The Rahul Dravid VS Inzi-Ul-Haq

[King]

Re: The Rahul Dravid VS Inzi-Ul-Haq I'm not ruling out Rahul Dravid as an effective ODI player. The recent record of him reaching 10000 is a testimony to that but I've watched Inzi since 1992 and I have to say he has played a lot of fantastic knocks. His ODI form has dipped few times but has shown fantastic consistency. Rahul Dravid has been in great touch since 1998-99 and if he carries on for the next couple of years or three he will be way better than Inzi. Rahul Dravid as you would expect is a very consistent performer in both forms of cricket since few years but am taking into account the entire career while deciding between them.

[Sooda]

Re: The Rahul Dravid VS Inzi-Ul-Haq RD is better on Harder/seaming wickets.. but he isnt better by too much. A lot of the runs he scored in Aus was agst a 2nd string attack. ( He DID score that 180-odd with VVSL at the other end vs McWarne and all- at home) His knock at Headingly in 02 was class, but even that English team was missing a few key players. He does have a century in SAf vs Donald and Pollock, more than you can say about Inzy. This is a close one. Inzamam hit his peak a few years ago, but I think it really nearing the end of his career, and as CC pointed out he is the go to man in a crisis. Even more so than Dravid almost and that IS saying something. Cant argue with that match winningness. Id go for Dravid if I had to pick one of the two (in tests i.e), but more because hes Indian than anything else...

[Predator_05]

Re: The Rahul Dravid VS Inzi-Ul-Haq

but even that English team was missing a few key players.

Don't talk trash. That English team was full-strength at the time; coming off a 2-0 series win against SL several months before. Perhaps you could enlighten us as to who these "key players" were ??

[King]

Re: The Rahul Dravid VS Inzi-Ul-Haq

RD is better on Harder/seaming wickets.. but he isnt better by too much. A lot of the runs he scored in Aus was agst a 2nd string attack. ( He DID score that 180-odd with VVSL at the other end vs McWarne and all- at home) His knock at Headingly in 02 was class, but even that English team was missing a few key players.

That to be honest is baseless comment. Rahul Dravid has one of the best records for any batsman overseas. That simply shows he has performed consistently everywhere including at home. I guess you have never looked up Inzi's performances around the world. This excatly is why I said Inzi v Rahul is not even a comparison in test cricket. Rahul Dravid is one of the top bats of all time, Inzi to be honest is neither in top tier or the second in test cricket.

[Predator_05]

Re: The Rahul Dravid VS Inzi-Ul-Haq I'd say they are both 2nd tier, Ravi - the stats measure up.

[King]

Re: The Rahul Dravid VS Inzi-Ul-Haq For now yes but I know Rahul has the ability to go strength to strength in the next couple of years or three. I won't be surprised by the end he will be in the first tier of players. As for Inzi I rate Miandad better than him. Inzi is a very good bat but overall he struggles and I've seen him many a times bat like a dud. Miandad to me was the best to come out of Pakistan. Inzi is not mentally as tough as he is made out to be, Miandad well and truly was one tough cricketer. Of course I'm referring to test cricket here.

[yoda]

Re: The Rahul Dravid VS Inzi-Ul-Haq

I'd say they are both 2nd tier' date=' Ravi - the stats measure up.[/quote'] what?

[Predator_05]

Re: The Rahul Dravid VS Inzi-Ul-Haq

For now yes but I know Rahul has the ability to go strength to strength in the next couple of years or three.

I am not anywhere near as certain as you are. This depends on how well he manages the burden of captaincy simulataneously with his batting. The SA tour was a real shocker for him; the worst series he ahs ever had since the '99 AUS tour; not one single 50 to his credit. His batting average as captain doesnt make for a very encouraging read either; 45 as opposed to a stellar 57 as a player alone. Most batsmen would be quite pleased with scoring 45 a dig, but for Dravid that is a serious decline.

[kumble_rocks]

Re: The Rahul Dravid VS Inzi-Ul-Haq

For now yes but I know Rahul has the ability to go strength to strength in the next couple of years or three. I won't be surprised by the end he will be in the first tier of players. As for Inzi I rate Miandad better than him. Inzi is a very good bat but overall he struggles and I've seen him many a times bat like a dud. Miandad to me was the best to come out of Pakistan. Inzi is not mentally as tough as he is made out to be, Miandad well and truly was one tough cricketer. Of course I'm referring to test cricket here.

