Murali vs. Warne

[The Outsider]

Here is what Warne had to say in a barely concealed attempt at slighting Murali's superior record :

Warne said earlier this week that his world records of 651 career wickets and 87 in a calender year will not last long because other bowlers got more opportunities against weaker opponents. Without naming Muralitharan, his nearest rival with 584, Warne said: "There's a lot more cricket being played these days and you have teams like Zimbabwe and Bangladesh in there, with some teams playing them a lot more (than others). "I'm sure that whoever those people are, they might get the record." Warne told The Australian: "It doesn't take a sudoku expert or a Da Vinci Code sleuth to work out who 'those people' are." Muralitharan has taken more wickets (89) against Test minnows Zimbabwe than any other nation and he also has 34 wickets in four Tests against Bangladesh.

http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/ci/content/story/230503.html Pretty soon afterwards, Australia toured BD and Warne was thrashed for 100+ runs in 20 odd overs. There is no denying that BD are a cr@p team but in the same breath it cannot be overlooked that Warne has built up a large part of his records based on his performance against England against whom, like every other team, Murali has outperformed him by a country mile. Here are Murali and Warne's record against England :

[FONT=MONOSPACE,COURIER NEW,COURIER]filtered              13  914.5  1836  93  9/65  16/220  19.74  2.00  59.0  6  4
                     [COLOR=#ff0000] 36 1792.5  4535 195  8/71  12/246  23.25  2.52  55.1 11  4[/COLOR][/FONT]

Extrapolating, Murali would have had 260 wickets against England if he had played the same number of tests against Warne more than offsetting the supposed advantage he gained by playing BD, against whom BTW Warne's record is nothing stellar. So, the question one is trying to answer here is if the two had played the same number of tests against similar opposition would Murali still have the record? I think the answer is a resounding yes. Discuss.

[Ram]

Before trying to answer the question , I have some reservations with the extrapolation technique. Statistically it looks good , but i dont think you can extrapolate one particular part of a record of a player and say he would have done so and so , If he had done so and so, simply because the record of a player against one team is inter-twined with his record against other teams. One cannot separate it that way. It is without doubt that as a wicket-taking weapon , Murali is much more potent than warne. If both Warne and him had played the similar number of tests agaisnt similar opposition , Murali would have surely ended up with more wickets. It is unfortunate that arguably the greatest wicket-taking bowler in history of the game has his name tarnished with allegations of foul-play.

[The Outsider]

Before trying to answer the question , I have some reservaitions with the extrapolation technique. Statistically it looks good , but i dont think you can extrapolate one particular part of a record of a player and say he would have done so and so , If he had done so and so, simply because the record of a player against one team is inter-twined with his record against other teams.

But that is exactly the technique that Warne used and a lot of his fans support when they try to bring down Murali's record. I am just asking for fair play here. Fine if you want to say that Murali's stellar record is in part due to the number of matches he has played against BD and Zim, allow me the luxury of extrapolating his record against England, NZ, WI, and SA against whom he hasn't had the opportunity to play as much.

[Holysmoke]

Basically it comes down to whether you trust Murali's action, just as was the case with Shoaib.

[Ram]

But that is exactly the technique that Warne used and a lot of his fans support when they try to bring down Murali's record. I am just asking for fair play here. Fine if you want to say that Murali's stellar record is in part due to the number of matches he has played against BD and Zim' date=' allow me the luxury of extrapolating his record against England, NZ, WI, and SA against whom he hasn't had the opportunity to play as much.[/quote'] I am actually not trying to claim Murali's record is so good because he played more matches against the minnows than warne. I am with you on this topic. All i am saying is , we dont need to extrapolate numbers to figure out who would have got more wickets if they had played equal matches against similar opposition. The writing is on the wall, loud and clear. Warne's claim that Murali plays the minnows more than him is so typical of the man ( and his country i might add , Even the prime minister takes time off to comment on cricket). Aus has Murali paranoia. But for all the chucking controversy , Murali would have long ago become the best spinner to have ever played this game.

[Holysmoke]

Indians are the best players of spin. Murali has managed to do well most of the time against us, while the same cannot be said of Warne. We all know how SRT demolished Warne, but I havent seen anyone do it to Murali. Lara went close.

[The Outsider]

BTW, his performance against BD in the just concluded test match is among his WORST in terms of number of wickets in the last 7 tests : 10/113 vs. England @ Birmingham 11/132 vs. England @ Nottingham 10/172 vs. SA @ Columbo 12/225 vs. SA @ Columbo 7/99 vs. NZ @ Christchurch 10/118 vs. NZ @ Wellington 9/112 vs. BD @ Colombo

[MundaPakistani]

Murali is a freak while Warne is a genuis!

[Ram]

If at all ANYBODY can show me a bowler , who has taken wickets , more prolifically , more consistently for longer periods than Murali, I will eat my shirt..

[MundaPakistani]

If at all ANYBODY can show me a bowler ' date=' who has taken wickets , more prolifically , more consistently for longer periods than Murali, [b']I will eat my shirt..

at first glance i didn't see the "r":giggle: I guess M Marshall and Mcgrath are the only ones that can match Murali in that regard. .

[yoda]

And murali doesn't even have the advantage of being able to intimidate the umpire without any consequence.

[King Tendulkar]

Where are you Donny? Whats the matter dont like the questions being posed!

[Predator_05]

It's a travesty to even compare a JAVELIN THROWER like CHUTTIAH CHUTIAHLITHARAN to the living legend that is Shane Warne

[King Tendulkar]

Warne is a drug cheat!

[The Outsider]

Aaaah....the usual descent of a Murali and Warne discussion into chucking and drugs.

[Guest dada_rocks]

It's a travesty to even compare a JAVELIN THROWER like CHUTTIAH CHUTIAHLITHARAN to the living legend that is Shane Warne

How about ****u drug thug warne.... The guy avoided being tested by not taking part in ICC sposored events wheras murali has made himself available everytime someone has crapppped.. Murali even here wins hands down:thumbs_up:

[theguyinallblue]

It's a travesty to even compare a JAVELIN THROWER like CHUTTIAH CHUTIAHLITHARAN to the living legend that is Shane Warne

i disagree...with you Preds.. under ICC rules and regulations...Murli's action is as clean as other bowlers... i consider him THE GREATEST spinner world has ever produced... he is a magician with the ball..who can turn the ball on a glass pitch... No doubt Warne was also a great bowler...and equally talented. but Murli scores above him..and deservingly will be the highest wicket taker in the world..

[Ram]

Aaaah....the usual descent of a Murali and Warne discussion into chucking and drugs.

True. ANY discussion comparing these two guys will invariably get into non-cricketing domains. Cant help it.

[CC1981]

Murali. Not only does he not have a Glenn McGrath to scythe through the top order and expose the middle order early, he also doesnt have the luxury of a monstrous batting lineup that always gives Warney 400+ runs to bowl with. Murali is also a more consistent bowler with less 'bad days' than Warney- both in tests and ODIs.

[Bumper]

The only non contraversial great among spinners is Jumbo, the only spinner who commands unconditional respect, atleast from me. Murali with all his magic & 'legally compliant' action still benefits a HUGE amount from his contraversial elbow. The guy turns his doosra like a leg break!! I cant believe he would be this effective with a normal elbow. Warney has benefitted from friendly umpires and playing for a great side all these years. His drug abuse taints his character & record even further.