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dial_100

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This thread is not unexpected. But I am just wondering what your views are on these three players. Yuvi - What is your thoughts on him. Is is another Sehwag or he is better than him. He is young and athletic, scores runs at the most @30 in ODIs. In this recent concluding ODI series against Africa, he managed another 3 scores of 30s. Scores them well but then loses momentum at wrong time. Not able to score as many big scores as he should have. His career is still lingering on low averages. Though in last 30 matches he played, his avg has gone up to 43 which is good but I still dont see him going a season with 50+ avg yet. Dhoni : On the contrary came behind him and established himself at a very healthy average of 47 in the career of 75 odd ODIs that he played so far. In last 30 outings, he is comfortably sitting @ 44 marginally ahead of Yuvi. How do you want to utilize these two talented players of India? Would you want these two to play major role by playing them ahead of some OLD and senile seniors or present batting order justifies our current talent. Lastly but not any less important is off course, Sehwag. Mr. Petu. Sehwag: Another low scoring series for him. He managed one score of 40+. but for god sake, he is an opener and should score lot more runs than he does right now. I have not seen him playing. So tell me how he faired in these 3 games and do you think he is anywhere close to regaining his form. Or should we be done with him and try consistent opener who will give us guaranteed score @ avg of 35 by someone like Jafar/GG/Karthik. Sehwag doesn't seem to be a future promise for us. Cuz you will need top 3 to replace, SRT, Dravid and Gangs. I thought we have these 3, the best. But I always wonder Sehwag could even replace a third of even Gangs. Let alone SRT and Dravid. These two are not known only for these abilities but their consistent performance that we are blessed with... Who would be that 3rd player if not Mr. Petu???

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Yuvraj - top gun. First name on the team sheet in ODI's. I'd like to see him play more Test cricket though. He should be a natural successor to the likes of Ganguly and Tendulkar in the longer version of the game Dhoni - flat track bully, but a good one nonetheless. He is a handy ODI player, but has been a major disappointment in test cricket. I wouldn't be averse to seeing Karthik playing ahead of him in Tests. Sehwag - i still think he can do the business in Test cricket, although it's obvious that he will never be anywhere near as prolific as he was from '02-'05. He is clearly a waste of space as an ODI opener, but i might consider playing him as a lower order slogger in this form of the game. Those 20's and 30 run cameos will be useful during the slog overs.

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I don't actually rate any of the three as quality batsmen. Sehwag proved me wrong when he first burst on the scene by scoring a lot of runs, including a good amount of them outside the subcontinent. However, his second innings average is beyond bad, and bowlers have figured him out. As an opener, as far as I am concerned, you need to have strong back foot play and an excellent ability to leave balls. Sehwag has neither, and I am not sure if he can reclaim his spot permanently. I would have liked Chopra to have another go rather than Gambhir personally. Yuvraj has never been, nor ever will be, a good Test batsman. He has too many holes, and often has no idea how to defend properly. Dhoni can actually be decent at his job, and average in the mid thirties, as he will do well at home and though he will struggle away, he will still make some good scores via hitting hard and fast. Mid thirties is not a very good average for a proper batsman, but as a wicketkeeper, I think he could be fine.

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As an opener, as far as I am concerned, you need to have strong back foot play and an excellent ability to leave balls.
Is that why Matty 'no-backfoot' Hayden is getting close to 8000 runs at 53 average ?
He has too many holes, and often has no idea how to defend properly.
That was Ponting too, in the 90s.

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Is that why Matty 'no-backfoot' Hayden is getting close to 8000 runs at 53 average ?
Matty Hayden is the ugliest player of this century, but he does score a lot of runs and he makes up for his technical deficiencies with very good judgement (people forget that) and an immense amount of power. With that said, against the moving ball on lively tracks, he still struggles. He is lucky to have played in an era where the tracks are flat as pancakes and the opening bowlers are not very good. He tried and failed magnificently in the nineties when it was tougher.
That was Ponting too' date=' in the 90s.[/quote'] Yea, but he has improved quite a bit, and you could see his improvement. I don't see Yuvi doing anything about his game.

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Yea, but he has improved quite a bit, and you could see his improvement.
yes. i see his 'improvement'. Just like i see Youhana, Yousuf, lara part-II, Hayden etc's 'improvement'...its also known as 'Ambrose & Walsh retired; Wasim,Waqar,Donald,Saqlain,Gough stayed a couple of seasons too long for 2003 world cup and beginning that, every tom,dick and harry 'improved'.
I don't see Yuvi doing anything about his game.
So you don't see Yuvvy pulling a Pontin..interesting...both were similar players at similar stages of test career- kinda clueless against quality spin, flashy but loose vs the fast stuff and a clumsy frontfoot technique.

