[MERGED] Threads on M. Clarke's honesty & behaviour (re. catches/Chris Gayle in CT 06)

[Ram]

Ishant Sharma.

So ? What is the relevance of Sharma here ? I know you will you come up with a " I was merely answering the question you had asked in your post". That still doesnt explain your stoic silence on Clarke's behavior.

But when it comes to shamelessly exaggerating' date=' it's ok is it ??[/quote'] Nope. This is the SECOND time in less than 40 days that Clarke has claimed a bump-ball catch. Watch the video, esp around 2:55 LpYKrstzVmw I can understand that sometimes, the fielder doesnt know exactly if the ball bounced or not, but Clarke's reaction is a tell-tale sign. Whenever a fielder takes a sprawling diving catch, and if he "thinks" he has caught it cleanly, he will follow suit with some ecstatic celebrations. But its obvious that in this case, Clarke knows he hasnt caught the ball, which is why he doesnt spontaneously celebrate, but merely looks around to see if everyone is convinced thats out, and on confirming that, sheepishly rolls the ball towards the umpire. What a shameful player ! Hope Aus doesnt insult the legacy of some fine captains of its past by appointing a brazen cheat like Clarke as captain.

[novpj]

Thanks for the video sriram - cant believe that anyone would take the word of this cheat. He is a disgrace to his country and to the game.

[Bumper]

Great work Sriram. Ricky & his men have the morals of a reptile. Anyone who watches the video wouldnt defend Clarkey with a straight face. Slater's comments (support for Clarkey unashamedly) says it all about the morals of these blokes. And, after all this, these guys have the temerity to advocate 'gentleman's agreement' & preach the world how the game is supposed to be played. As for Ishant sharma, the guy never claimed a bump ball catch, in the first place. If anything, being a victim of poor umpiring (having seen Symmo stand his ground), he was simply putting to use what he has learnt from his opponents as a cricketer.

[Donny]

Where's the cake gone ? Oh, you blokes took it all with those last few posts. Bumper, Ishant's action (or non action) was identical to Clarke's. Bumper, "Great work Sriram" ?? For providing a video ? No mention of the three I provided ?

What a shameful player ! Hope Aus doesnt insult the legacy of some fine captains of its past by appointing a brazen cheat like Clarke as captain.

Seems India has already done this with their ODI team. Or are you also going to ignore the Dhoni claimed 'catch' ?

[Bumper]

Bumper, Ishant's action (or non action) was identical to Clarke's.

Irrelevant. If Clarke hadnt claimed the catch, no one will be talking about him standing the ground as a batsman. Infact, a batsman is well within his rights & the spirit of the game, when he stands his ground. It is when he shows/vents his disappointment after the umpire's decision, he is crossing that boundary. Clarke claimed a bump ball catch & the umpire shockingly took his word, without the need to consult the leg umpire or the third umpire. So the obvious question is how can you trust the word of someone, who cannot be trusted to walk himself after a blatant dismissal ? If Clarke had claimed a legitimate catch or not claimed any, no one would be discussing what he did as a batsman.

Bumper, "Great work Sriram" ?? For providing a video ? No mention of the three I provided ?

Where ? In this thread ? Link pls!

Seems India has already done this with their ODI team. Or are you also going to ignore the Dhoni claimed 'catch' ?

If Dhoni did this he is wrong too. You wont see me defend such behavior. And when did u see Indians volunteer a gentlemen's agreement with the opponent captain & then backstab him ? When did u see an umpire consult an Indian fielder or captain before ruling the opponent batsmen out ? And when did u see Indians last advocate trusting the fielder or captain over the umpires ?

[Donny]

Where ? In this thread ? Link pls!

It is quite clearly in post #7. Or go here in YouTube: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TmryWZ5VG8]YouTube - Is Dhoni a cheat?[/ame]

If Dhoni did this he is wrong too. You wont see me defend such behavior.

