Honesty & Integrity - Still relevant in modern Corporate World??

[Lurker]

In a era where everyone, and I am not going to qualify that with "almost everyone", lies on their resume - claiming projects/task they have not done, working with tools they did not have access to, checking out FAQs on website before they take the interview, is honesty still relevant? In a era where companies are reluctant to spend money to train their employees, lest they move to green pastures later on. Instead they bring on Consultants who are then looked at as people who are making the client a fool and mooching money off them(that too by the hour). Companies look at their employees as "resource"(thanks IT for getting that in) and like any resource the employees are expendable. In the era where interviews are fast becoming a "lie-detector test". You have less questions about what you bring to the project, if you have a sense of humour and can boost the team, are you single player or team-oriented, and more about how much you have lied and how the egos can be shattered. Interviewees cry that if they dont beef up their resume, and choose to be honest, their resume will not even make to the next stage. Interviewers cry that if they dont ask for maximum they will never even get half of what they desire as everyone is lying on their resume anyway. Question is - Is Honesty & Integrity still relevant in the Corporate World? Can interviewees choose to write exactly what they have done and in the interview show how they can learn new technology as well?? Or is it all gone and not coming back? xxxx

[fineleg]

Excellent thread Lurker. I dont know the answer to your question.

Can interviewees choose to write exactly what they have done and in the interview show how they can learn new technology as well??

When was the last time people remember things were like the above? (Maybe for new college hires, that may still be true) - but as far as non-college grads are concerned, many companies seem to be in "Fast Food" mode where they want people with "specific skills" rather than take individuals with POTENTIAL and invest in them for the long haul. Comments?

[triam]

I think that is the niche some company will fill in the future, any IT project that companies do is not really rocket science, the clients know the game and they are playing along since they dont have much choice, it is just choose the right cheat currently But, if one company breaks the mold and its motto is "Integrity and honesty" I think it can easily become the industry leader. This is from companies perspective. From an individual perspective, I feel (people may burn me over the coals for this) but from my limited exposure, I think it is the desi culture of doing whatever it takes to get it done, is one of the main reasons that we see this, I think this may be because our culture does not really teach us moral absolutes, rather does moral relatives. Just like how a lot of desi grad students take plagiarism so lightly and pay the price for it, lying in the resumes is just another facet here. And to go back to the OP i think there is definitely place for honesty and integrity in the current environment.

[kumble_rocks]

In a era where everyone, and I am not going to qualify that with "almost everyone", lies on their resume - claiming projects/task they have not done, working with tools they did not have access to, checking out FAQs on website before they take the interview, is honesty still relevant? In a era where companies are reluctant to spend money to train their employees, lest they move to green pastures later on. Instead they bring on Consultants who are then looked at as people who are making the client a fool and mooching money off them(that too by the hour). Companies look at their employees as "resource"(thanks IT for getting that in) and like any resource the employees are expendable. In the era where interviews are fast becoming a "lie-detector test". You have less questions about what you bring to the project, if you have a sense of humour and can boost the team, are you single player or team-oriented, and more about how much you have lied and how the egos can be shattered. Interviewees cry that if they dont beef up their resume, and choose to be honest, their resume will not even make to the next stage. Interviewers cry that if they dont ask for maximum they will never even get half of what they desire as everyone is lying on their resume anyway. Question is - Is Honesty & Integrity still relevant in the Corporate World? Can interviewees choose to write exactly what they have done and in the interview show how they can learn new technology as well?? Or is it all gone and not coming back? xxxx

