King Tendulkar Posted March 22, 2008 Posted March 22, 2008 Flemming so over rated as a player and captain. Hyped up by the western press as some cricket great. To me very average player with a mediocre average of under 40. Always talked about as great batter and very elegant. To me bats like a robot with very limited range of shots. Also poor odi player. Never inspired me watching this robot bat! Only 9 tons in tests and only 8 in odis, mediocre! His captaincy was also so overrated. Got some silly tag as best skipper in world, no idea the basis of this often heard claim. Just cos he was percieved as having an average team which apparently he got the best out of. Mediocre record as skipper, if you ask me they have improved with vettori as captain, so not sure what all the hype about his captaining was. Always to me lacked imagination and was passive skipper with a lack of aggression and lack of killer instinct. His record is nothing great. Average captain! Clearly the goras loved bigging him up. Reminds a bit of Atherton whos batting was also very average and captaincy also poor. Yet hyped as good player, with great cricket brain. Maybe its the way they speak english which makes gora press and fellow players give them such undeserved kudos! Flemming was mediocre player and mediocre captain!
DomainK Posted March 22, 2008 Posted March 22, 2008 No doubt he is an average player. But I think deserves some credit for his captaincy. Less controversies, made the team play like a team, used his limited resources wisely.
cochise Posted March 22, 2008 Posted March 22, 2008 used his limited resources wisely Yes, I think this is foremostly why he got that tag as the best captain etc etc...still, the claim was a bit overblown. And definitely a good batsman, but nothing to shout about.
msb1991 Posted March 22, 2008 Posted March 22, 2008 He was a very good, but still overrated captain. He was a brilliant batsman though. Notice that away from the seamer friendly wickets of New Zealand, he averaged 45.92. New Zealand is a tough place to bat in.
cochise Posted March 22, 2008 Posted March 22, 2008 Ya...that's a good point. Noted and taken. However, NZ being his home turf mitigates against your point somewhat. Still, a valid observation and one that should be weighed in assessing him.
King Tendulkar Posted March 22, 2008 Author Posted March 22, 2008 He was a very good' date=' but still overrated captain. He was a brilliant batsman though. Notice that away from the seamer friendly wickets of New Zealand, he averaged 45.92. New Zealand is a tough place to bat in.[/quote'] Brilliant batsman??? No way, AVERAGE at best!
King Tendulkar Posted March 22, 2008 Author Posted March 22, 2008 Quite a few NZ players have better home averages then away averages! So just wiping away Flemmings mediocre record batting in NZ to claim he is a brilliant batsman, is simply ridiculous
msb1991 Posted March 22, 2008 Posted March 22, 2008 Quite a few NZ players have better home averages then away averages! So just wiping away Flemmings mediocre record batting in NZ to claim he is a brilliant batsman' date=' is simply ridiculous[/quote'] Who are these players? Not questioning, just curious.
King Tendulkar Posted March 22, 2008 Author Posted March 22, 2008 He averages in the 30s in India, England and NZ. And averages below 35 in Oz. His away record is boosted with average of over 100 in bangla. His record is clearly mediocre. He is a mediocre batter and mediocre captain. Despite what the western press hype machine says!
King Tendulkar Posted March 22, 2008 Author Posted March 22, 2008 Who are these players? Not questioning' date=' just curious.[/quote'] Styris and Taylor are examples of this
cochise Posted March 22, 2008 Posted March 22, 2008 Considering the weakness of his side and the situations he had to bat in as captain, that makes those averages just a little better than they appear. Better than mediocre anyway. He is good. Why are you so indisposed towards him dsr?
King Tendulkar Posted March 25, 2008 Author Posted March 25, 2008 He ends up with average of 40, well done:two_thumbs_up: Still just an average of just 40. He was surrounded by such rubbish batsman that he looked good compared to how cr#p his fellow kiwi batters have been over last decade. Just an average batsman and captain!
