Baichung Bhutia Refuses to carry the Olympic Torch!

[Aditi]

Sport and politics dont go well with each other.

Much as we'd all like to think that, they are invariably linked. Another case in point - 1999 Sahara Cup Boycott

[Ram]

Much as we'd all like to think that, they are invariably linked. Another case in point - 1999 Sahara Cup Boycott

Yes, they are linked, many times. But most times, its not an individual expressing his/her own dissatisfaction over whats happening, but a country playing around with sporting events to send a message to another country, which should be avoided, in my opinion. The problem is, when we encourage such symbols of expression of dissent, many sportsman are tempted to manipulate it to suit their own purposes. Like how Andy Flower and Henry Olanga wore black arm-bands in a cricket match to protest ' the injustice meted out to white farmers'. It was clear that all they wanted was to win the sympathy of the British govt and what better way to do, than protest against Mugabe in an international cricket match. Andy Flower is now the England's team batting coach, Henry Olanga is now a resident in the UK. Enough said.

[Mr. Wicket]

The problem is, when we encourage such symbols of expression of dissent, many sportsman are tempted to manipulate it to suit their own purposes. Like how Andy Flower and Henry Olanga wore black arm-bands in a cricket match to protest ' the injustice meted out to white farmers'. It was clear that all they wanted was to win the sympathy of the British govt and what better way to do, than protest against Mugabe in an international cricket match. Andy Flower is now the England's team batting coach, Henry Olanga is now a resident in the UK. Enough said.

Have you been reading Mugabe's press? You obviously don't know any of the other background around those actions, the guts the calls took and the fact that Olonga had to flee right after for the sake of his life (hence why he's resident in the UK). That's one of the most ridiculous posts I've ever read here.

[Ram]

Have you been reading Mugabe's press? You obviously don't know any of the other background around those actions, the guts the calls took and the fact that Olonga had to flee right after for the sake of his life (hence why he's resident in the UK). That's one of the most ridiculous posts I've ever read here.

You, me or for that matter, ANYONE only know half of the story. So I think it would be wise for all of us to resist from pronouncing judgments on each other's knowledge of specific events. And I just speak from common sense, more than anything else. If Olanga was REALLY interested in protesting Mugabe's policies, he should have stayed back in Zim and fought it and not fled the country and taken residency in UK, of all countries. Just the sequence of events leaves a million unanswered questions. Olanga wears arm band ---> Mugabe issues threats --- > UK offers residency. Only an incredibly naive person will ever buy that. All over the world, 100s of social and political activists brave threats from their home govt to continue their struggle. My respect and wishes go out to them. I prefer not to extend the same courtesies to people who have fled, preferring the safe havens of foreign country. Not to say that Olanga was wrong in fleeing, but just wanted to clarify my position. And I aint specifically referring to Olanga here, but do you know how many of 'threat mails/calls' are fabricated, just to seek asylum in another country. All over the world, people ALWAYS either exaggerate or fake the threat posed to their life by the govt of that country so that the foreign country will accept their asylum petition. And to finish off, I aint no Mugabe supporter, nor am I his critic. I just have tendency to take the reportings of the British press with a pinch of salt. Even the BBC, one of the world's most fair news organizations, is unfailingly critical of Mugabe, and it makes me feel uncomfortably skeptical of their interests in Zim.

[CC1981]

What I DO have a problem with is, Bhaichung using the Olympics as a mouthpiece to popularize his propaganda.

I see you've conviniently ignored my post, so i will ask again- have you READ the Olympic charter ? Olympics, by its OWN definition and charter, defines itself as a sporting AND political event. It is the primier political event in sports and what is wrong in using politics in an event which DECLARES ITSELF as a political AND sporting event ? Not to mention, Olympics has a track record for serving as a political platform- first for Greek Cypriots, then Hitler's Nazi propaganda, then there is Soviet/US boycotts etc etc. Under such a track record, Baichung's action is less than a drop in the ocean of the political agenda of the Olympics.

He wouldnt do that, coz he knows hardly 1 or 2 newsman only will turn up for the press meet. Instead, he has chosen to hijack the Olympic agenda coz he knows this will create lots of headlines.

Precisely- if he held a press conference just to denounce China, nobody would show up. So why on earth would he do that ? What would be the reason behind doing that- there is no moral highground/low-ground here in doing what you are suggesting- only stupidity from someone who'd waste a press conference. This move created far more headlines and therefore, by default, is the justified one!! If you have a goal in mind ( in this case, turning heads against China), why would you do something that would be least effective and why wouldn't you do something that is the most effective ??

But he shouldnt have used a world-wide event to push his own agenda.

Again, why the bloody hell not ? Just what makes this worldwide event or any other worldwide event excempt from freedom of expression, especially when the thought expressed is political and this event itself is a political event ?? Your logic is inconsistent- because you are advocating a line of action that does not get results and there is no moral basis in it either.

