The luckless Gautam Gambhir

[Predator_05]

Prior to every major Test series India has played this season and the last, Gambhir has always impressed in the warm-ups and upstaged almost every other contender there is for that 2nd opener's position. Granted, Jaffer has done superbly since his come-back, but why do questions over the 2nd opener continue to linger on in the minds of the selectors and the team management when the solution is right there in front of their big, hairy noses ? Prior to the '06 test series vs PAK - Gambhir scored 53 and 28 not out. The only batsman who scored more was, you guessed it - Jaffer. Ironically, niether of them got a look-in because the team was under pressure to select Ganguly - which they did Prior to the '06 test series vs ENG - Gambhir top scored with 108 and 22 for the Board President's XI against a formidable bowling attack comprised of Ashes winners Hoggard, Flintoff and Harmison; along with a promising Monty Panesar. Then came the Challenger Series. Against the best bowling attacks the country has to offer, Gambhir aggregated 181 runs - second only to Sachin Tendulkar, who scored 200. Onto the Irani Trophy. Gambhir - donned the Rest of the India jersey - scoring 22 and 64* vs the Ranji Trophy champions Uttar Pradesh. In a match which saw both teams' batting lineups struggling to put runs on the board (niether side scored more than 200 in their two innings) Gambhir's was the best knock - that 64* being the 2nd innings clincher which led RoI to a big victory. Prior to the 2nd test during the '06 test series vs SA - Gambhir was once again amongst the runs, top scoring @ Durban vs Natal with 79*, in a match where supposedly superior batsmen such as Jaffer and Laxman couldn't even manage to pass single figures. Now he has once again proven his mettle by top scoring on day 1 for India against county champions Sussex. Long story short - here you have a guy who has been amassing runs against decent FC and International opposition for well over a year now, yet his place in the XI is still clouded by uncertainty. Basically, he has unjustly been sh*t out of luck for god knows how long. I am sure most of our members on ICF won't even expect his name to be on the team-sheet for the upcoming test matches vs ENG. In each one of these instances which i cited above, those run-scoring exploits of his, all that effort, ultimately amounted to nothing. Why is this the case ? Are the powers that be just convinced that he will never be able to score as many runs at international level with the same consistency as he does at FC level ? Do they really believe that leaving out a specialist for a makeshift opener makes sense in the long-run ? I don't. Ideally, he would be playing in the Test XI. Karthik would be played as 'keeper and the vastly overrated Dhoni would make way for him. Sadly, logic has never been the Indian cricket team's strong-point, and the consequences of this omission will soon be seen by all...

[King Tendulkar]

I would play GG, I rate him higly his domerstic form is superb. Give a 4 or 5 game run and he would deliver. Top post preds Disgaree with dhoni he will prove he is the man

[Dhondy]

Don't feel sorry for him. The reason Jaffer is in ahead of him is because when he has had the chance, he's latched on and played some real biggies. Gambhir has had enough starts in his 13 Tests, but never registered the big one against credible opposition. Selectors don't forget that.

[Predator_05]

Don't feel sorry for him. The reason Jaffer is in ahead of him is because when he has had the chance, he's latched on and played some real biggies. Gambhir has had enough starts in his 13 Tests, but never registered the big one against credible opposition. Selectors don't forget that.

I am not arguing for his inclusion at the expense of Jaffer. Jaffer has earned his place in the XI by scoring sh*tloads of the runs - in the manner Gambhir has done recently. Now that Sehwag is gone, he should have received another chance to prove himself in the Test arena. Jaffer also failed in his first two stints with India, so why write off Gambhir now - especially when he has been in red-hot form for well over a year ?

[Ram]

Yes. Gambhir had made atleast 4-5 distinct comebacks into the team, which means that the selectors do acknowledge his talent and performances. Just that Gambhir has failed to come up with conistent performances sustained over a period of time or truly match-winning ones. Even the times he scores , he gets out in the 70's and 80's. Will do his cause no harm if makes them into big hundreds. Gambhir has the talent to warrant a place in the Indian team , but he has to match it with consistency and match-winning/match saving efforts. After all , in internationel cricket, its these two that count in the end.

[Holysmoke]

I'd have gambhir as opener instead of karthik, who would take ganguly's spot.

[THX_1138]

i think gambhir is a bit like our very own kallis, i.e. while his career has begun slow, it has promise and it has truck loads of runs in it. infact, unlike kallis, gambhir plays fast. however, he needs to put more of a price on his wicket and curb some of that aggression, especially in test matches. i think he is the perfect foil for our openers. infact, between him, jaffer and karthik, we might just have a top order that can play the fast moving ball.

