India will become Pak of the 90s

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I'll tell you when Ishant and Sreesanth's rivals play two back to back series without breaking down, Bumps. Right now, it's like discussing Hawking's work- probably will make a nice read, but entirely hypothetical, as the match-up might never happen. I am not sure that Gul or Asif will ever be Test class bowlers again. Asif used steroids to speed his recovery from his last injury- you really can't do that sort of thing again and again. It's a pretty serious elbow injury he had, much worse than Binga's. Gul is facked. He'll be reduced to a 128 kph bowler because his back will fracture if he tries to attain higher speeds. He's pretty much done for- a Test or two here and there, maybe.

Fair enough. But Asif has been an influential bowler in almost every test series he's been part of, though. He won them the Ind-Pak series, Pak-SL series, won them the lone test vs SA in SA and also did fairly well in the only test he played vs Eng, reducing KP to dust. He does struggle on flat tracks, but give him a wicket that has something in it, he will likely be the best of the 4 bowlers above, in such conditions. Ishant & Sree have to prove their mettle in a couple of more tours to match Asif.

[Dhondy]

Fair enough. But Asif has been an influential bowler in almost every test series he's been part of, though. He won them the Ind-Pak series, Ind-SL series, won them the lone test vs SA in SA and also did fairly well in the only test he played vs Eng, reducing KP to dust. He does struggle on flat tracks, but give him a wicket that has something in it, he will likely be the best of the 4 bowlers above, in such conditions. Ishant & Sree have to prove their mettle in a couple of more tours to match Asif.

He was on dope at that time. As soon as he was found out, his performances fell off. Interesting to see how he comes back without the stuff.

[MundaPakistani]

Fair enough. But Asif has been an influential bowler in almost every test series he's been part of, though. He won them the Ind-Pak series, Ind-SL series, won them the lone test vs SA in SA and also did fairly well in the only test he played vs Eng, reducing KP to dust. He does struggle on flat tracks, but give him a wicket that has something in it, he will likely be the best of the 4 bowlers above, in such conditions.Ishant & Sree have to prove their mettle in a couple of more tours to match Asif.

A wicket like the one at Karachi in 06 and we could have a fantastic battle.

[MundaPakistani]

He was on dope at that time. As soon as he was found out' date=' his performances fell off. Interesting to see how he comes back without the stuff.[/quote'] errr... you just said that he used drugs to recover from an injury. Was he injured before IND's tour of PAK? no. Was he injured before the tour of Sri Lanka? No.

[Bumper]

He may have possibly been dope tainted on the English & SA tour. But on skill level, i would place him at the very top, though. The thing that amazes me about him, is how quickly he hits match form, after being out with an injury for extended periods of time. Very often, he's effective & taking wickets in his very first game, he's back from injury.

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In all likelihood, the PCB jokers will kill Asif's career by mismanaging his workload. Speaking of workload, Ishant is already complaining of stomach cramps. Dhoni must rest him for the next two ODIs.

When asked if the workload has been an issue, Ishant said he was fine even if he felt a "little tired" at the end of today's encounter. "I was a bit tired and I had stomach aches but I have bowled long spells and my stamina is improving."

[Dhondy]

Bumps, just digressing slightly, I do feel that Pakistan are using Asif and Gul's absence as an excuse for their failures. In the Perth Test, India went in without their two frontline bowlers in Zaheer & Sreesanth and ended up beating Australia on the fastest pitch in the world. That says something for their bench strength, doesn't it? To be a successful side, you need more than one or two star performers. I believe Pakistan are using injuries as a cover for their overall mediocrity. They are a side in rapid decline. Some of the players that are turning out in their colours wouldn't make it to India's Ranji sides.

[Dhondy]

errr... you just said that he used drugs to recover from an injury. Was he injured before IND's tour of PAK? no. Was he injured before the tour of Sri Lanka? No.

Nobody knows for certain. However, cheats often don't confine their cheating to a certain period. It's a bad habit that becomes pretty addictive, given the success it often brings.

[Dhondy]

He may have possibly been dope tainted on the English & SA tour. But on skill level' date=' i would place him at the very top, though. The thing that amazes me about him, is how quickly he hits match form, after being out with an injury for extended periods of time. Very often, he's effective & taking wickets in his very first game, he's back from injury.[/quote'] Skills are irrelevant when you are a confirmed dope cheat. Marion Jones won five Olympic golds, didn't she? Right now, she's in gaol for perjury. Sports and dope don't mix. Otherwise, the likes of Jones, Ben Johnson and Gatlin would be household names.

[MundaPakistani]

Nobody knows for certain. However' date=' cheats often don't confine their cheating to a certain period. It's a bad habit that becomes pretty addictive, given the success it often brings.[/quote'] oh so he was using the drug to cure an injury that never happened? :hmmmm:

[Guest dada_rocks]

Oh no some Justice Qayoom Report is in offing even in India then

[Dhondy]

oh so he was using the drug to cure an injury that never happened? :hmmmm:

Asif injured his elbow, recovered and was fingered for dope soon after by PCB, only to be let off in what turned out to be a sham show. You'd assume therefore that he was using nandrolone to speed his recovery from injury. Others have used these steroids for similar purposes in the past. However, what it doesn't answer is whether he has used these agents in the past to boost muscle bulk? As I said, we'll never know, but people rarely discover "dope" one fine day. He'd have been aware of it long before and therefore could have been using it for a while. It's well known that Pakistani coaches often disseminate methods that are...ummm...not strictly legal. Dope use could be one such "lesson" that led to his rapid improvement as a bowler. See, that's the problem with being a convicted dope cheat. Everything you ever achieved comes under a shadow.