Good post , Lurker . Having been very busy lately , I am have refrained from posting much ,but this thread got my attention.Now, Having been at both ends of the spectrum ,that is, as a interviewer and interviewee and speaking from experience , I will take a shot at answering your question which is . Question is - Is Honesty & Integrity still relevant in the Corporate World? Can interviewees choose to write exactly what they have done and in the interview show how they can learn new technology as well?? Or is it all gone and not coming back? Is it a valid beef for Interviewees when they claim that if they don’t rig their resume the will not make the cut , the answer would be a definite “yesâ€. Also, In my humble opinion and having worn both the hats , there is nothing wrong in rigging your resume if you can deliver honestly on the skill sets that you proclaim to possess in your resume. In other words of you can “walk the walk†, then there is nothing wrong in “talking the talk “ vis-a-vis your resume. After all if you don’t deliver , the company has no obligation to retain your services. Also, many of the recruiting managers do not possess the necessary technical background and applicant’s resume will not make it through their filter which generally happens to be the first stage , if your resume it is not rigged up to their standards. And their standards generally would be a crude high level filter which would go like “how many years IT experience , how many years specific skill experience yada yada yada†….And hence, many a times , the interviewee is forced to rig up his or her resume to pass the first stage. BTW , I have been conducting lot of interviews lately and it’s not even funny anymore the kind of stuff people write in their resume . Their was this guy who actually copied my own resume verbatim except for changing names. Looks like he get it from a friend of a friend of a friend …. And I was his interviewer and actually passed him because I could gauge that he could get the job done .

[Lurker]

many companies seem to be in "Fast Food" mode where they want people with "specific skills" rather than take individuals with POTENTIAL and invest in them for the long haul.

The worrying factor is that trend is not going to change anytime soon. As a Business Intelligence professional most of the time I end up creating information for the Companies that basically tells them how they are doing per Month and per Quarter. I mention that because I have seen it increasingly how Per Year reports have lost their importance. Today companies hire-and-fire based on Quarterly Performances, often Monthly. This is also driven by immense pressure from Wall Street so anytime a Quarter projection falls short you can expect companies to do some lay-offs to show Wall Street they are doing something about it. What this means is not many companies would be interested in long-term scenarion and hence would push for getting "trained" people, even if they come at a high price, rather than training their own people that understand the business very well. xxx

[Lurker]

From an individual perspective, I feel (people may burn me over the coals for this) but from my limited exposure, I think it is the desi culture of doing whatever it takes to get it done, is one of the main reasons that we see this, I think this may be because our culture does not really teach us moral absolutes, rather does moral relatives. Just like how a lot of desi grad students take plagiarism so lightly and pay the price for it, lying in the resumes is just another facet here.

That argument certainly has its merit Triam. Indians dont fall short to any other group when it comes to "beefing" up their resume. In fact I would not be surprised if Indians have actually led the way here. Part of the reason is very understandable, everyone wants to be on a project and make money. What goes without saying though is how it hurts the overall picture. I am sure most of us can attest to the fact that we are generally happy if our interviewer is a non-desi. A non-desi, even if he is very technical, will not ask you - why do you used Hash Joins inside a Subquery. He will generally ask you the concepts, what you have done, how comfortable you are etc etc. A very subtle, but an oft observation, is how a non-desi will tell you what the company does, who are the clients, sponsors of the projects and what he expects the newbie to deliver. Indian interviewer will straight away go from - Tell me about yourself - to - So how did you automate Unix scipt in last assignment. Exceptions are there and I am sure many Indians are as good, or better, than their non-desi counterparts.

[Lurker]

Also, In my humble opinion and having worn both the hats , there is nothing wrong in rigging your resume if you can deliver honestly on the skill sets that you proclaim to possess in your resume. In other words of you can “walk the walk†, then there is nothing wrong in “talking the talk “ vis-a-vis your resume. After all if you don’t deliver , the company has no obligation to retain your services. Also, many of the recruiting managers do not possess the necessary technical background and applicant’s resume will not make it through their filter which generally happens to be the first stage , if your resume it is not rigged up to their standards. And their standards generally would be a crude high level filter which would go like “how many years IT experience , how many years specific skill experience yada yada yada†….And hence, many a times , the interviewee is forced to rig up his or her resume to pass the first stage.

