Ganguly Must Go !

[Ram]

So, what you are asking for is an isolated stat pertaining to his batting average,not keeping in mind the pitches/bowlers/outcome of the series ? Dont you see how hard that is to commit ? Still, i see where you are coming from. I will stick my neck out and say that Sachin will average more than 40 against Pak to begin with ( with the catch that if it is going to like the english series where he made two vital contributions and yet ave less than 40 and you shouldnt come running like a kid with a "see i told you") Is that a deal ?

[Bumper]

So, what you are asking for is an isolated stat pertaining to his batting average,not keeping in mind the pitches/bowlers/outcome of the series ? Dont you see how hard that is to commit ?

So you are saying, Hayden, Lara & Ponting did not go thru such degree of difficulties to come back from their droughts ? Do you recall the 3 test series in which Lara scored over 600 runs against freakish Murali ? Easy conditions I suppose. If its so hard to commit to a paltry average of 40 (after 2 poor years) (make that 45 now, since Asif is out), it should be even harder to commit to a test spot for an over-the-hill senior, who shows no signs of a comeback.

Still, i see where you are coming from. I will stick my neck out and say that Sachin will average more than 40 against Pak to begin with ( with the catch that if it is going to like the english series where he made two vital contributions and yet ave less than 40 and you shouldnt come running like a kid with a "see i told you") Is that a deal ?

Without Asif, i want him to average 45 in this series & 40 in the next three (Ind-Pak, Ind-Aus, Ind-SA) put together. If he does, I'll stop harping on his form, immediately. If he doesnt, will you stop making excuses for him ?

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[Ram]

So you are saying' date=' Hayden, Lara & Ponting did not go thru such degree of difficulties to come back from their droughts ? Do you recall the 3 test series in which Lara scored over 600 runs against freakish Murali ? Easy conditions I suppose.[/quote'] This is about why Sachin was persisted despite his "poor" numbers and what should we expect from him in the coming series. Lets stick to that. The comparisons with other players wont take us anywhere.

If its so hard to commit to a paltry average of 40 (after 2 poor years) (make that 45 now, since Asif is out), it should be even harder to commit to a test spot for an over-the-hill senior, who shows no signs of a comeback.

45 ? :haha: What next ? Shoaib bowled a bad first spell , therefore he must average 46.3 ? We need to agree to a FIXED benchmark , NOW. There is no point making exceptions. 40 it is for me, For you ?

Without Asif' date=' i want him to average 45 in this series & 40 in the next three (Ind-Pak, Ind-Aus, Ind-SA) put together. If he does, I'll stop harping on his form, immediately. If he doesnt, will you stop making excuses for him ?[/quote'] If he fails , i will join in your chorus asking for a re-consideration of his test spot, but not if its like the Eng series, where he ave less than 40 and played VITAL roles in atleast 2 of the 3 tests and helped us secure our first series victory england in 21 years. How does that sound to you ?

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[Bumper]

But you just said the sample size was small in a series .... :D

You are purposely muddling this up, arent you ? Keep doing it, to see if u can get me confused, eventually ?:haha: Extending this funny argument, isnt every future series to be played a sample size of one & therefore irrelevant ? I see how you are building your excuses to dismiss every future series.:haha: Sample size of 25 that we looked at, helped us short list our worst performers (Tendu leads this list). The next 3 series, is the payback time for backing him for all this time. Your examples ( or whoever quoted those) of Hayden, Ponting, Lara were all easy to find. Now comes the hard part, they all paid back their backing with interest. Lara had a glorious decade post 2000, Punter hasnt stopped scoring runs for close to 5 years, Hayden has scored mountains of runs ever since.

[Lurker]

I know , the sampling size is poor, but we keep saying that again and again because you keep coming up with magic stat of 40 , when it is abundantly clear that Sachin , even though averaging less than 40 in the english test series , played a pivotal role in our win , as acknowledged by every past cricketer worth his salt. Now , how about throwing the "he must ave above 40" logic through the window ?