Miandad struggled against the mighty West Indies of the 70's and 80's . He did not have century against them for a long time. I personally think that his mental toughness was overrated. But in the same token ,Inzi struggled against Australia. They nearly have the same away average of 46 which is lower than their carreer average of 50 and 52 respectively. So , I would call it even steven between them.

[King]

Re: The Rahul Dravid VS Inzi-Ul-Haq

I am not anywhere near as certain as you are. This depends on how well he manages the burden of captaincy simulataneously with his batting. The SA tour was a real shocker for him; the worst series he ahs ever had since the '99 AUS tour; not one single 50 to his credit. His batting average as captain doesnt make for a very encouraging read either; 45 as opposed to a stellar 57 as a player alone. Most batsmen would be quite pleased with scoring 45 a dig, but for Dravid that is a serious decline.

It is not like the rest of the team played well on those pitches. There was one 100 by Jaffer through out the test series. At times you have to consider rest of the variables too. Rahul Dravid is as capable as he was a year ago but at times there will be failures and that's part and parcel of the game. Going by that theory Lara, Tendulkars should have given up playing cricket by now but they had quality enough to still make a come back. Going just by one bad series you can't doubt a quality player's ability. If he fails in yet another couple of series or three then yes you can be unsure but not right now.

[King]

Re: The Rahul Dravid VS Inzi-Ul-Haq

Miandad struggled against the mighty West Indies of the 70's and 80's . He did not have century against them for a long time. I personally think that his mental toughness was overrated. But in the same token ' date='Inzi struggled against Australia. They nearly have the same away average of 46 which is lower than their carreer average of 50 and 52 respectively. So , I would call it even steven between them.[/quote'] Who didn't struggle against the mighty West Indies those days barring very few? That is why Miandad isn't considered the best batsman in the world but is in second tier. It is not like he disliked fast bowling, he had a good enough record against the likes of Lillee, Thommo and the rest.

[CC1981]

Re: The Rahul Dravid VS Inzi-Ul-Haq

Miandad struggled against the mighty West Indies of the 70's and 80's . He did not have century against them for a long time. I personally think that his mental toughness was overrated. But in the same token ,Inzi struggled against Australia. They nearly have the same away average of 46 which is lower than their carreer average of 50 and 52 respectively. So , I would call it even steven between them.

I'd rate Miandad ahead. He could get into people's minds and while i think Inzy is a tad better against hostile pace bowling, Javed could absolutely murder spin bowling and i'd rate his spin play as one of the best ever. Inzy is not really 'one of the best ever' either at playing spin or pace.

[MundaPakistani]

Re: The Rahul Dravid VS Inzi-Ul-Haq

As for Inzi I rate Miandad better than him. Inzi is a very good bat but overall he struggles and I've seen him many a times bat like a dud. Miandad to me was the best to come out of Pakistan. Inzi is not mentally as tough as he is made out to be, Miandad well and truly was one tough cricketer. Of course I'm referring to test cricket here.

Yea Miandad was class, a lot of people will say that he was easily PAK's greatest batsman but i only watched him play for 4-5 year hence i don?t give a genuine opinion. All I can say is that i rate Inzi higher than Saeed not because of pure batsman ship but because of Inzi?s longevity (Saeed only played 55 test matches).

[Predator_05]

Re: The Rahul Dravid VS Inzi-Ul-Haq

Going by that theory Lara' date=' Tendulkars should have given up playing cricket by now but they had quality enough to still make a come back. Going just by one bad series you can't doubt a quality player's ability. If he fails in yet another couple of series or three then yes you can be unsure but not right now.[/quote'] Fair enough; Dravid can be given as many chances as he needs - he's earned that right. Since we're on this subject, it's worth mentioning that Tendulkar and Lara hardly ever let their batting averages drop under 50 (Lara did in his first stint, but not in his 2nd or 3rd - in fact he has taken his batting average as capt. as high 57 now)...and both played under more pressure, in weaker batting lineups, with less adminsitrative support.