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yes. i see his 'improvement'. Just like i see Youhana, Yousuf, lara part-II, Hayden etc's 'improvement'...its also known as 'Ambrose & Walsh retired; Wasim,Waqar,Donald,Saqlain,Gough stayed a couple of seasons too long for 2003 world cup and beginning that, every tom,dick and harry 'improved'. So you don't see Yuvvy pulling a Pontin..interesting...both were similar players at similar stages of test career- kinda clueless against quality spin, flashy but loose vs the fast stuff and a clumsy frontfoot technique.
You contradict yourself. You claim that Ponting has improved due to the lack of quality fast bowlers. Yet Yuvraj has never even faced those quality fast bowlers and pretty much played his entire career against this crap bowling attack. Why hasn't he scored?

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Yet Yuvraj has never even faced those quality fast bowlers and pretty much played his entire career against this crap bowling attack. Why hasn't he scored?
he's hardly has had a test career to speak of !! Thats why !

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he's hardly has had a test career to speak of !! Thats why !
He has had 19 Tests, which is ample time to prove to the world that you belong. You don't have to set the world on fire like Hussey, but 19 tests is quite a bit to show your class. An average of 33 after 19 Tests despite playing 7 Tests at home (at a ridiculous average of 29) does not cut it.

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He has had 19 Tests, which is ample time to prove to the world that you belong.
Not when those 19 tests comes in spurts of 1s and 2s instead of getting a couple of years consistent backing. If you cannot appreciate that single biggest factor, i got nothing more to say.

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Not when those 19 tests comes in spurts of 1s and 2s instead of getting a couple of years consistent backing. If you cannot appreciate that single biggest factor, i got nothing more to say.
he averages 31 since playing continuously from the start of the zimbabwe tour (last 13 tests). in fact during the england home series laxman was axed ahead of him. this bangladesh series is the first in a long time that he hasn't been in the playing XI. the guy is a rather mediocre test player with poor defensive technique. we need to be playing someone line a Rao, but that would only make sense.

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the guy is a rather mediocre test player with poor defensive technique. we need to be playing someone line a Rao, but that would only make sense.
I agree..but my point is, Ponting wasn't much better so this silentstriker guy's admiration of Ponting while total disdain of Yuvraj is unjustified.

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Not when those 19 tests comes in spurts of 1s and 2s instead of getting a couple of years consistent backing. If you cannot appreciate that single biggest factor, i got nothing more to say.
A couple of years of consistent backing? Sorry, you don't give people that many chances. It's your job as a player to seize any and all chances you get. If you don't do that, you don't deserve a spot. Could he have been treated better by selectors? Sure. But if he had scored more runs, there wouldn't have been any need. In the end, it comes down to him throwing his wicket away way too many times.

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Well, CC and SS both have some very valid points there. In my view, 19 test are far too many for some1 to even say I am not quite comfortable. Especially when he has played tons and tons of ODIs about 170+ to be precise. Irony is that this guy has done nothing to improve in that area. He has made all efforts to socialize and do all non-sense stuff when he was not even in 25s of his age. Apart from that I somehow believe that Dhoni will improve with time but he should be persisted with. Akash Chopra was my kinda player. Very solid technique, at least better than all these bunch of new batters. With Akash, and improved Yuvi, Dhoni we should be able to cope up with the big hole in the opening and middle order. How about, Akash Chopra Jaffer Karthik ( Rohit Sharma) Gambhir Yuv Dhoni Ishant (Rohit Sharma) Zaheer SreeSanth Chawla Munaf Man, this team doesnot look promising to me. Rather , looking at this team , I want dravid to extend his career beyond just 2-3 years until these usless new talent gets anywhere near the international standards.

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Striker my friend, Yuvi was unlucky in that. We had Gangs, VVS and a WC who we couldn't have dropped to accommodate Yuvi. And with whatever he got, he did okay with those chances. He didn;t fail all together. But he was not a big success. Even SRT took 2 years to get settled in the Test matches completely when he started scoring big runs. And heck.... we do not have a choice here. He is too good to be dropped from test once 3-4 seniors are gone. With regular fix position in the test side, he will improve. Or at least hope.

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I can't envision Dhoni scoring big outside the subcontinent. He just isn't good enough.
I hate to agree. But i want to highlight few of his other qualities, comes across as a cool customer no matter what the situation always in control, much better read of match situation miles ahead of sehwag and yuvraj. If he could get some runs outside sub continent then he might be the next captain.

