talksport Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 No I did not mean that.... I am talking about Pure Indians :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suma25 Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 No I did not mean that.... I am talking about Pure Indians :) lol pure indians :giggle:doesnt matter whether theyare 'pure indians' or third or fourth generation desis or guys migrated over there for fact is most of them support india while playing against oither nation in cricket matches. talking about pure indians so the guys migrating from india to sa , australia ,england who support india are not pure indians???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 i agree with fineleg here. A sport is too trivial a persuit to be a vehicle for patriotism. At the end of the day, Tendulkar is just a man whacking a ball with a stick. so what if i prefer to watch Lara whack the ball instead ? makes me any less of an iNdian ? pffft. Furthermore, it MUST be remembered that technically speaking, team India is NOT representing India but BCCI. Treason is any deliberate activity that puts your national interests in jeopardy- supporting Pakistan in cricket or Holland in hockey hardly does that. IMO, people who mix nationalism and sport take sport way too seriously and for them, it is war, not entertainment. And its rather insecure and childish to be chest-thumping about patriotism in a bloody sport....it doesnt get much lamer than that in my view. Patriotism through sport is just as silly as a kindergarten 'my papa can beat up your papa.hahahaha' type banter. In a sport, everyone has the right to support whoever they want-for whatever reason it may be.Afterall, its just a sport! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted February 1, 2008 Author Share Posted February 1, 2008 Getting the topic back to growing "confidence" of young Indians. Can anyone please elaborate on what is being meant here?? Young Indians are more "confident", how so? Is a Young Indian today confident in India or is he confident in things non-Indian? The way I see it, India is fast becoming a cultural colony of the West. The more affluent areas of India you go to, the faster you will see this change. Typical Indian bastions are dying or already dead and everything from Indian movies, music, television serials to dressing style seems to be less Indian and more foreign. So how are we becoming a confident nation, when we do not have confidence in our own traditions??? xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talksport Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 In theory Yes, it is a sport and entertainment Yada Yada.. But the reasons why people support other teams when they are playing against your own country needs to be looked at .... For instance I will be wary of people who support Pakistan in India..... Last time I heard there are ISI cells and supported Terrorist activities, in that part of region I know of celebrating Indias Losses.... I dont care about NRIs and PIOs stats, They are by definition confused and have their priorities mixed up between the emotional and physical attachments towards motherland and the country they live.. I would have thought Even for Purists of sport, they will be heart felt despair when their country loses.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talksport Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Back to topic In my opinion as I mentioned earlier economy and employment opportunities is the main reason....for a confident young generation... *** Is Westernation = Modernisation...is always a debate for the last 100 years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted February 1, 2008 Author Share Posted February 1, 2008 Back to topic In my opinion as I mentioned earlier economy and employment opportunities is the main reason....for a confident young generation... Talksport. I would like to get deeper into the subject. Is the younger generation confident that he is willing to stay at say IIT, Mumbai instead of picking a position at MIT?? Is the young generation any more aware of Ramayana/Mahabharata and all the traditional Indian classics as compared to older generation? Is the young generation more "original" when it comes to arts forms - poetry, writing, movies - or have we just become cozy with aping West? If the young generation is not confident about India, is it really confidence or merely comfortable with the West. xxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC1981 Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 For instance I will be wary of people who support Pakistan in India..... Last time I heard there are ISI cells and supported Terrorist activities, in that part of region I know of celebrating Indias Losses So what ? MoYo authorised the bombings ? Maybe someone just likes Akhtar's flair or Afridi's mad-max impression. As i said, dont mix sports and politics- its beyond lame. They are by definition confused and have their priorities mixed up between the emotional and physical attachments towards motherland and the country they live There is no confusion in my case- i am an indian by birth who moved on to better pastures. i shall forever be attached to India but never be blindly in love with it and cover up its shortcommings. Sport is for enjoyment, not for getting gung-ho and expressive about nationalism-atleast, in my eyes. I would have thought Even for Purists of sport, they will be heart felt despair when their country loses.... There are many many cricket fans all the world over who just want to see a good match, regardless of who wins/loses. Nationalism in sports is just very very lame in my opinion. Yes, there are a lot of people who do it, but there are a lot of lame people too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talksport Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 CC1981, do you just read some sentences or you read the whole post ...:D Without getting the ire of Lurker,I agree with you and at the same time disagree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted February 1, 2008 Author Share Posted February 1, 2008 Without getting the ire of Lurker,I agree with you and at the same time disagree with you. I know. Its not an easy subject really but one that is fun to dive into. Personally I don't think there is any sea-change as far as confidence is concerned. No. If my generation does much better than my Dad's, it is not because my Dad is any less confident than I am. Not at all. It is more to do with oppertunities that our generation has, which they did not. But since when did "oppertunity" become the same as "confidence"? A good example that comes to mind is say there are two chaps, same age. One from Mumbai other from a smaller town. Would the latter be any less confident than the former since Mumbai has more oppertunities? NO. Quite frankly there is a good chance that the lad from the smaller town may actually have more confidence since he has to make his way up the ladder and had real life experiences on the way. Yes the lad from Mumbai might have access to latest video games, McDonald, rap clothing etc but is that what confidence is? I hope not. xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talksport Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 But again the majority of affluent do not represent India..... Its the Indian Middle Class which predominanly represent Indian ... Yes they are becoming comfortable with west , at the same time they are not losing the identity IMO. The traditional values between generations will become dilute ( which always will be the case ) and become orthodox but never the core values.... Arent we Indians in a great position to see and evaluate the both worlds and get the best of both .