[THX_1138]

I'd have gambhir as opener instead of karthik' date=' who would take ganguly's spot.[/quote'] karthik is too good a player to have to partner tail enders. case in point the third test in south africa. he was the only batsman who was making confident runs in the third innings and had it not been for the fact that he eventually ran out of partners, we might hav added a good 70-100 runs more which would could have been decisive!

[Dhondy]

Pred, if you feel like that about Gambhir, I wonder how you feel about Kaif. The guy has scored against decent opposition in Tests when all else has failed, and finds himself out, not just of the team but of the squad, and very, very far from selectorial consideration. IMO, that's one guy who is truly luckless.

[Bumper]

Gambhir regularly fails against big opponents, almost never misses out against weak attacks. Add to it, his failure to score big when is in, this guy wont make it at the test level.

IMO, that's one guy who is truly luckless.

Tell me u are kidding Dhondy. Kaif is one lucky barstard. The guy rode on one innings for 5 years in ODIs. He didnt set the world on fire in Tests either. He is a limited talent, who has had more than his fair share of opportunities at the international level. Give the same no. of opportunities to anyone else, they'll grab their spot with both hands. U dont have to look any further than Karthik for an example. Kaif thru out his short career with the team, was always a 50-50 selection. The only batsman who can whinge about his luck is Very Very Sorry Laxman.

[Predator_05]

Pred, if you feel like that about Gambhir, I wonder how you feel about Kaif. The guy has scored against decent opposition in Tests when all else has failed, and finds himself out, not just of the team but of the squad, and very, very far from selectorial consideration. IMO, that's one guy who is truly luckless.

Very true. I said the same in this thread ---> http://www.indiancricketfans.com/showthread.php?t=287&highlight=kaif&page=2

Tell me u are kidding Dhondy. Kaif is one lucky barstard. The guy rode on one innings for 5 years in ODIs. The only batsman who can whinge about his luck is Very Very Sorry Laxman.

LMFAO. One innings ? Either you are being ignorant for the hell of it, or your memory is dying with age. Kaif has scored in India's biggest wins in recent years. Forget that Natwest Series final (even though its the ONLY trophy India have won in the last 8 years !!). India would have won f*ck all in that 02/03 season without some of his best innings. ICC Champions Trophy 2002 ? India were 76/5 in their opening match vs Zimbabwe. Kaif scored 111* and India scored just enough to squeak home by 12 runs or so. Without that innings, the team would have packed up and left. '03 World Cup ? India were 21/3 vs NZ and 149 looked miles away as Bond was steaming in at 96 mph. Who took India home with 68* ? His innings vs PAK was absolutely VITAL too. India 52/2, PAK back in the game after 2 wickets in 2 balls - Kaif stayed there, smashed Waqar's yorkers for fours and had that crucial partnership with Tendulkar. '04 PAK tour ? India 94/4 and then reeling at 160/5 after Yuvraj got out, chasing Pakistan's 292. Who scored a run a ball 71* to finish off that game and bring the series back to 2-2 ? I am not saying he should be in the team; there are better players around, but to say that he stayed in the side for 5 years because of 1 innings is just foolish. ...as for Laxman being unlucky, what a joke that is. The guy has played a 100 ODIs and over 80 Test matches. Yeah, so unlucky. To even compare him with Gambhir and Kaif - guys who get cut no matter how much they score - is just LAUGHABLE

[King]

Between these formidable score Gambhir scores so many single digit scores people tend to forget his better inning. At times at the top of the order even scoring 20 or 30 runs in tough conditions helps. It doesn't always has to be hundreds that catch attention. Look at his recent scores in ODI, he scored a good 100 against Bangladesh and then when he got a chance to score some runs against South Africa in tough conditions he came a cropper. Jaffer is a little similar too he tends to score big once in a test series and the rest of the times he scores in single digit. In short, Gambhir is not luckless but he is not consistent enough.