You don't have to defend him. As mm stated, " I can understand that sometimes, the fielder doesnt know exactly if the ball bounced or not" I don't think he was 'wrong' or dishonest in thinking he took the catch but, if you're going to condemn Clarke, how can you not condemn Dhoni ?

When did u see an umpire consult an Indian fielder or captain before ruling the opponent batsmen out ?

Irrelivant, as it was simply part of the Ponting/Kumble agreement. Like it or not, agree with it or not but that's the fact of the matter.

[Ram]

Man, I have never used this Popular message board terminology ever, but by seeing Donny's frequent reference to Indian players claiming bump-ball catches, all i can say is - LMAO ! :hysterical: According to general standards of accountability and integrity, people always compare with the highest standards set and not the lowest standards that are prevalent, but thats exactly what Donny is doing. Donny just keeps exposing his double standards, by not condemning Clarke's action and showing other videos of unsportsmanlike behavior by other sportsman. The question here, is clearly not about Dhoni or Ishant, but of Clarke's conduct and Donny is yet to make his stand clear on his conduct. If he wants a discussion on Dhoni's or Ishant's behavior, he is more than welcome to open a new thread and I am sure the posters will post their objective opinions.

[Bumper]

You don't have to defend him. As mm stated, " I can understand that sometimes, the fielder doesnt know exactly if the ball bounced or not" I don't think he was 'wrong' or dishonest in thinking he took the catch but, if you're going to condemn Clarke, how can you not condemn Dhoni ?

Dhoni or Clarke names dont matter. I dont think the umpires should trust anyone. Did you not see the umpire bring back Pietersen ? If Pietersen stood his ground and Dhoni or Dravid (captain) declared he was out, effectively lying to the umpire, forcing KP to give his wicket away, I would call that blatant cheating. Here Dhoni did not tell the umpire he caught it, did he ? The umpire assumed it. Dhoni did not bother (he was happy to get away with it). When Pietersen came back, no one protested it. So your example is not even close. Nor did Dhoni or Dravid wax lyrical on their integrity & how they play the game. Nor did they sound boorish to an English journo, asking him to leave the room for asking a difficult question. What Dhoni did is the equivalent of a batsman not walking after he was out, knowing he can possibly get away with it. What Clarke & Ponting did, was plain cheating. Lying to the umpire that the catch was taken, when it wasnt, EVEN AFTER THE BATSMAN EXPRESSED DOUBT. If Benson had declared Ganguly out after consulting Bucknor (without consulting Ponting or Clarke), i wont bi.tch about the Aussie morals.I'll be slating the incompetence of the umpires. Thats the way i see it.

Irrelivant, as it was simply part of the Ponting/Kumble agreement. Like it or not, agree with it or not but that's the fact of the matter.

Reptiles dont have the morals to talk about integrity. Not after such blatant cheating.

[novpj]

Yes Donny has no argument for the fact that Clark and Ponting cheated and lied about it. All he is interested is in pointing out that an Indian player might have done it too. Donny I am sure you will ignore the following differences between Dhoni's and Clarke and Ponting's incidences: a) Dhoni wears gloves and hence cant be sure about catching cleanly as a bare handed catching player can b) and more importantly Dhoni or Dravid didnt tell Vaughan that their claim of a catch should be accepted and the 3rd umpire should not be asked for as the Aussies agreed with Kumble. Can you just answer a few questions clearly: a) Do you think that Clark caught Ganguly cleanly with out any doubt b) Do you think Ponting caught Dhoni cleanly without any doubt? c) Do you agree that if they didnt catch cleanly then per their agreement with Kumble they should not have appealed or claimed the catch? d) By implication doesnt that mean that they are cheats?