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted February 1, 2008 Author Share Posted February 1, 2008 Its the Indian Middle Class which predominanly represent Indian ... Yes they are becoming comfortable with west , at the same time they are not losing the identity IMO. The traditional values between generations will become dilute ( which always will be the case ) and become orthodox but never the core values.... I think it is actually on the contrary. Put it this way. An average Indian woman in your Mom's generation would be well aversed with typical traditions like making pickles at home(specially true for middle class family), compare it with how many Indian woman of our generation know that? Think of your Dad's generation and imagine their dressing style - Kurta, lungi etc - and think of the bulk of guys from our generation now. Look towards the Indian movies(Hindi or regional) and see how the target audience has dramatically shifted from the middle-class(a la Hrishikesh Mukherjee movies) to upper class/NRI crowd. I can give more examples but I hope that shall suffice for now. Arent we Indians in a great position to see and evaluate the both worlds and get the best of both .... Actually I tend to think, maybe a tad pessimistically, that Indians of our generation are in the position where we will see many of the Indian traditions die right front of our eyes. Twenty years back if a Bihari travelled to Chennai his wife would ask him to get him a Kanjivaram silk saree, today I wont be surprised if the request is to get a vaccum machine or an iPod. xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fineleg Posted February 1, 2008 Share Posted February 1, 2008 Lurker, What is confidence? rhetorical, but i mean to say there is a context around it. The way I see it - "Indians are more confident now" is said in a context. Indians are more confident of being able to pursue their ambitions + afford a decent lifestyle. Thats what this confidence means. Ambition pursuit (at the same time affording to live decently well). This context has nothing to do with older traditions etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted February 1, 2008 Author Share Posted February 1, 2008 The way I see it - "Indians are more confident now" is said in a context. Indians are more confident of being able to pursue their ambitions + afford a decent lifestyle. Thats what this confidence means. Ambition pursuit (at the same time affording to live decently well). This context has nothing to do with older traditions etc. Of course it is. What makes one an Indian? What makes one a Tamilian(or Teleugu or Bihari or whatever) for that matter? It is clearly these traditions. Why does a Tamilian who lives in US for generation still loves his dosas? Is it a culinary choice or is it a taste he acquired by birth? Why does he still watch Tamil movies, listens to Tamil songs and insist on teaching Tamil language to his kids? When his kids/daughters grow up why does he look first for a match within his community first, then within Indian community and finally outside? And what are these if not traditions? These are examples of people living outside India, if you talk of Indians in India the traditional touch becomes that much more absorbing. So when one says - Indian are becoming more confident - does it not also mean that on some level Indians are becoming confident about their own traditions too? If a person is born in India and is actually more of a America-phile than an Indo-phile then should I call him as a confident Indian? xxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fineleg Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 lurker, the confidence mentioned here (by many folks, articles etc), i think refer to economic confidence - financial independence. im not discounting what u say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aditi Posted February 2, 2008 Share Posted February 2, 2008 We should all just call ourselves "global citizens" :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted February 4, 2008 Author Share Posted February 4, 2008 We should all just call ourselves "global citizens" Tell you the truth I havent yet made up my mind on this concept of "global citizenship". To me it sounds more like "comfort citizenship". I mean global citizenship by definition means a person is as much a citizen of USA as he is of Ethiopia. But how many global citizens do you see ready to move to Ethiopia? The migration is strictly one way - towards West. And the concept of global citizens is almost always a case of (dual) citizenship with their motherland as well as the West. Nothing wrong there, afterall its a matter of personal choice - jehan dil kare wehan raho - just that I dont quite see the way that term is coined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dada_rocks Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 I have a just-concluded India-trip travel anecodte to share on this issue: Met a doctor couple Jhaji by looks of it in their 50's in Swatantrata Senani express on return trip. He had quite a humble outlook undelined by those knotted hair-tuft and all ( reminded me of my old self). In course of chit-chat cricket figured and there I deliberately made a disparaging remark about prospects of Indian team down-under after 20-20 fiasco, just to see what kind of response I get ( yes I do this sort of experiment all the time in India to feel the pulse:giggle:). I was expecting a nod in agreement but I was up for a surprise not only he disagreed with my observation but also gave me an indirect chiding saying how we Indians are so trigger happy to put down our own. I continued for some time with the charade of the debate happily smiling inside over what I just witnessed. Moral of the story forget Generation X even generation Y have changed and are ozzing with confidence. Yes there is nothing scienitific about this finding and it does remain a mere anecdote at the end of the day; but it certainly tells something about new India. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fineleg Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 Lurks, Thats a good term - comfort citizenship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suraj Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 I think girls from Gen X are hotter than earlier generations and that's all that matters to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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