Ram Posted June 29, 2007 Share Posted June 29, 2007 If there is one question that has pricked my mind from the day I became old enough to debate about the way this world works, it is this -- The question of Identity. From early days in school , I was taught that Patriotism was the most divine quality. "You should not hesitate to lay down your life for the country's sake" , was the common refrain. That was the seed of some nationalistic tendencies in me. I was/am a staunch defender of my country and whatever it stands for. I hate it when somebody put down my country, even if its for just conversation sake. Whenever I read that " Indianisms that annoy you" thread , I even used to think " What their problem with Indians?", though I realize many of the grouses expressed were real. I have never been shy to express my patriotism, mainly because it is considered a good thing in the society. When a soldier lays down his life for his country , he is immortalized. "Subedar Ranbir Singh single handedly killed 6 infiltrators , He has been awarded the bravery medal", screams the headlines. Fair enough. Now, to the other identity. I am a Hindu , a devout one at that too. Yet , I dont feel the same freedom to express my affinities towards religion as I am allowed in the case of my country. Religion, and the practises associated with it have always been a taboo. I freely argue with my friends about their views on the country/being Indian etc , but we rarely discuss matters about religion. But, here is the part that confuses me. If someone says - " I am a proud Indian", it is considered good. Conversely , If the same person says " I am proud Hindu/Muslim/Sikh" , people look at him strangely, he is branded communal. Why the double standards ? After all , both of them are identities , each as natural or artificial as the other. When a child is born , its not born an Indian or American. Its told , after sometime , that it is Indian. Similarly , no child is born a Hindu or a Christian. It is told so. Then why this ambiguity when it comes to treating both these identities. When a soldier kills a terrorist , its considered valour. When a terrorist kills a soldier , its a crime. Ironically , both are after all killing , an act where a life is ended. Both are fighting for what they believe is right , the soldier for the sovreignity of his nation and the terrorist , for the sake of the beliefs of his religion. Yet, the society views both these acts differently. Yes, people would say - " Oh Religious beliefs manipulate human minds , poison them. They are bad. We should have religion- free society" On the same lines , i can also say " The concept of nation state in itself is baseless. People are fighting wars for borders that never existed , that shouldnt have been there in the first place". Time magazine declared the american soldier as its person of the year , in a year in which the american soldier probably caused more collateral/life damage than any other entity in the world. Ultimately , it all boils down how we are brought up I guess. We are TOLD what is good , what is bad. I cant stop laughing at all the double standards, the hypocricy. Sadly, I have forced myself to rather follow them , rather than question them, fearing blank looks and angry reprimands. The world is a strange place ! :hysterical: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gator Posted June 29, 2007 Share Posted June 29, 2007 top post, but the bottom line of what u said is true, u r confused... there is nothing wrong in saying, u r a proud hindu/muslim/sikh.... what is wrong is, u trying to force ur religion down others' throats like some religions have done... To know the difference between what is fighting for good and bad, you only have to read our Baghavad Gita.... i had originally planned a lengthy post, but i will leave it for later... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted June 29, 2007 Share Posted June 29, 2007 Ultimately one's actions are one's identity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varun Posted June 29, 2007 Share Posted June 29, 2007 Ultimately one's actions are one's identity. From an outsider's perspective yes. From one's own perspective identity is just a collection of memories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram Posted June 29, 2007 Author Share Posted June 29, 2007 But the way this world looks at similar identies differently , is what is most annoying ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhondy Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 What are you guys on about?:whatchutalkingabout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram Posted June 30, 2007 Author Share Posted June 30, 2007 Felt bored that evening Dhondy ! so just wrote up a few lines ! dont bother ! :haha: Its 5 in the morning in UK . Pretty early to wake up on a Saturday morning i would say, unless ofcourse its got something to do with your profession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhondy Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 Felt bored that evening Dhondy ! so just wrote up a few lines ! dont bother ! :haha: Its 5 in the morning in UK . Pretty early to wake up on a Saturday morning i would say, unless ofcourse its got something to do with your profession. Yeah, try as I might, I couldn't comprehend Varun's cryptic statement.:haha: Yeah, pretty early, even for me. Always been an early riser though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram Posted June 30, 2007 Author Share Posted June 30, 2007 Dhondy.. Got a very simple question. Got nothing to do with this topic or whatever. How many hours of sleep does an adult need to have a sane day ? I know it differs from people to people, but how much would you recommend ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhondy Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 I reckon 7.5-8 would be optimum for an adult. Children need to sleep more. Old people probably get by with less. People vary, as you pointed out. Margaret Thatcher made do with only 4 hours! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 A person's identity is a person's beleifs at a given point of time. Beleifs change- so does identity. One's idea of his/her identity is not necessarily how the world sees his/her identity. Ultimately, there is only one identity we all have - we are all human beings. Anything apart from that is ultimately bullshit,ever-changing and ultimately, meaningless. 'I am a hindu/buddhist/muslim/indian/american/canadian/pakistani' is ultimately meaningless. Only constant is the identity 'we are all humans/i am a human'. The qunitessential question of good vs bad- well ultimately, there is no good and bad. There is only causality. Good and bad are ultimately one and the same- for everything arises in pairs. Opposite and equal pairs. Good cannot exist without bad and vice versa. A God cannot exist without a Devil. absolute evil or absolute good is a figment of our immaginations- even the Pandava brothers/Krishna were not 'absolute good guys who never did anything wrong' and Kauravas were not 'absolute bad guys who never did anything right'. Unless one is a superior being than the normal human and can extrapolate the chain of causality accurately in the past, present & future, one actually has no guage for judging 'good or evil',for 'good & evil' is just an interpretation of the causality of an action. Hence in Dharmic philosophy, man does not wage war on his/her own volition to spread good or fight evil- that is the domain of the far less evolved Abrahamic faiths. in Dharmic philosophy- you wait. You wait till a superior avatar shows up- be it Kalki (hinduism) or Maitreya (Buddhism). This is why all abrahamic faiths have a bloody genocidal past (and in case of Islam-present too!) while Dharmic/Eastern schools do not have anything remotely as nefarious tainting their history. Geonciders have been applauded as good muslims,christians,jews etc- apparently its okay when Mo genocided civillians, christians cannibalised the arabs and jews genocided the men & took their women as sex slaves in Caanan. Such nefarious behaviour is never justified or condoned in the eastern school of thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varun Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 Yeah, try as I might, I couldn't comprehend Varun's cryptic statement.:haha: I must've been high :haha:. Vaise if u wanna know, I was taking it back to the concept of I. For others my actions identify me. For me, my identity is much more internal, an accumulation of all that I have experienced. Confused yet ? You gotta get drunk and it'll clear up :haha: .. here's some more :P People tend to make assumptions about the "internal identity" of a person by just looking at their "external identity" (their actions). But many times the way a person thinks about him/herself (what I call the internal identity) is very similar to how any other person percieves him/herself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhondy Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 Nah, still beyond me. I'll stick to cricket, thanks.:haha: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varun Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 Accha ? Ok I've edited it a bit to make it clearer :hysterical: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhondy Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 People tend to make assumptions about the "internal identity" of a person by just looking at their "external identity" (their actions). But many times the way a person thinks about him/herself (what I call the internal identity) is very similar to how any other person percieves him/herself. Clear as mud, I must say.:P And after reading CC's take on it, I now have a massive headache. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 Clear as mud, I must say.:P And after reading CC's take on it, I now have a massive headache. Well i am good for your business then ! write out a prescription to yourself and charge the govt. for seeing one more patient. :haha::haha: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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