[Bumper]

Bumps, just digressing slightly, I do feel that Pakistan are using Asif and Gul's absence as an excuse for their failures. In the Perth Test, India went in without their two frontline bowlers in Zaheer & Sreesanth and ended up beating Australia on the fastest pitch in the world. That says something for their bench strength, doesn't it? To be a successful side, you need more than one or two star performers. I believe Pakistan are using injuries as a cover for their overall mediocrity. They are a side in rapid decline. Some of the players that are turning out in their colours wouldn't make it to India's Ranji sides.

Agree. Pak's bench strength is piss poor. PCB has to take a fair share of blame as well. They just overuse the currently fit player to a point of breakdown, which isnt much given their level of fitness. Even in batting, the country seems too crazed by entertainers such as Afridis and Imran Nazirs than the gutsy Asim Kamals. Misbah, is a windfall i must say. Came out of nowhere & has solidified his spot in the lower order. But he's too old to be their future. In addition to cricketing abilities, PCB has to worry about keeping their best players off the ICL roster. Methinks, Afridi is an year away from signing with ICL.

[Predator_05]

Agree. Pak's bench strength is piss poor. .

Bench strength ? Their whole team is piss poor

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Bench strength ? Their whole team is piss poor

If they play a fully fit team (AAG attack) + Moyo + YK + Misbah, i expect them to be a force. But thats a BIG IF. The last time Shoaib & Asif played together, they bowled out SA in SA for 124.

[MundaPakistani]

Asif injured his elbow, recovered and was fingered for dope soon after by PCB, only to be let off in what turned out to be a sham show. You'd assume therefore that he was using nandrolone to speed his recovery from injury. Others have used these steroids for similar purposes in the past. However, what it doesn't answer is whether he has used these agents in the past to boost muscle bulk? As I said, we'll never know, but people rarely discover "dope" one fine day. He'd have been aware of it long before and therefore could have been using it for a while. It's well known that Pakistani coaches often disseminate methods that are...ummm...not strictly legal. Dope use could be one such "lesson" that led to his rapid improvement as a bowler. See, that's the problem with being a convicted dope cheat. Everything you ever achieved comes under a shadow.

So let me get what you are saying - Skill as in the ability to seam the ball all over the place or spin the ball(as was the case with Warne) comes from drugs. - Asif used drugs to recover from an injury and his success was due to that ...but when i proved that your logic was faulty because he wasn't injured before the IND or the SL series you went ahead and said - He was using drugs to boost muscles( when looking at his body in the series against ENG it would seem that the drugs were have an opposite effect). p.s I am not denying that he made a mistake and has tarnished a very promising career.

[Mr. Wicket]

If they play a fully fit team (AAG attack) + Moyo + YK + Misbah' date=' i expect them to be a force.[/quote'] And if I won the lottery tomorrow I'd be a very rich man. Keep in mind as well that Mohammad Yousuf is 33 years old, starting to show his age with back issues and my guess is that his reflexes, scoring and other aspects of his batsmanship are going to start to fade, bringing his average and productivity down soon. Misbah's even older, a few months closer to his 34th birthday. Younis is at peak, just 30 years with several more left in the tank. But 2 out of 3 of their major batsmen are aging and will soon start to show signs of decline. The difference is that Pakistan have little pure batting talent coming through. There's nobody new, so they recycle the same old ones - Nazir, Farhat, Hameed, Faisal, etc, most of whom remain relatively mediocre. They have little bench strength, and any dominance of theirs will have a fairly short life at the top level. Even now they are simply not good enough to go toe to toe with South Africa, India or Australia, and I suspect that they'll go downhill after the next few years when Yousuf and Misbah retire. OTOH, I'm much more optimistic than Gambit about India. This talk about India not having batsmen for the long term is rubbish. Watch Ajinkya Rahane bat. He's 19, has oodles of patience and the ability to bat long and big, can go slowly in f/c games and can also attack beautifully with a wonderful technique and temperament. This kid has test opener written all over him. And then there's a whole bunch of other youngsters piling up the runs - Raina, Rohit - who has nerves of steel and some incredible strokes and a lot of others like Ravi Teja, Tanmay Srivastava, Abhishek Nayar as well as others like Kaif who I think is turning the corner and is going to become a serious batting contender for the next few years now that he's learned how to play big innings.

[MundaPakistani]

Agree. Pak's bench strength is piss poor. PCB has to take a fair share of blame as well. They just overuse the currently fit player to a point of breakdown, which isnt much given their level of fitness. Even in batting, the country seems too crazed by entertainers such as Afridis and Imran Nazirs than the gutsy Asim Kamals. Misbah, is a windfall i must say. Came out of nowhere & has solidified his spot in the lower order. But he's too old to be their future. In addition to cricketing abilities, PCB has to worry about keeping their best players off the ICL roster. Methinks, Afridi is an year away from signing with ICL.

I agree. The likes of Rao, Tanvir and M Sami(of today) aren't test class. There is a need to try out the youngsters like Sohail Khan, Anwar Ali, Ayub etc.