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I hate to agree. But i want to highlight few of his other qualities, comes across as a cool customer no matter what the situation always in control, much better read of match situation miles ahead of sehwag and yuvraj.
I think his ability to play in bowler friendly conditions is limited. I disagree with the description of him as a "cool customer". Sure, he doesn't always slog and can play to situations but the manner in which he gets out sometimes makes you wonder whether he will ever make an impact at Test level. Many of his dismissals in Test cricket so far have been bizarre.

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Many of his dismissals in Test cricket so far have been bizarre.
Every now and then in ODIs he has shown he can play a mature inning that is because he has played close to 80 games now. He is still settling in test cricket i dont believe he has played 20 games. I would like to see how he bats in Eng. Though i dont expect much but given the added responsibility of being VC in ODIs we might see some controlled aggression in tests.

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Dhoni : Among the three he is the one that is mentally tough. Although his game is not suited for seaming wicket he makes it up with his excellent keeping. His game will improve and as Pietersen has shown the technique at times is over rated. Who cares whether he has the perfect cover drive or not he keeps the game simple. Among the three Dhoni is my pick for permanent member in both formats of the game. Sehwag : Excellent eye hand and a tough cookie but way too wayward. He will still have some great moments but will more often come under the scanner. Give him about 3-4 years time he will change and will end up being a solid middle order batsman. Yuvraj Singh : The most talented of the three. Has ability to change gears in a jiff and a one off player that can time the ball better than a lot of established batters in the Indian team. I suppose his game is up and down due to lack of opportunities at the right time, his involvement in things outside cricket and the prima donna attitude as reported many times. There is only one person that can wreck or make his career i.e himself. I would like to think he is one for the future.

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His game will improve and as Pietersen has shown the technique at times is over rated. .
You have got to be kidding. Dhoni isn't half the batsman Pietersen is. ...and Pietersen has very good technique (coupled with a good eye and powerful wrists). Not even comparable to Dhoni.

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Yuvraj Singh : T. I would like to think he is one for the future.
That time has come and gone Ravi.. Yuvraj is in his 6th season now.. He has to be the team NOW , not hopefully sometime in the future..

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You have got to be kidding. Dhoni isn't half the batsman Pietersen is. ...and Pietersen has very good technique (coupled with a good eye and powerful wrists). Not even comparable to Dhoni.
Come on Pred, you should know what is the right technique. OK let's hear the technique of Pietersen from ya Pred. Do you know even the stance of Pietersen is not technically right? Do you know he crouches as the bowler runs in? Have you noticed when he hits the ball he is not standing tall but is crouching? Technically the power imparted on the shot when crouching or when your back foot is lifted off the ground or when it's not stable the power on the shot is minimized heavily. I don't know what technique you have seen in Pietersen? You tell me what is right in Pietersen's batting technically and then I'll talk about it. I don't know why are you jumping the gun here. Read my writing again "His game will improve and as Pietersen has shown the technique at times is over rated." What makes you think I was comparing Dhoni with Pietersen?

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Come on Pred, you should know what is the right technique. OK let's hear the technique of Pietersen from ya Pred. Do you know even the stance of Pietersen is not technically right? Do you know he crouches as the bowler runs in? Have you noticed when he hits the ball he is not standing tall but is crouching? Technically the power imparted on the shot when crouching or when your back foot is lifted off the ground or when it's not stable the power on the shot is minimized heavily. I don't know what technique you have seen in Pietersen? You tell me what is right in Pietersen's batting technically and then I'll talk about it. I don't know why are you jumping the gun here. Read my writing again "His game will improve and as Pietersen has shown the technique at times is over rated." What makes you think I was comparing Dhoni with Pietersen?
I was assuming that you brought up Pietersen to illustrate that a player like Dhoni doesn't need proper technique to score in Test cricket. I responded by saying that Pietersen isn't the best example for the point you are trying to make since his technique is markedly better than Dhoni's. If you feel i misconstrued what you were saying, than you have my apologies. As far as Pietersen's technique goes, i'd say you are getting into specifics here. I don't think there is anything wrong with batting stance - sure, he crouches but then again he is over 6 feet tall. How many tall players bring the bat all the way down ? That doesn't seem to be trouble him though because from what i see, he has very good balance no matter what shot he is playing, tremendous bat-speed and is at ease playing strokes on either side of the wicket. I also reckon he reads the bowler better than most batsmen; often playing the right premeditated shot for the right ball. Dhoni by contrast doesn't look anywhere near as good as Pietersen in his strokeplay.