[Ram]

And Bumps, as you had pointed out, even retired Aussie players dont have an iota of morality. In that Clarke video ( against NZ), how could Slater possibly think he could get away with the " Its not very clear if the ball bounced or not" comment, when , even on the first replay, it was so evidently clear that the ball had bounced. And what about Mr.Taylor ? Two replays into the Clarke "catch" of Ganguly, when nothing is really conclusive, he pompously declares, " I havent seen anything to show me that Clarke had dropped the catch". What kind of absurd goat headed logic is that ? When a doubtful catch is claimed, you look for evidence to prove the fieldsman caught the ball and not for evidence to show " he didnt drop it". Though both may SOUND similar, there is a vast difference between them. In the first case, you take a fair position, looking for clues/pointers to show the fielder caught it cleanly and if that were the case, give the batsman out. In the second case, you are starting with the presumption that the fieldsman has actually caught it, which itself is biased. Aus is team that will do anything to win, even if means pushing the limits of sportsmanship. They may get all the records on this planet, but who is going to give a damn !

[Ram]

Yes Donny has no argument for the fact that Clark and Ponting cheated and lied about it. All he is interested is in pointing out that an Indian player might have done it too. Donny I am sure you will ignore the following differences between Dhoni's and Clarke and Ponting's incidences: a) Dhoni wears gloves and hence cant be sure about catching cleanly as a bare handed catching player can b) and more importantly Dhoni or Dravid didnt tell Vaughan that their claim of a catch should be accepted and the 3rd umpire should not be asked for as the Aussies agreed with Kumble. Can you just answer a few questions clearly: a) Do you think that Clark caught Ganguly cleanly with out any doubt b) Do you think Ponting caught Dhoni cleanly without any doubt? c) Do you agree that if they didnt catch cleanly then per their agreement with Kumble they should not have appealed or claimed the catch? d) By implication doesnt that mean that they are cheats?

Excellent post Novpj ! you have pointed out some VERY important differences between the two cases and asked some hard-hitting questions.

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[Bumper]

Yes Donny has no argument for the fact that Clark and Ponting cheated and lied about it. All he is interested is in pointing out that an Indian player might have done it too. Donny I am sure you will ignore the following differences between Dhoni's and Clarke and Ponting's incidences: a) Dhoni wears gloves and hence cant be sure about catching cleanly as a bare handed catching player can b) and more importantly Dhoni or Dravid didnt tell Vaughan that their claim of a catch should be accepted and the 3rd umpire should not be asked for as the Aussies agreed with Kumble. Can you just answer a few questions clearly: a) Do you think that Clark caught Ganguly cleanly with out any doubt b) Do you think Ponting caught Dhoni cleanly without any doubt? c) Do you agree that if they didnt catch cleanly then per their agreement with Kumble they should not have appealed or claimed the catch? d) By implication doesnt that mean that they are cheats?

Good points novpj. I echoed the same thoughts in my prev post. What Dhoni did is the equivalent of a batsman not walking. If the umpire had asked Dhoni or Dravid, if Pietersen was out (assuming Pietersen himself was standing his ground, in doubt) and Dravid/Dhoni LIED to the umpire and forced Pietersen to walk and did all this after an agreement with Vaughan on fair play, then I'd gladly agree that Dhoni/Dravid are cheats. What Ponting & Clarke did, was no better than what dopey & mopey did when they took performance enhancing drugs to boost their chances of winning.

[Donny]

Man, I have never used this Popular message board terminology ever, but by seeing Donny's frequent reference to Indian players claiming bump-ball catches, all i can say is - LMAO ! :hysterical: According to general standards of accountability and integrity, people always compare with the highest standards set and not the lowest standards that are prevalent, but thats exactly what Donny is doing. Donny just keeps exposing his double standards, by not condemning Clarke's action and showing other videos of unsportsmanlike behavior by other sportsman. The question here, is clearly not about Dhoni or Ishant, but of Clarke's conduct and Donny is yet to make his stand clear on his conduct. If he wants a discussion on Dhoni's or Ishant's behavior, he is more than welcome to open a new thread and I am sure the posters will post their objective opinions.