Sriram, I beleive I had asked this question before but Sachin supporters just went into a hiding, so I shall put forth the same question to you all over again. Hopefully you wont disappoint me this time. Q > For the past 25 Tests Sachin has scored 1347 runs@35.4. Clearly Indian selectors/fans have paid him for his past services. Now what should an Indian fan expect Sachin to score in the next 25 Tests to repay the faith? xxx

[DesiChap]

Sriram, I beleive I had asked this question before but Sachin supporters just went into a hiding, so I shall put forth the same question to you all over again. Hopefully you wont disappoint me this time. Q > For the past 25 Tests Sachin has scored 1347 runs@35.4. Clearly Indian selectors/fans have paid him for his past services. Now what should an Indian fan expect Sachin to score in the next 25 Tests to repay the faith? xxx

SRT has to be among the top-3 average for Indian batsman playing the same tests

[Lurker]

SRT has to be among the top-3 average for Indian batsman playing the same tests

Bade bhai please give some numbers to help your case. Sachin has 25 Tests 38 innings 1347 runs@35. What does India deserve in next 25 Tests?

[Bumper]

Not made up but you conveniently ignored to mention the fact that SRT didnt play in the WI and hence you couldnt take runs from past n innings as it would put him at a disadvantage ... This is why I put up the last n innings where all your heroes and SRT played together ....

But even the last 'n' innings u put up didnt make your case stronger. If anything it only made it weaker, showing up SRT as the lone bat, who was backed inspite of his horrible form.

The stat I was refering to was the one that goes from the last years SAF series onwards which is what determines recent form .... unless you want to say we need to go back 2 years .... for which I have no response .... as it doesnt deserve one ... No freakin team looks at what a player did 2 years ago to determine whether he needs to be included in the team. Going by that logic Dravid , Irphu and Sehwag are our current best players ... :haha:

Sehwag & Irphu have been dropped already. We backed SRT for 2 years over 25 innings during his poor run. Dravid has WON A LOT MORE than SRT in Tests & is being backed (not for 25 innings) but for a bad patch spread over 2 series. Every player goes thru a bad patch, but great players manage to come out of it quickly & pay back big time. Using your argument, you are always going to find some batsman who is worse than SRT. But over an extended period of time, even if SRT is the worst, u wanna keep playing him ? Beats me :haha: When is he gonna pay us back for the backing he received ? When i say pay us back, have a big series, not an avg of 36, being 4th in the run scorers list.

And BTW since when did being 120 runs short from the top performer over 25 innings count as a sackable offense ?

120 runs over 25 innings (with some not outs factored in) is close to a avg differential of 10 points. Not trivial by any stretch of imagination. We've already been thru all this before havent we ? U brought up not outs etc as an excuse and i retorted that SRT failed to cash in, in similar situations.

So all it comes down to is you want Tendulkar dropped because of his failures 18 months ago ?

Good that you asked me a point blank question. I am ok with backing him for a poor run, but he must: 1) Show signs of ending that drought, which he hasnt 2) Show that he can score BIG when he gets in, which he doesnt 3) Show that he can win games in tough situations that rookies cannot (Capetown or Durban like situation), which he doesnt. So why should i back him ? Now you tell me, why do you back him ?

I never made any comments previously on Technique but FWIW ... if it worked the way you are describing it .. Sanjay Manjrekar would have had the best Avg and a sexy batting record of all Indian batsmen.

Technique was never my fav topic. I only brought it up so i can squash this excuse.

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[DesiChap]

I will not go as far as 25 tests. For the next 7 tests, 3 against Pakistan and 4 against Australia, I expect an average of around 50. That being said is the top average for an Indian bat is 55 and SRT is next best at 45 would you drop him?