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Do you know even the stance of Pietersen is not technically right?
Ravi u can't really say that peterson is not technically right.. the shots he plays might not be in any cricket manual then that doesn't mean he is technically in correct.. the style of chanderpaul's batting is quite different compared to others, that doesn't mean he is technically not right too.. lot of ppl label unique shots as technically wrong just because its not in any english cricket manual???

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I was assuming that you brought up Pietersen to illustrate that a player like Dhoni doesn't need proper technique to score in Test cricket. I responded by saying that Pietersen isn't the best example for the point you are trying to make since his technique is markedly better than Dhoni's. If you feel i misconstrued what you were saying, than you have my apologies. As far as Pietersen's technique goes, i'd say you are getting into specifics here. I don't think there is anything wrong with batting stance - sure, he crouches but then again he is over 6 feet tall. How many tall players bring the bat all the way down ? That doesn't seem to be trouble him though because from what i see, he has very good balance no matter what shot he is playing, tremendous bat-speed and is at ease playing strokes on either side of the wicket. I also reckon he reads the bowler better than most batsmen; often playing the right premeditated shot for the right ball. Dhoni by contrast doesn't look anywhere near as good as Pietersen in his strokeplay.
I am getting into specifics here yes. Firstly for a batter to be technically correct he needs to to be still while the bowler is running in with the ball. You can see Pietersen crouching while the bowler is running in. Whatever you are saying is not technique, that is natural talent. That is good for Sehwag too. Do you reckon Sehwag has good technique too? Tell ya what, I'll upload some videos of Pietersen's stroke play and Dhoni's stroke play for you to compare. Pietersen is obviously the better bat but you will see that either can be used as a picture of technique. This is what I'm trying to say here.
Ravi u can't really say that peterson is not technically right.. the shots he plays might not be in any cricket manual then that doesn't mean he is technically in correct.. the style of chanderpaul's batting is quite different compared to others, that doesn't mean he is technically not right too.. lot of ppl label unique shots as technically wrong just because its not in any english cricket manual???
That is exactly I'm trying to tell you folks. Technique, MCC manual is all over rated. A little bit of technique is of course needed to keep a good ball away but to put away bad balls you don't need the technique of Tendulkar, Dravid or Vaughan. I think you need to read my last couple of posts in this thread.
the shots he plays might not be in any cricket manual then that doesn't mean he is technically in correct..
You define technique to me and then we sure can dwell more into it Cricketics.

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Watch the following video where Pietersen does everything against the prescribed technique. Not much of a balanced stance, head falls over to the off side, he is about few inches outside the stumps in the stance, he's not still when the bowler is running in, he over balances, picks wrong ball to put away through the leg side to a length ball on off side and clearly falls. Also watch how his back foot goes through to the leg side while the front foot to the off side. Ideally when you play on the front foot you want the body momentum to go forward. When you play on the back foot it is vice versa. Now don't shoot me for picking a video that shows his dismissal but I'm just demonstrating the flaws in his technique. I'm not saying he's a bad bad but just saying his technique is no great as you guys claim. I will upload other videos of his with similar technique but hits the ball all over the park. Let's take it one at at time. I'll also upload Dhoni's videos too for you guys to look at.

http://activex.microsoft.com/activex/controls/mplayer/en/nsmp2inf.cab#Version=5,1,52,701' standby='Loading Microsoft Windows Media Player components...' type='application/x-oleobject'> http://microsoft.com/windows/mediaplayer/en/download/' id='mediaPlayer' name='mediaPlayer' displaysize='4' autosize='-1' bgcolor='darkblue' showcontrols="true" showtracker='-1' showdisplay='0' showstatusbar='-1' videoborder3d='-1' width="320" height="285" src="http://www.indiancricketfans.com/files/Pieter.wmv" autostart="false" designtimesp='5311' loop="false">
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Watch the following video where Pietersen does everything against the prescribed technique. Not much of a balanced stance' date=' head falls over to the off side, he is about few inches outside the stumps in the stance, he's not still when the bowler is running in, he over balances, picks wrong ball to put away through the leg side to a length ball on off side and clearly falls. Also watch how his back foot goes through to the leg side while the front foot to the off side. Ideally when you play on the front foot you want the body momentum to go forward. When you play on the back foot it is vice versa. [/quote'] I reckon that was a good ball from Nel. Pietersen was looking to play on the legside, but then changed his shot at the last second when the ball straigtened slightly and headed towards middle stump rather than leg-stump. Yeah, he looks a mess in that video but it's not like he always gets out in that fashion.