Wriggle ..wriggle. :regular_smile: Oh yes, let's keep it out of here where's it's relevant. Where is your honesty, mm ? Double standards ? I'm not condemning anyone. In each case, with Dhoni, Gangs and Bhajji, those incidents looked worse than anything in the Sydney Test and yet you are slurring the Aussies. :whatchutalkingabout I made no judgements except to say what I did about each of them acting honourably - as in honest mistake. Except, of course, the Bhajji/KP one. That was just plain silly.

[Ram]

Wriggle ..wriggle. :regular_smile: Oh yes, let's keep it out of here where's it's relevant. Where is your honesty, mm ? Double standards ? I'm not condemning anyone. In each case, with Dhoni, Gangs and Bhajji, those incidents looked worse than anything in the Sydney Test and yet you are slurring the Aussies. :whatchutalkingabout I made no judgements except to say what I did about each of them acting honourably - as in honest mistake. Except, of course, the Bhajji/KP one. That was just plain silly.

Still radio silence on Clarke's conduct ! Bravo ! You are indeed a beacon of fairness and objective opinions ! And as i told you, if you want my opinion on Dhoni or any Indian claiming a bump ball catch, open a new threar, but only AFTER you have clearly stated your opinions on Clarke's conduct. And yes, the " I made no judgements except to say what I did about each of them acting honourably - as in honest mistake" wont work. If you maintain that for Clarke and his "catch" against NZ, you are only deluding yourself.

[Donny]

Nice piece of projection there, mm. :regular_smile:

[Ram]

Bad attempt at side-stepping the debate there, Donny :regular_smile:

[Guest HariSampath]

Clarke started walking...then stood Michael Clarke saying he stood his ground in disbelief cannot be accepted. We have seen so many players stand their ground in disbelief after playing absolutely terrible shots, sometimes even playing crossbatted swipes to be bowled...they linger for a few moments with a "how could I do that" look. That is fine by me. In Clarke's case this did NOT happen, simply because, he started to walk, and THEN lingered, looking at the umpire. Any batter with total horror or disbelief will not START to walk and then let disbelief take over. It is a laughable version by Clarke and an apology of an excuse. See the video and just try to understand if Clarke was in "disbelief"...no way

[Rajiv]

Whats the big deal if he stayed until given out? It is of no consequence and importance. Same as bhajji did when CLEAN bowled by Pitersen!!!!! He even said "**** you".. what kind of sportsmanship is that? You indian monkeys (you claim this is not an insult.. so I can use it) will make any excuse for losing.. even ignore what your own players have done! Blaming everyone else for your own incompetent loss and labeling people cheats is beyond decency in civilized society. India is weak both in cricketing skill and mental ability. Hence their not even able to beat a 3rd rate team in canberra. boo hoo hoo... the world is against you.. get over it, shut up and play better cricket you losers! If you are calling Symonds a monkey because he is black, then hello! most of you are blacker than him.

Whats the big deal if he stayed until given out? It is of no consequence and importance. It wasn't disbelief, it was do I have a chance umpire. Did you hear it on the radio by the way or you have a television set You indian monkeys (you claim this is not an insult.. so I can use it) will make any excuse for losing.. even ignore what your own players have done! It is insulting when you put it that way, just the way "bastard" is used offensively Blaming everyone else for your own incompetent loss and labeling people cheats is beyond decency in civilized society. India is weak both in cricketing skill and mental ability. Hence their not even able to beat a 3rd rate team in canberra. ..because it happened, again, you have a television set? if not, we have a videos section and you can make your own judgment; if you still don't get it then there's nothing more to say About India being weak in skill & mentality, I hope you only talking about cricket coz you really dont want to make a fool of yourself btw, have you guys even outside Austraya? coz sometimes you guys sound like typical rednecks ( I hope thats not racist )

[gs]

I am in utter disbelief at Clarke's "disbelief" excuse!!!