you know anything about 70s/80s cricket AT ALL?? Quite this "are you serious" business. Can you categorically say - West Indies of 70s/80s fielding was cr@p because you have SEEN it ? And if you can then go ahead and do it and then I shall show you why your statement is bs. Till then quit this "are you serious routine"

As for your question, there were really no outstanding fielders except richards, lloyd, and harper. The others were nothing extraordinary. In this aussie team, those 3 can be easily matched by Ponting, Symonds, and Clarke. But there is something you dont realise.

Much better now. So what makes you think Viv Richards was any less than Ponting? Or Clarke is much better than Harper(that truly has to be the joke of the day but hey..). Since you are so adamant in suggesting Aussies are better, please tell me where you are coming from Holy baba.

he basic level of fielding has gone up considerably. Were there the kind of diving stops that you see nowadays? 2 people chasing the ball, 1 of them sliding and pulling it back in, the other throwing it to the stumps? In other words, do you not think the bar has been raised? If it has been raised, are you trying to tell me that the Windies team was that good, at that time, that they would outfield some of the best fielders in the world, even after the raised bar?

Blah blah blah. Irrelevant. Get back to topic and compare Windies and Aussies players man-o-mano. Stop bsing about what has gone up or what has come down. xxx

[Guest HariSampath]

The technology we have now, was not available then. Have you seen the kind of analysis that goes on? The hours and hours of footage? Where exactly the ball pitched, what response he had. What response does he have when the ball pitches 6 inches ahead. Tell me something. Do you think that Richards was analysed as much as Tendulkar or Ganguly? Yes or No. Answer my question please. ? Here's what i wrote earlier... Are you serious? Flat "baseball type" throws, diving stops around the boundary line, relay throws, etc were non existent at that time. Are u seriously trying to tell me that the Windies team would outfield the aussies What you've written is garbage. Personal attack? I have seen quite a few videos on them. More than a few. You havent answered my question, neither acknowledged my points. You asked me for points, I provided them, you ignored them. Great. Please answer my question. Do you think the Windies team would outfield the aussie team? Yes/No. As for your question, there were really no outstanding fielders except richards, lloyd, and harper. The others were good, but nothing extraordinary. In this aussie team, those 3 can be easily matched by Ponting, Symonds, and Clarke. But there is something you dont realise. The basic level of fielding has gone up considerably. Were there the kind of diving stops that you see nowadays? 2 people chasing the ball, 1 of them sliding and pulling it back in, the other throwing it to the stumps? In other words, do you not think the bar has been raised? If it has been raised, are you trying to tell me that the Windies team was that good, at that time, that they would outfield some of the best fielders in the world, even after the raised bar?

One small example, the very first WC final in 1975. Get the videos and take a look at the 3 runouts by Richards.... Have you seen Lloyd field ? Greenidge catch ? Harper's catching ? Their fast bowlers' throws ? If not, you have seen nothing

[Lurker]

Tell me something. Do you think that Richards was analysed as much as Tendulkar or Ganguly? Yes or No. Answer my question please.

Ganguly is cr@p, he doesnt deserve any mention in all-time great teams list so keep him away. Was Richards analyzed as much as SRT? Of course he was. You are being plain stupid if you think teams of 80s just turned up to play without a game plan. In fact I will make the argument that they worked even harder because they did not have any technology. Very similar to how Indian doctors, in general, are considered better than their Western counterparts because they work without technology at their fingertips! Do you realize that Viv Richards was so incessantly bounced by Denniss Lillee and Jeff Thomson, at their fastest, that he ended up at the Pshyciatrist? What was that? A Valentine Day's love card? xxxx

[Holysmoke]

Blah blah blah. Irrelevant. Get back to topic and compare Windies and Aussies players man-o-mano. Stop bsing about what has gone up or what has come down. xxx

Care to tell me how it is irrelevant, as compared to just dismissing it like this? Answer my question, then I'll answer yours. Do you think the bar has been raised or not. Do you think the windies team of the 80's would outfield australia of current day.

[Lurker]

One small example, the very first WC final in 1975. Get the videos and take a look at the 3 runouts by Richards.... Have you seen Lloyd field ? Greenidge catch ? Harper's catching ? Their fast bowlers' throws ? If not, you have seen nothing

That would quickly come to mind. Quite simply it is the greatest fielding by a player in WC finals...and just so we are clear Ponting has played in 3 of those, perhaps Symonds too. Yeah sure the standards have gone up!! :haha:

[Guest HariSampath]

Anyways....if batsmen of succeeding generations are always "more skillful", lets replace the big 3 with the Rohit Sharmas, Tiwaris etc :D

[Lurker]

Do you think the bar has been raised or not. Do you think the windies team of the 80's would outfield australia of current day.

You need to go to sleep Holy baba. I have mentioned very categorically in my first post(in this topic) that Windies shall beat the living daylights of today;s Aussie team. And if I am not mistaken you came out swinging with a "thats a bs statement" or something of sorts.

[head coach]

Richards took most of bowlers to cleaners regardless of how mighty they were. Viv Richards is one of the reasons I liked the game of Cricket. Most of the guys in this forum has never watched him play. Sadly they have only seen one legend play that is Sachin Tendulkar Here is a piece from BBC about Sir Viv nN2ZXL7zLvE