[Bumper]

LMFAO. One innings ? Either you are being ignorant for the hell of it, or your memory is dying with age. Kaif has scored in India's biggest wins in recent years. Forget that Natwest Series final (even though its the ONLY trophy India have won in the last 8 years !!). India would have won f*ck all in that 02/03 season without some of his best innings. ICC Champions Trophy 2002 ? India were 76/5 in their opening match vs Zimbabwe. Kaif scored 111* and India scored just enough to squeak home by 12 runs or so. Without that innings, the team would have packed up and left. '03 World Cup ? India were 21/3 vs NZ and 149 looked miles away as Bond was steaming in at 96 mph. Who took India home with 68* ? His innings vs PAK was absolutely VITAL too. India 52/2, PAK back in the game after 2 wickets in 2 balls - Kaif stayed there, smashed Waqar's yorkers for fours and had that crucial partnership with Tendulkar. '04 PAK tour ? India 94/4 and then reeling at 160/5 after Yuvraj got out, chasing Pakistan's 292. Who scored a run a ball 71* to finish off that game and bring the series back to 2-2 ? I am not saying he should be in the team; there are better players around, but to say that he stayed in the side for 5 years because of 1 innings is just foolish. ...as for Laxman being unlucky, what a joke that is. The guy has played a 100 ODIs and over 80 Test matches. Yeah, so unlucky. To even compare him with Gambhir and Kaif - guys who get cut no matter how much they score - is just LAUGHABLE

Kaif as a ODI player has been a miserable failure for the no. of chances he's got. The lifeline thrown to him, was based on the NatWest victory and the rather LOOONG list of 3 innings, is indictment enuff of his career (rather than a compliment). Even in the 3 u list, one was against a minnow, one was a low scoring affair & the last one came when dew made sure bowling attack wasnt much of factor. In short, Kaif has never won games for us & has only played a second fiddle role in the one he succeeded (there may be one or two exceptions, but thats about the norm with Kaif). He is a brilliant fielder, he bats at 7, he runs quickly are all excuses to justify his spot in the team. Heck Yuvraj who batted as low down the order, for most of his career, has won a dozen games for us. Oflate, Karthik who bats in similar positions, has done atleast as well as Kaif with the limited opportunities he's got. Limited talent, mediocre consistency, who was given an inexplicably long run in the team. Kaif in short is a synonym for 'uselessness'.

[Predator_05]

Kaif as a ODI player has been a miserable failure for the no. of chances he's got. The lifeline thrown to him' date=' was based on the NatWest victory and the rather LOOONG list of 3 innings, is indictment enuff of his career (rather than a compliment). Even in the 3 u list, one was against a minnow, one was a low scoring affair & the last one came when dew made sure bowling attack wasnt much of factor. [/quote'] What are these, excuses ? They were close games in which most other batsmen failed to make a score. Without those innings, India wouldn't have done as well as they did in those series. I only gave 3 innings because i don't have the time to educate you by bringing up his other useful knocks. Answer this --> would India have these matches without Kaif's contribution ?

In short' date=' Kaif has never won games for us & has only played a second fiddle role in the one he succeeded (there may be one or two exceptions, but thats about the norm with Kaif).[/quote'] LOL @ "Kaif has never won games for us". I gave you several instances, so open your eyes. PS; that statement of yours (second fiddle, can't win matches blah blah) is reminiscent of what people used to say about Rahul Dravid pre-2002. There is nothing wrong with having a middle order batsman who plays second fiddle, it's called putting a price on your wicket.

he bats at 7' date=' he runs quickly are all excuses to justify his spot in the team. [/quote'] Time for some cricket101. Batsmen who bat at #7 hardly ever get a proper look in. Why ? Because they often have to walk in during the slog overs (usually with under 15 overs remaining), when the field is set and quick runs are needed. Kaif's game isn't suited to that role, but he still averaged 30 in that position and played useful innings. Just so you know, he averages over 40 at #3 and #4.

Heck Yuvraj who batted as low down the order' date=' for most of his career.[/quote'] He never batted at #7. Yuvraj played most of his games at #5 and #6, and average wise - until that blockbuster '06 season - he was in the same class as Kaif.

[Bumper]

Its a waste of my time debating Kaif's uselessness.

LOL @ "Kaif has never won games for us". I gave you several instances, so open your eyes. PS; that statement of yours (second fiddle, can't win matches blah blah) is reminiscent of what people used to say about Rahul Dravid pre-2002. There is nothing wrong with having a middle order batsman who plays second fiddle, it's called putting a price on your wicket

Was Dravid as mediocre interms of consistency ? The mediocre Dravid of pre-2002 was one of our highest scorers in world cup 1999. There is nothing wrong in being a second fiddler, as along as you are consistent. Atleast then the team can count on you to consolidate the innings or even set one up for the finishers. But with Kaif's consistency him being a nudger and second fiddle made him a baggage, given the strong batting lineup we had in the time he played for us.