But Bhaichung Bhutia the Indian footballer, has the responsibility to follow the instructions of his govt, which is to carry the torch.

Incorrect. The Indian constitution does NOT behoove us to take instructions from the government. As long as he is not breaking a law (which he most definitely isn't), Baichung can tell the govt to go f*ck itself. Your comment that 'he has the responsibility to follow the instructions of his govt' is a tacit declaration that government by DEFAULT is right and one's default position is to obey the government. Neither of which is true.

I know this sounds a bit stupid coz Bhutia couldnt possibly give a press-conference thrashing China on one hand and carry the torch on the other

That wouldn't just be stupid, that would be hypocritical because he would be criticising China on one hand and helping Chinese Olympics on the other. Sorry, that is the dumbest thing i've heard all day.

But why would he not use his stature as India's best footballer and criticize China ?

He just did by refusing to carry the torch!!

Most people, especially within the African union, think his moves are justified.

Then most people are justifying racism and discrimination.

Which is why I said, on most occassions, this sort of using sport as an instrument of expression of political and personal sentiments is biased and manipulated.

But it is well worth the trouble. Sports by itself is meaningless, it is just a bunch of people kicking a ball or whacking a ball with a stick or throwing a ball in a bin...If such trivial persuit can be used as a platform for social and political reform,i have absolutely zero problems with it.

If Olanga was REALLY interested in protesting Mugabe's policies, he should have stayed back in Zim and fought it and not fled the country and taken residency in UK, of all countries.

I take it back, THIS is the dumbest comment i've read all day. Consider this: Yoru government is racist and openly discriminating against a part of your country's population. You protest in a very subtle way- which is to wear an armband in front of the international media. The result is your government puts a death-mark on you. Your government is also an autocratic dictatorship, so they control ALL information inside their country and nomatter how much you yell yourself hoarse being the sports darling of your nation, not more than a few hundred people in your immediate vicinity will get the opportunity to hear what you have to say. In this circumstance, you'd stay back and still protest instead of fleeing ? If so, then you'd be a dead idiot, who didn't accomplish the objective.

. I prefer not to extend the same courtesies to people who have fled, preferring the safe havens of foreign country. Not to say that Olanga was wrong in fleeing, but just wanted to clarify my position.

Your position doesn't take into account the differing conditions in different nations where such things happen. When your govt OPENLY calls for your death, there is little impact you can have. The only sane thing to do then would be to follow the adage ' live today,fight tomorrow'.

[THX_1138]

You' date= me or for that matter, ANYONE only know half of the story. So I think it would be wise for all of us to resist from pronouncing judgments on each other's knowledge of specific events. And I just speak from common sense, more than anything else. If Olanga was REALLY interested in protesting Mugabe's policies, he should have stayed back in Zim and fought it and not fled the country and taken residency in UK, of all countries. Just the sequence of events leaves a million unanswered questions. Olanga wears arm band ---> Mugabe issues threats --- > UK offers residency. Only an incredibly naive person will ever buy that. All over the world, 100s of social and political activists brave threats from their home govt to continue their struggle. My respect and wishes go out to them. I prefer not to extend the same courtesies to people who have fled, preferring the safe havens of foreign country. Not to say that Olanga was wrong in fleeing, but just wanted to clarify my position. And I aint specifically referring to Olanga here, but do you know how many of 'threat mails/calls' are fabricated, just to seek asylum in another country. All over the world, people ALWAYS either exaggerate or fake the threat posed to their life by the govt of that country so that the foreign country will accept their asylum petition. And to finish off, I aint no Mugabe supporter, nor am I his critic. I just have tendency to take the reportings of the British press with a pinch of salt. Even the BBC, one of the world's most fair news organizations, is unfailingly critical of Mugabe, and it makes me feel uncomfortably skeptical of their interests in Zim.

whats this utter nonsense of "know only half the story"? ever bothered to hear the other half of the story of islamic fundamentalists? ever bothered to hear the other side of the story of the society of flat earth? or the other side of the story of a rapist? a serial killer? george w bush? you have to be editorial about these issues. injustice by any organization irrespective of what the oppressed stands for must be stopped. We are in a quagmire in kasmir since a democratically elected government chose to oppress a population demanding self determination, and china, a non democratically elected government is choosing to oppress a population of pacifist demanding self determination. as for zimbabwe, mugabe is attempting to reverse the years of colonial oppression with a new form of oppression, which is achieving little but destroying its local economy and thus rendering its own people (majority of who are already poor) into the deeper reccesss of poverty.

[Ram]

whats this utter nonsense of "know only half the story"? ever bothered to hear the other half of the story of islamic fundamentalists? ever bothered to hear the other side of the story of the society of flat earth? or the other side of the story of a rapist? a serial killer? george w bush?