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"Technically" he was supposed to hit that ball on the off side or could have played straight or could even have pulled the ball over mid wicket but Pietersen's style of play didn't allow that. Whether good ball or not Pietersen's batting has always been like that. I can upload quite a few videos where he has hit a similar ball through mid wicket for four. I'm trying disprove you folks that reckon Pietersen's or Sehwag's technique is just right but not Dhoni's. I will upload in a while some of this good shots played with similar style.

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Check this video out. I have frozen the video right at the time of impact. You can see how far down his hands have gone while the foot stays in line with the off stump. Now where is the technique? His body movements are pretty much similar to the way he played the shot against Nel's bowling. The back foot is off the ground at the time of impact, the foot hasn't really gone all the way, back lift isn't straight either and his stance again is the same as was in the previous video. You have evidence of two clips and now tell me what is great about his technique? I'll tell you what is great about his batting though, he is a very uncomplicated batter. He knows he has a bat and there is a ball to hit. It doesn't matter if his stance isn't perfect or his head has fallen over to the off side at the time of delivery of the ball, he has good eyes and fantastic hands. I can bet my bottom dollar if you emulate that shot the ball won't cross 10 yards but when he does the ball races away to the fence. Technique is good and is great to keep a good ball away but you don't have to be a walking manual to succeed in cricket. The only thing that matters is watching the ball closely, strong mental attitude, backing yourself and making an effort to hit the ball from the middle of the bat. In test cricket it does help to learn to leave a lot of good balls and that comes with the ability to watch the ball closely. A little tweaking here and there technically is required at times when one keeps getting out in similar fashion otherwise there is more to cricket than just having perfect technique.

http://activex.microsoft.com/activex/controls/mplayer/en/nsmp2inf.cab#Version=5,1,52,701' standby='Loading Microsoft Windows Media Player components...' type='application/x-oleobject'> http://microsoft.com/windows/mediaplayer/en/download/' id='mediaPlayer' name='mediaPlayer' displaysize='4' autosize='-1' bgcolor='darkblue' showcontrols="true" showtracker='-1' showdisplay='0' showstatusbar='-1' videoborder3d='-1' width="320" height="285" src="http://www.indiancricketfans.com/files/Pieter1.wmv" autostart="false" designtimesp='5311' loop="false">
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Lovely cover drive. Nice flow of the bat' date=' perfect timing. He read the ball superbly, and his head was still - eyes on the ball - when he hit it. Dhoni's shots never look that clean.[/quote'] I don't really know what you are saying there. We all know it's a fantastic shot but where is the technique you mentioned about? You said
You have got to be kidding. Dhoni isn't half the batsman Pietersen is. ...and Pietersen has very good technique (coupled with a good eye and powerful wrists). Not even comparable to Dhoni.
I don't see any great technique in Pietersen :thumbs_down: He is a fantastic natural striker of the ball. Dhoni is pretty much the same, no great technique but is a top class hitter of the ball. I can even point out similarities in Dhoni and Pietersen's hitting ability if you want. Dhoni may not be as able as Pietersen but he sure can hit a ball consistently. Some are more capable than others and let's say Pietersen is more capable. It is not because of great technique Pietersen is scoring all those runs.

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I don't really know what you are saying there. We all know it's a fantastic shot but where is the technique you mentioned about? You said I don't see any great technique in Pietersen :thumbs_down: He is a fantastic natural striker of the ball. Dhoni is pretty much the same, no great technique but is a top class hitter of the ball. I can even point out similarities in Dhoni and Pietersen's hitting ability if you want. Dhoni may not be as able as Pietersen but he sure can hit a ball consistently. Some are more capable than others and let's say Pietersen is more capable. It is not because of great technique Pietersen is scoring all those runs.
I am not saying that Pietersen is the very epitome of technical correctness. I am just saying that his technique is still quite good and MUCH better than Dhoni's. When i talk about technique, i mean technique with regard to strokeplay. That cover drive was technically correct - observe the timing, the still head, the smooth flow of the bat and the perfect placement. If that isn't technical correctness, i don't know what is. For starters, Dhoni can't even play a cover drive like that. He is far more one dimensional when compared to Pietersen; always looking to play as straight as humanely possible or alternatively, on the leg side. His offside strokeplay is almost non-existent. Dhoni isn't as good as Pietersen because the England batsman is a better rounded, more technically sound cricketer by comparision and possesses a wider array of shots. Pietersen is in a different league - hence why his Test and ODI records are so much better.

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