Time for some cricket101. Batsmen who bat at #7 hardly ever get a proper look in. Why ? Because they often have to walk in during the slog overs (usually with under 15 overs remaining), when the field is set and quick runs are needed. Kaif's game isn't suited to that role, but he still averaged 30 in that position and played useful innings.

Thanks for the education. Pray tell, how come Yuvraj who frequently came in with 7-8 overs remaining, was able to play blinders (albeit a 30 or a 40) & turn games around ? U gotta bat at the slot the team wants u to. To bat higher in the order, u need to be better than the top order batsmen, which Kaif wasnt.

Just so you know, he averages over 40 at #3 and #4.

Did u take out the minnows ?

He never batted at #7. Yuvraj played most of his games at #5 and #6, and average wise - until that blockbuster '06 season - he was in the same class as Kaif.

No. 5 or no. 6 is moot. How many overs did they get to bat is the key. Yuvraj was a dangerous bat with 7-8 overs left. I recall his blinder at Gwalior vs Aus, vs Pakistan in one of the ODIs in 2005, to quote a few from the top of my head. The team saw merit in promoting Yuvraj & he earned his right to bat higher. And inspite of batting lower in the order, Yuvraj scored several match winning 50s against good opponents. If Kaif were as good, he too would have found a way to establish himself in the team. But he wasnt..

[Bumper]

BTW, where did Michael Bevan (who is incidentally the batsman whom Kaif was compared to) bat and what was his average ?

[Predator_05]

Its a waste of my time debating Kaif's uselessness.

Then don't waste my time...:hysterical:

Was Dravid as mediocre interms of consistency ? The mediocre Dravid of pre-2002 was one of our highest scorers in world cup 1999. There is nothing wrong in being a second fiddler' date=' as along as you are consistent. Atleast then the team can count on you to consolidate the innings or even set one up for the finishers. But with Kaif's consistency him being a nudger and second fiddle made him a baggage, given the strong batting lineup we had in the time he played for us.[/quote'] Dravid averaged in the low-30's 'til WC '99, I know this for a fact. Naturally slow scoring players need time to develop, and Kaif was still a faster scorer than Dravid was in his early days. An average in the 30's for a #7 starved of run-scoring opportunities is very good no matter how you look at it. As for him being baggage, i don't agree with you there either. Wright and Ganguly certainly didn't think of him as baggage because he played a very specialised role at #7 - he was the insurance policy which kicked in when the rest of the batting failed.

Thanks for the education. Pray tell, how come Yuvraj who frequently came in with 7-8 overs remaining, was able to play blinders (albeit a 30 or a 40) & turn games around ? U gotta bat at the slot the team wants u to. To bat higher in the order, u need to be better than the top order batsmen, which Kaif wasnt.

Frequently came in 7-8 overs ? Yeah right. Yuvraj always had more overs to play because he was a #5. Don't tell me there is no difference in time available at the crease when you are a #5 compared to when you are a #7.

Did u take out the minnows ?

His best knocks in those positions are 68*, 93*, 102* vs NZ, 95* vs SA, two back to fifties in England back in '04...not a minnow in sight

And inspite of batting lower in the order' date=' Yuvraj scored several match winning 50s against good opponents..[/quote'] You can say the exact same thing about Kaif. Several match winning fifties against good opponents. Funny, isn't it. Yuvraj was always a much better player though, i am not arguing there. My point is that you will never know how good a batsman is if you keep playing him out of position. Case in point - Yuvraj and Kaif's averages being IDENTICAL when they were batting lower down the order. Look up cumulative career averages on stats-guru, you will be surprised.

[Predator_05]

BTW' date=' where did Michael Bevan (who is incidentally the batsman whom Kaif was compared to) bat and what was his average ?[/quote'] KAIF compared to BEVAN ? Whoever did that comparison was a fool. Bevan is one of the greatest ODI batsmen of ALL-TIME. Most batsmen wouldn't compare to him, let alone Kaif As for where he batted; here is your answer - out of the 234 matches he played for AUS, only 24 of them were at #7.

[varun]

That's a good post Predz.. Wanna put a small gambhir pic in ? and I'll make it an article.

[yoda]

gambhir lacks the temperament to play long innings and tends to throw it away more often than not. he is actually lucky to be in the reckoning again thanks to his excellent FC performance. he will get his chances. let's see what he does with them. he did blow the chances he got in the recent ODIs. and yes, test and ODI performances do tend to get mixed up in Indian cricket. btw, if selectors had applied logic, sehwag would be the opener in tests, not gambhir, not karthick.