CC1981 Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 Brilliant captain, average batsman.....obviously, our 'gora-hater' chip-on-shoulder dsr can't really stomach that..... My order of captains, from 1990 onwards: 1. Mark Taylor 2. Hansie Cronje 3. Stephen Fleming 4. Alan Border 5. Arjuna Ranatunga 6. Steve Waugh 7. Michael Vaughan 8. Nasser Hussain 9. Saurav Ganguly 10. Wasim Akram.
Vignesh Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 Fleming is nothing but AVERAGE...................
King Tendulkar Posted March 25, 2008 Author Posted March 25, 2008 Brilliant captain, average batsman.....obviously, our 'gora-hater' chip-on-shoulder dsr can't really stomach that..... gora hater:hysterical:ridiculous:hysterical: One thing for certain is that you are the other extreme and a gora lover and discriminatory against your fellow brown people.
King Tendulkar Posted March 25, 2008 Author Posted March 25, 2008 You got termed a gora hater for standing up against racism and oppression of indians. Standing up against instutionalised racism means you are a gora hater according to CC!
CC1981 Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 You got termed a gora hater for standing up against racism and oppression of indians. That you view Indians to be victims of racism and opression by and large today is itself a racist propaganda and furthest from the truth. One thing for certain is that you are the other extreme and a gora lover and discriminatory against your fellow brown people. Show me ONE crticism i've made of brown people that isnt a fact, mate. I said that CA is far better run than BCCI...that is a fact...logically,it means that if administrators of CA are doing a better job than BCCI, they deserve the ICC admin's post, not some BCCI honcho. Furthermore, you accused me of being a gora-lover/brown hater, when i expose the sad realities of your culture back home, which, i am yet to find you point out the falsehood in. And the fact that you continuously bring in the race card shows me that YOU are a racist and insecure person, not me, since i do not bring in the gora/brown debate at the drop of a hat like you do. Ultimately, it simply boils down to the FACT that gora-societies today are far more developed (not just materialistically, but culturally, logically and most importantly, humanistically) than desi society and you simply cannot stand the fact that i expose that without any impunity.
Mr. Wicket Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 Brilliant captain, average batsman.....obviously, our 'gora-hater' chip-on-shoulder dsr can't really stomach that..... My order of captains, from 1990 onwards: 1. Mark Taylor 2. Hansie Cronje 3. Stephen Fleming 4. Alan Border 5. Arjuna Ranatunga 6. Steve Waugh 7. Michael Vaughan 8. Nasser Hussain 9. Saurav Ganguly 10. Wasim Akram. I'd have Border a lot lower, if this is 1990 onwards. His golden years as a captain were before that, with the WC win and the Ashes regained. By about 91, he began to struggle a bit more with the bat and didn't put the same time or thought into his captaincy.
King Tendulkar Posted March 25, 2008 Author Posted March 25, 2008 And the fact that you continuously bring in the race card shows me that YOU are a racist and insecure person, not me, since i do not bring in the gora/brown debate at the drop of a hat like you do. Ultimately, it simply boils down to the FACT that gora-societies today are far more developed (not just materialistically, but culturally, logically and most importantly, humanistically) than desi society and you simply cannot stand the fact that i expose that without any impunity. actually is you who continually bring in the race card. expose with impunity, WTF:haha:
Predator_05 Posted March 25, 2008 Posted March 25, 2008 Brilliant captain, average batsman.....obviously, our 'gora-hater' chip-on-shoulder dsr can't really stomach that..... My order of captains, from 1990 onwards: 1. Mark Taylor 2. Hansie Cronje 3. Stephen Fleming 4. Alan Border 5. Arjuna Ranatunga 6. Steve Waugh 7. Michael Vaughan 8. Nasser Hussain 9. Saurav Ganguly 10. Wasim Akram. Wow. You rated Fleming higher than two World Cup winning captains.
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