[Ram]

Sriram, I beleive I had asked this question before but Sachin supporters just went into a hiding, so I shall put forth the same question to you all over again. Hopefully you wont disappoint me this time. Q > For the past 25 Tests Sachin has scored 1347 runs@35.4. Clearly Indian selectors/fans have paid him for his past services. Now what should an Indian fan expect Sachin to score in the next 25 Tests to repay the faith? xxx

My answer to that wont be a math/stat based one, but an objective one. I would want Sachin play Matchwinning/Match-saving roles in the following series. And what that match-winning/match-saving , I am willing to sit down and discuss with you without bias once the series is over. Seriously Lurks , would you expect Sachin to ave a 65 in such a type of series , 2002-2003 , Ind in NZ First test, http://usa.cricinfo.com/link_to_database/ARCHIVE/2002-03/IND_IN_NZ/SCORECARDS/IND_NZ_T1_12-16DEC2002.html Second test , http://usa.cricinfo.com/link_to_database/ARCHIVE/2002-03/IND_IN_NZ/SCORECARDS/IND_NZ_T2_19-23DEC2002.html The objective part of my assesment goes like this , Say Sachin scored a 72 in the 2nd innings of the 2nd test, helped India to a 225 and we won by bowling out NZ for less than the the 230 target, Sachin would have still averaged 36.5 in that series. Would you still want him to be dropped then ? Which is precisely why i say we shall sit down AFTER every series over and discuss his contribution, rather than keeping obscure bench-marks now.

[Bumper]

This is about why Sachin was persisted despite his "poor" numbers and what should we expect from him in the coming series. Lets stick to that. The comparisons with other players wont take us anywhere.

Sheesh, what a copout :haha:. Guess who brought up these comparisons in this thread. :haha:

45 ? :haha: What next ? Shoaib bowled a bad first spell , therefore he must average 46.3 ? We need to agree to a FIXED benchmark , NOW. There is no point making exceptions. 40 it is for me, For you ?

I agreed to a 40 run average over the next THREE SERIES (Ind-Pak, Ind-Aus, Ind-SA). Without Asif Pak has lost half its bowling lineup and i will go on to say this is the WORST PAK TEAM to tour India. It beats the 2005 team hands down. Not scoring at 45 against this team, would be disappointing even for an Irfan Pathan

If he fails , i will join in your chorus asking for a re-consideration of his test spot, but not if its like the Eng series, where he ave less than 40 and played VITAL roles in atleast 2 of the 3 tests and helped us secure our first series victory england in 21 years. How does that sound to you ?

Deal if he hits the numbers! :finger:, otherwise!

[Lurker]

I had answered that question and the answer was sport isnt a faculty where you can use predictive techniques to come up with futuristic scenarios .... else Bradman would surely have gotten 4 runs in his last innings. Heck would you be able to provide me just the list of grounds , oppostion playing 11 and pitch conditions for those next 25 tests that SRT would play ? ( Unless ofcourse you think that those are inconsequential parameters in Test Cricket ) Forget next 25 lets try next 3 Tests ... whats the pitch like at Kotla,B'lore and Kolkatta will Shoaib , Gul and Tanveer play ? or will it be someone else ? See the problem ?

Long story short - no you dont have the answer. Thought so. xxx

[Lurker]

My answer to that wont be a math/stat based one, but an objective one. I would want Sachin play Matchwinning/Match-saving roles in the following series. And what that match-winning/match-saving , I am willing to sit down and discuss with you without bias once the series is over. Seriously Lurks , would you expect Sachin to ave a 65 in such a type of series , 2002-2003 , Ind in NZ First test, http://usa.cricinfo.com/link_to_database/ARCHIVE/2002-03/IND_IN_NZ/SCORECARDS/IND_NZ_T1_12-16DEC2002.html Second test , http://usa.cricinfo.com/link_to_database/ARCHIVE/2002-03/IND_IN_NZ/SCORECARDS/IND_NZ_T2_19-23DEC2002.html The objective part of my assesment goes like this , Say Sachin scored a 72 in the 2nd innings of the 2nd test, helped India to a 225 and we won by bowling out NZ for less than the the 230 target, Sachin would have still averaged 36.5 in that series. Would you still want him to be dropped then ? Which is precisely why i say we shall sit down AFTER every series over and discuss his contribution, rather than keeping obscure bench-marks now.

It is a very simple question Sriram, lets not beat about the bush here. 25 Tests 38 innings 1347 runs@35.4 What does India get in the next 25 Tests 38 innings for putting so much faith in Sachin? xxxx

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[RajaRaja]

bussibucks vbmenu_register("postmenu_245796", true); - I am really sick , very sick of Ganguly. By the way are you Chandidas or Snehashish ?

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --