Badrinath should be next in line

[bharat297]

Yeah' date=' hilarious. You know what's even funnier ? Not once have i mentioned anything about Yuvraj Singh in any of my posts in this thread - YOU are the one who has been w anking relentlessly over him by bringing him up in every other post you make. Me thinks you are a little obsessed with him, eh Mrs. Bharati Badrinath Chywanprash ?[/quote'] How old are you? Seriously ... welcome to an adult discussion !!! I would like to know if it is possible for you to participate in an open debate without juvenile behaviour such as this. This is a free forum where people with differing views can argue their points. Now if you cant participate in such a thing without immature childish name-calling ... then its better that you dont say anything because when you post stuff like this it only embarrasses you.

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[fineleg]

Chandan, What would you want Badri to achieve before he can get into Tests? Forget asking him to score in "challenger trophy" etc. -- I am not talking abt ODIs - only Test format. So, he scores in domestics, he scores in 4-day formats vs South Africa-A etc. What do you want him to do? Score in 4-day or 5-day format vs Stuart Clark, Mohd. Asif, Brett Lee et al? But how? They dont play in local or A-team matches! He has done good in domestics and vs A-teams in 4 or 5-day type format. IMO - if he is given 5-8 Test matches - after that we can evaluate. He has earned that right. As per you, he has not earned that right. Ok, how does he earn it? What opportunity should he shine in before you will accept he should be tried in 5-8 Tests?

[praveenj]

hey finey, the problem is not that he under-achieved in the domestic or not good enough to play at the top, but the chance for him to get selected is so less because of our bench-strength... if a player had to be replaced now in our team, we already have plenty of choices.... i don't think badrinath can be replaced ahead of gambhir, sreesanth, murali karthik, rp singh, yuvi who all are in the team's bench... and outside you have players like sehwag, agarkar etc...

[bharat297]

hey finey, the problem is not that he under-achieved in the domestic or not good enough to play at the top, but the chance for him to get selected is so less because of our bench-strength... if a player had to be replaced now in our team, we already have plenty of choices.... i don't think badrinath can be replaced ahead of gambhir, sreesanth, murali karthik, rp singh, yuvi who all are in the team's bench... and outside you have players like sehwag, agarkar etc...

This is not about his realistic chances but whether he should be there. Gambhir and Sehwag are openers so as far as middle order positions go Yuvraj and Badrinath are the next few options so it was more about whether Badrinath should be higher than Yuvraj in the pecking order for a Test middle order position.

[praveenj]

it is still not convincing for me whether to rate badri over yuvi for a test place..... yuvi is an imposing batsman and that whom you want at #6 and #7... however, i'll stick to yuvraj singh ahead of badrinath...

[fineleg]

Gambhir in Test match still a bit suspect. For middle order we are debating YS vs Badri. I know becos of pressure YS will get selected. But still debating ... For ODI YS is clear leader...not so for TEST matches

[praveenj]

well, for longer prospects, team may go for Yuvi rather than Badrinath, but I don't see anything wrong in trying out a new guy. But time should permit as well... he can't be included for Aus series... may be after that...

[bharat297]

The reason I went with Badrinath is that he has the patience to hang tight ... in Tests you dont always get periods where the runs are free flowing ... sometimes you really get strangled, but the quality players can emerge from these periods and make big innings ... I have my doubts as to whether Yuvraj can play those types of innings as well as his swashbuckling hard-hitting style. I am not saying Yuvraj will never play Tests, I am just saying at the moment I would perhaps go with Badrinath.

[praveenj]

Well, I am wondering about the topic now... is it "whether Badri should be selected ahead of Yuvi[striked out - understood]" or is it "whether can be selected"... He can be selected soon, IMO he may not carry for long.... look at what happened to Laxman... everybody is on him.... but with Yuvi, yes, he may fail in some innings, he is such kind of batsman who can turn around matches on their heads and if he does that a couple of occasions, it will become so difficult for our selectors to take him out of the team....

[fineleg]

How do you know Badri is not resilient praveen? How do you think Badri will not bounce back from a difficult position? I dont know the answer either, but we have to give him a decent run of Tests and only then we can evaluate all that. All we are saying is he has earned the right to be given a decent run - thats all. After that he may succeed or fail. That has to be evaluated as next step.

[bharat297]

The topic is "Badrinath should be next in line" ... right now Yuvraj is next in line , but I am saying Badrinath should be next in line (i.e. ahead of Yuvraj) because I feel Badrinath has paid his dues and earnt the Test spot more than Yuvraj ... I feel Badrinath could be a more long term prospect and hopefully show similar consistency to that of Hussey (probably not to that extent but you get my point)

[praveenj]

well, actually i haven't had much to see what badrinath is... i was only talking upon what we saw of yuvi... to say, i had been partial to him without taking the credentials badri had.... if given chance and if proved himself, Badri can surely be a good choice... I was more of referring to it that, it is not possible for him to get selected with Yuvi in such strong contention... may be after Aus series, mgmt may consider him...

[fineleg]

well, actually i haven't had much to see what badrinath is... i was only talking upon what we saw of yuvi... to say, i had been partial to him without taking the credentials badri had.... if given chance and if proved himself, Badri can surely be a good choice... I was more of referring to it that, it is not possible for him to get selected with Yuvi in such strong contention... may be after Aus series, mgmt may consider him...

Yes, YS will get the first peck, but we are (theoretically) debating as we always do. Should Badri be ahead of YS in pecking order?

[bharat297]

Yes' date=' YS will get the first peck, but we are (theoretically) debating as we always do. Should Badri be ahead of YS in pecking order?[/quote'] Exactly ... the question wasnt who will be the next in line ... because we all know it will be Yuvraj ... I am just saying that it should be Badrinath.

[Chandan]

Chandan, What would you want Badri to achieve before he can get into Tests? Forget asking him to score in "challenger trophy" etc. -- I am not talking abt ODIs - only Test format. So, he scores in domestics, he scores in 4-day formats vs South Africa-A etc. What do you want him to do? Score in 4-day or 5-day format vs Stuart Clark, Mohd. Asif, Brett Lee et al? But how? They dont play in local or A-team matches! He has done good in domestics and vs A-teams in 4 or 5-day type format. IMO - if he is given 5-8 Test matches - after that we can evaluate. He has earned that right. As per you, he has not earned that right. Ok, how does he earn it? What opportunity should he shine in before you will accept he should be tried in 5-8 Tests?

That is what I'm concentrating at too. Last year in the BP XI vs England team, he hardly scored anything whereas Gambhir scored big and Munaf took 10 wickets. Munaf got a break as a fast bowler's slot was vacant while Gambhir went unlucky as Sehwag had hit a double ton just two matches before. These are the competitions where he has to score big if he wants to prove that he has class. This will be against an international attack. Now which other batsman has proved himself in such matches? Did Yuvraj prove himself in the practice games that were played in England? No he didn't! That is why I'm not in the group who want to include Yuvraj at the expense of Laxman/Ganguly. And then the board has to send the team to SA and England and Australia in summer if they want their second XIV to be ready to replace anyone in the present national team, not to Kenya and Zimbabwe!! Secondly, board's policy has been since last few years to check a batsman first in the ODIs before they are given chance in the test team. Can you think of any batsman in recent times who got a break straight in the test team? Last I think was Jaffer because he is an opener and India has been starved for openers. I can't think of anyone else. Maybe Karthik but again that was as a keeper and not as a pure batsman.

[fineleg]

Chandan, Yes, board has to send them to Eng/SA/Aus, but what are folks like Badri to do if they dont send them to Aus and send them to kenya? :D Regarding "checking them in ODIs first" - it does not make sense. Since some are not good ODI players, but they can play Tests well. So wrong way of "checking" by BCCI.

[Chandan]

Chandan, Yes, board has to send them to Eng/SA/Aus, but what are folks like Badri to do if they dont send them to Aus and send them to kenya? :D Regarding "checking them in ODIs first" - it does not make sense. Since some are not good ODI players, but they can play Tests well. So wrong way of "checking" by BCCI.

There is no other way to do that.How will they ascertain that the player is quality enough to score against international class attacks? Raina got cruelly exposed at SA and so was Kaif though I think he was in poor form during that series. ODIs are played in dime a dozen. But that is not the case with tests and selectors can't take much chances there. Then they (aspiring test players) have just one opportunity---------smash the visiting team in side games and prove yourself. Badri failed there.

[bharat297]

There is no other way to do that.How will they ascertain that the player is quality enough to score against international class attacks? Raina got cruelly exposed at SA and so was Kaif though I think he was in poor form during that series. ODIs are played in dime a dozen. But that is not the case with tests and selectors can't take much chances there. Then they (aspiring test players) have just one opportunity---------smash the visiting team in side games and prove yourself. Badri failed there.

Hold on ... Badrinath has been to Australia and scored against Aus A and NZL A , and recently scored a double-ton against SAF A. It does not make sense, you refer to an instance where he failed against England last year ... he had ONE bad innings ... ONE ... and that was enough to conclude that he is not good enough to be a Test player. Following that match was a tour of Australia where he averaged 82 (which was the 2nd highest average of that tour) and faced bowlers like Tait, Johnson, Hilfenhaus and Watson, who are now mostly international, on Australian pitches and still played some good knocks. Then this year when the SAF A team came to India he hit 200. Add to that consistent form in Ranji Trophy, Challenger Trophy (even though I am not talking about ODIs), Irani Trophy and most other domestic tournaments.

There is no other way to do that.How will they ascertain that the player is quality enough to score against international class attacks? Raina got cruelly exposed at SA and so was Kaif though I think he was in poor form during that series. ODIs are played in dime a dozen. But that is not the case with tests and selectors can't take much chances there. Then they (aspiring test players) have just one opportunity---------smash the visiting team in side games and prove yourself. Badri failed there.

Well if ODIs are the way to go ... how do you explain Jaques' selection for Tests ? He had 1 good ODI match but in the rest he did nothing and has an average of 20 in ODIs. Here is further proof of how ODI form doesnt affect Test selection ... * VVS Laxman was selected in Tests before ODIs. * Sachin Tendulkar did aswell. * Rahul Dravid was put into ODIs first (only 3 months before), but his performances were pretty average (3,4,3,11,22), yet he still got selected in the Test team and made 95 on debut. * Sourav Ganguly played 2 ODIs before his test debut where he made a 2 and a 46. * Brian Lara played 1 ODI and made 11 before his Test debut * Ricky Ponting averaged 28 in ODIs before his Test debut * Michael Vaughan debuted in Tests before he debuted in ODIs * Ian Bell debuted in Tests before he debuted in ODIs * Stephen Fleming debuted in Tests before he debuted in ODIs * Jacques Kallis debuted in Tests before he debuted in ODIs

[fineleg]

we CANNOT use how someone did in ODIs as a criteria for TEST selection. we cannot do vice-versa as well. different types, different skills.