[King]

Re: The Rahul Dravid VS Inzi-Ul-Haq Tendulkar, Lara are on a different plain altogether. They may not be as as consistent as say Rahul, Gavaskar, Steve Waugh but there is something that seperates them both from the rest. Ponting and Rahul are closing the gap recently but it will take some massive numbers in the next couple of years or three to really convince they are better off than these two.

[MundaPakistani]

Re: The Rahul Dravid VS Inzi-Ul-Haq

Ponting and Rahul are closing the gap recently but it will take some massive numbers in the next couple of years or three to really convince they are better off than these two.

Ponting has already achieved that IMO. Ever since he moved up to #3 he has become a truly great batsman and it's no surprise that his average at #3 is close to 68 from 69 matches.

[King]

Re: The Rahul Dravid VS Inzi-Ul-Haq

Yea Miandad was class, a lot of people will say that he was easily PAK's greatest batsman but i only watched him play for 4-5 year hence i don?t give a genuine opinion. All I can say is that i rate Inzi higher than Saeed not because of pure batsman ship but because of Inzi?s longevity (Saeed only played 55 test matches).

I have watched him fair bit, also have watched his earlier videos and have read a lot of autobiographies. A lot of bowlers including Hadlee, Lillee have confirmed he was extremely hard to bowl to. Coming from Lillee, the one that went physical on Miandad says a lot about the respect Miandad commanded from bowlers around the world.

[King]

Re: The Rahul Dravid VS Inzi-Ul-Haq

Ponting and Rahul are closing the gap recently but it will take some massive numbers in the next couple of years or three to really convince they are better off than these two.

Ponting has already achieved that IMO. Ever since he moved up to #3 he has become a truly great batsman and it's no surprise that his average at #3 is close to 68 from 69 matches.

His run scoring has been brilliant over the last couple of years or three but it is never permanent. All it takes is few failures for him to fall apart. Tendulkar, Lara have had golden runs like that for a longer period of time but have had their downs too. Hayden, Gilly, Vaughan, Yousuf have all been there but have found that kind of hot form not lasting for too long (Yousuf not yet). As I said I would still wait for the next 2-3 years before Ponting can be classed along side Tendulakar and Lara.

[Sooda]

Re: The Rahul Dravid VS Inzi-Ul-Haq

but even that English team was missing a few key players.

Don't talk trash. That English team was full-strength at the time; coming off a 2-0 series win against SL several months before. Perhaps you could enlighten us as to who these "key players" were ??

Craig White, Simon Jones, Tresco and Thorpe were missing from that third test, who would have played if fit- all four could have made a difference to that match and hence, the series. Jones may have been dropped at I dont remember- Caddick played that Headingly match. Inzamam has scored tons of runs in England in any case. The one non subcontinental country he likes. I have already said Drav overseas is better. But that one ton in Saf aside (which really IS a biggish deal in itself) im not sure he has done THAT much more than Inzamam. We all use scoring in andor agst Aus as the barometer right?? Would Inzy have scored loads vs Brad Williams, McGill etc...in Aus 2003...hell fckin yes. How many players can point to 17 (or whatever it is) centuries in matches won...his average is in matches won is (only marginally) more than RDs. RD is better- I said that before. But not by that much- Inzy is a class act.

[MundaPakistani]

Re: The Rahul Dravid VS Inzi-Ul-Haq

Yea Miandad was class' date=' a lot of people will say that he was easily PAK's greatest batsman but i only watched him play for 4-5 year hence i don?t give a genuine opinion. All I can say is that i rate Inzi higher than Saeed not because of pure batsman ship but because of Inzi?s longevity (Saeed only played 55 test matches). [/quote'] I have watched him fair bit, also have watched his earlier videos and have read a lot of autobiographies. A lot of bowlers including Hadlee, Lillee have confirmed he was extremely hard to bowl to. Coming from Lillee, the one that went physical on Miandad says a lot about the respect Miandad commanded from bowlers around the world.

Yea Lillie and co had great respect for Miandad and i believe he is one of the very few batsman( no more than 3 or 4) whose average never dropped below 50 and mind you he played in over 120 test matches. So going by that i guess it's fair to call him the greatest PAK's batsman ever.