I have plainly said none of us can comment, with any amount of authority, on specific events that we were not privy to. Evidently, I dont think any of us can claim to have insider information about what transpired in the Olonga saga. I just echoed those sentiments, that is all.

you have to be editorial about these issues. injustice by any organization irrespective of what the oppressed stands for must be stopped. We are in a quagmire in kasmir since a democratically elected government chose to oppress a population demanding self determination' date=' and china, a non democratically elected government is choosing to oppress a population of pacifist demanding self determination.[/quote'] Go read my post before commenting. I never said we musnt express sympathy or support for political or social movements. Every individual has the right to express moral and material support to ANY movement they choose to align with, I have absolutely no problems with that. What I merely said was , Sport must not be used as instrument of expression of such sentiments, mainly coz 9 out of 10 times, such symbolic gestures are manipulated to suit personal/govt agendas. Without understanding that, you have gone on with your "..... injustice by any organization irrespective of what the oppressed stands for must be stopped......" like as though I said China is fully justified in its actions in Tibet.

as for zimbabwe' date=' mugabe is attempting to reverse the years of colonial oppression with a new form of oppression, which is achieving little but destroying its local economy and thus rendering its own people (majority of who are already poor) into the deeper reccesss of poverty.[/quote'] Absolutely, no one here said he was a hero. He is driving his country to ruins and he will pay the price for it.

[Mr. Wicket]

I take it back, THIS is the dumbest comment i've read all day. Consider this: Yoru government is racist and openly discriminating against a part of your country's population. You protest in a very subtle way- which is to wear an armband in front of the international media. The result is your government puts a death-mark on you. Your government is also an autocratic dictatorship, so they control ALL information inside their country and nomatter how much you yell yourself hoarse being the sports darling of your nation, not more than a few hundred people in your immediate vicinity will get the opportunity to hear what you have to say. In this circumstance, you'd stay back and still protest instead of fleeing ? If so, then you'd be a dead idiot, who didn't accomplish the objective.

Agree with everything said above. Complete control over the media, so any protests from within the country could either be ignored, or oppressed by the military and police force - hence why activists were leaving the country so they could actually be heard. As far as these protestors go - I had a chance meeting with a few people related to them when last in South Africa in 05, and a not-so-chance meeting in London last spring. If you really think these people were just escaping to get South African/English residency, something is very wrong with you, and please pull your head out of the sand. Some of these people have been pursued by death squads targeting political activists that masquerade as police forces, others narrowly escaped torture and would be arrested and likely killed (or left to rot in a jail) if they ever set foot back in Zimbabwe. The idea that they should stay there and protest, or ought to be branded as people who just wanted sympathy and other countries' residency if they left is one of the most idiotic, uninformed bits of rubbish I've come across. Go head outside the Zimbabwean embassy in London the next time they're holding a vigil/protest there, and try telling that to those people's faces.

[Ram]

The idea that they should stay there and protest, or ought to be branded as people who just wanted sympathy and other countries' residency if they left is one of the most idiotic, uninformed bits of rubbish I've come across. Go head outside the Zimbabwean embassy in London the next time they're holding a vigil/protest there, and try telling that to those people's faces.

Are you trying to tell me that the 100s and 100s of pro-democracy activists, who are still in Zimbabwe, fighting the govt living underground are all idiots ? Are you trying to tell me the thousands of Palestinians, who still live in Gaza and the West Bank, fighting Israeli oppression are all fools ? All over the world, 1000s of political and social activists brave threats to life and living from the home regimes, and continue to wage their battles. Why didnt all they flee ? In your enthusiasm to defend Olonga, you have, surprisingly forgotten the vast numbers of pro-democracy, anti -Mugabe activists who are still in Zim. Well begun is only half done, If you have the courage to raise your voice against a dictatorial regime, you must also have the common sense to predict the consequences. Wearing a black arm band in a cricket match and fleeing in a few weeks time is not the most ideal course of action. Besides, I didnt claim EVERYONE who protest the actions of unfriendly regimes do it ONLY to gain sympathy of foreign activists. I only said its a very common occurrence for the so called protesters to fake the threats posed to 'em. Out of 10 asylum seekers, atleast a handful would have actually had absolutely nothing to do with the struggle and would have faked the threats posed to 'em so that they can flee to another country. Now, if you arent aware of this FACT, I can only marvel at your ignorance. For every Zimbabwean living in the London, who has passionate sentiments towards whats happening in home country, there will be another Zimbabwean, living in Bristol, who gives a damn about whats happening in his homeland and is just very glad he escaped out of the hell.

[Ram]

If you really think these people were just escaping to get South African/English residency, something is very wrong with you, and please pull your head out of the sand. Some of these people have been pursued by death squads targeting political activists that masquerade as police forces, others narrowly escaped torture and would be arrested and likely killed (or left to rot in a jail) if they ever set foot back in Zimbabwe.

Sure, who said the threat isnt there ? Still, that doesnt explain the people who are still there, fighting the actual battle. I'd prefer to pay more respects to them.