Fair point there KR. I definitely understand the need of "beefing" up your resume else it would not even land at the table. And surely we can not blame a man for taking a chance only to be heard. What bothers me though is how the stakes are rising ever so slowly, but surely. It is no more a case of you knowing say 4 SAP tools out of possible 10 and lieing about 1 thus showing you know 5 out of possible 10. Today it wont be surprising be people show they know 7 or more. As difficult as it is, what it also ensures is that people dont worry about the client itself. As in if I am taking an interview for a company, say GE Appliances, I wont do any background on what that company does, what have I done in terms of business solutions that can help the clients etc etc. It goes straight on technical. My personal experience is that even if you have best technical expertise it is useless if you dont understand the business.

BTW , I have been conducting lot of interviews lately and it’s not even funny anymore the kind of stuff people write in their resume . Their was this guy who actually copied my own resume verbatim except for changing names. Looks like he get it from a friend of a friend of a friend …. And I was his interviewer and actually passed him because I could gauge that he could get the job done .

:haha:

[fineleg]

KR, Helluva story there. You see your own version of the doc with the name changed :D

[fineleg]

As difficult as it is, what it also ensures is that people dont worry about the client itself. As in if I am taking an interview for a company, say GE Appliances, I wont do any background on what that company does, what have I done in terms of business solutions that can help the clients etc etc. It goes straight on technical. My personal experience is that even if you have best technical expertise it is useless if you dont understand the business.

Very good point Lurker. Interview has to be balanced between business, concepts and some details. Should not all be diving into arcane details without the big picture.

[kumble_rocks]

KR, Helluva story there. You see your own version of the doc with the name changed :D

Yep ! I actually was teaching in a desi consulting firm during weekends and owner wanted my resume for reference .Looks like he may be the source for this plagiarism....

[fineleg]

"for reference" he said, eh? :D

[sandtest]

Interesting incident KR saab!!...Let's all start butterring KR Saar, shayad naklee CV pesh kerke koi kaam-dhandhaa gareeb-gurbaa logo ko bhi miley :D Waise, talking of exaggerated CV, I have no clue of IT-Vity, But I can say with certain confidence that it rarely works in infrastructure/construction/manufacturing for your core workforce. HR asked me to interview a Welder in absence of dept. manager ...the requirement was for an Argon welder (it's different than normal arc welding). This man perhaps from Haryana, claimed to be working for ONGC subcontractor as Argon welder since past 8 years in his Bio data. To confimrm he attached ONGC's approved Argon Welder certificate. He got selected...Later when he was put on the shopfloor,turned out to be an arc welder and eventually got evicted. HR guy was bewildered looking at his CV after that :haha:

[Guest dada_rocks]

You can't fudge resume in my field.. They ask you bloody everything all the journal papers you have publsihed they will go there and look at it.. All the patents granted ..Your thesis details.. And then the skillset demanded is so to the detail that if u are lying u will be caught within minutes in the interview.... And yes I am with KR on this if u can walk the talk lie to your hearts content. I will go ahead and even give 15 days ramp-up time.. In most of the cases in IT industry guys should pick it up it's no rocket science you see.

[fineleg]

You can't fudge resume in my field.. They ask you bloody everything all the journal papers you have publsihed they will go there and look at it.. All the patents granted ..Your thesis details.. And then the skillset demanded is so to the detail that if u are lying u will be caught within minutes in the interview.... And yes I am with KR on this if u can walk the talk lie to your hearts content. I will go ahead and even give 15 days ramp-up time.. In most of the cases in IT industry guys should pick it up it's no rocket science you see.

What field is that you are mentioning where they go and re-verify all published papers?

[Guest dada_rocks]

Any hardcore research centre would do that..

[Guest dada_rocks]

Btw what the fheck is reference if not institutionalized "Pairavi" If you can't judge a guy in 8 or so hours of interview then there is sthg wrong with the interviewer or the skillset you are looking for is not really a skill .. Come on what kind of freaking skill is that where anyone could lie and get away with it even in 8 hours of grilling....

[fineleg]

DR, Some companies do the 8 hours of grilling. Some dont and want to take shortcuts via reference. Either way, companies may feel that "skill" can be evaluated by interview, but soft-skills may need to be validated via references.