Indian Embassy in Kabul Attacked -- ISI-Paki involvement is obvious

[sandtest]

So far more than 40 people have been killed and that includes our defence attache in Kabul. Attack on such high profile target which directly affects our intelligence gathering and counter-terror efforts clearly indicate that ISI and Paki army are using Taliban as a cover to reduce Indian presence in Afghanistan and bring it back to the level of those days when Taliban was ruling Afghanistan. One must notice that Pakistan has hegemonic interests in Afghanistan, while India's relation with Afghanistan are totally different. A look at history tells that Afghanistan was always under Indian influence till 1980, when Taliban took over. Indian presence in Afghanistan is totally different than say USA presence or NATO presence. Afghanistan is in our neighborhood. Any extremism/ radicalism or foreign power play will directly affects us. Therefore, Indian government should not be cowed down by this. Paki ISI exactly wants to achieve this goal so that Indian presence is reduced among Afghanistan's new Karzai government. If our puppet PM Manmohan has enough balls then he must increase the number of dimplomats and defence attaches in Afghanistan and demand USA that Indian embassy will be protected by Indian intelligence. Don't expect anything from USA here, they have their own interest and keep playing good-cop bad cop game. If Talibanis regain influence in Afghanistan, we will be immediate loosers and Pakis will be the net gainers. Remember aircrafts hijacked by Paki support and brough to Kandahar. India must demand USA to allow her to deploy it's own regiment near Indian embassy areas with full deployment of anti-missile batteries and radar/radio surviellance. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080707/ap_on_re_as/afghan_explosion

[Guest dada_rocks]

Why did they have such a lackluster security.. cordon off all the roads leading to embassy at least 500 metres from the embassy..

[Lurker]

Don't expect anything from USA here, they have their own interest and keep playing good-cop bad cop game.

Expect what from USA??? They are on the run themselves! To every attack on Indians, you can find 100 more attacks on American/British troops. So much so that America has to hit inside Pakistan, and still gets hit every other day. So much so for American "strategy" and "policies". India should have its own forces to defend its embassies. That is simply a given. Every embassy is defended by its own troops. However the problem is that Afganistan is basically lawless. And while Indian troops would be able to defend an attack with terrorists in a face to face battle what are they gonna do if their is a mortar launch from say 1 km away?? You have to depend on the Intelligence and we dont have any. This is where we will have to work with USA whether you like it or not. Pakistani angle is quite obvious and everyone, including Pakistanis, know about it. There really is nothing new here.

[Ram]

This is really a huge occurence, given how embarassing it is for the Afghan govt. Any attack on a foreign govt's embassy always raises a lot of question marks about that home govt's ability to provide security because, if they show themsleves to be incapable of providing security to foriegn diplmatic personnel, then how in the world can they guarentee security to the normal civilians. I dont know how long the rampant support and sheltering of Taleban elements can continue, inside Pakistan. Hamid Karzai has gotten really vocieferous with his allegations of the Taleban getting support from Pakistan. In fact, in a recent interview, he even threatened to send Afghan forces across the border, into Pakistan, if the Pakistani govt doesnt do enough to control the militants there. The taleban has been steadily gaining ground. Last month was the single most deadliest month for the coalition forces, who suffered maximum casualties, since the invasion in 2002. How long will the West put up with this? Something's gotto give somewhere. On a sidenote, I can easily envisage the possiblity of such an attack happening on any American Consulate in India ( IIRC, there's already been an attack on the American Embassy in Kolkata). I can personally vouch that when I applied for Visa in Chennai, I had to wait in a long queue, outside the walls of the consulate itself, in the side-walk. In june-july, I bet that early morning queues may top even 500 people. I fear to think what can potentially happen.

[THX_1138]

do we not deploy troops at our embassies? indeed an ISI connection is blatant, considering that Pakistan has for some time alleged that we use our afghani embassies, especially those in the southern towns of jalalabad and mazar-e-sharif to orchestrate insurgencies in the baloch sector (an unsubstantiated and baseless accusation). but i am quite certain that they are using the embassy for eavesdropping on pakistan, a common practice though... nonetheless, they need to deploy a small rapid action contingent and disaster assistance teams with medivac on staff to evacuvate casualties to india at the earliest, just as united states moves their casualties to their battlefield hospital in germany.

[Guest dada_rocks]

every embassy in every country gets used for intellgeince gathering.. can vouch for this because phupha happens to be in RAW and he keeps getting posted as a sundry embassy official from pakistan to france to where not.....

[THX_1138]

every embassy in every country gets used for intellgeince gathering.. can vouch for this because phupha happens to be in RAW and he keeps getting posted as a sundry embassy official from pakistan to france to where not.....

common knowledge... but most embassies dont get rammed into with a truck loaded with explosives and a dumb fool behind the wheel who thinks that somehow killing non combatants and civilians will set him up with 72 beyatches...

[Kriterion]

Don't expect anything from USA here, they have their own interest and keep playing good-cop bad cop game.

as a born and raised american, i find this statement to be rabidly anti-american and urge the mods from this kind of thing. is american supposed to cater to the interests of every nation but herself?

[Lurker]

as a born and raised american, i find this statement to be rabidly anti-american and urge the mods from this kind of thing. is american supposed to cater to the interests of every nation but herself?

Policywise every country, including America, is supposed to do the right moralistic thing, and NOT follow "interests". If you are indeed a born and raised American I am sure you would know better than most of non-Americans here how chasing "American interests" in last few decades has actually adversly affected America standing in the world. As for that statement I dont find anything rabidly anti-American about it. It is simple fact - America chases its interests ahead of what is morally correct and often in the process makes a region a worse place, Afganistan and Iraq are two current, and excellent, examples. xxx

[THX_1138]

as a born and raised american, i find this statement to be rabidly anti-american and urge the mods from this kind of thing. is american supposed to cater to the interests of every nation but herself?

ignore the jingoistic, anti "american" vituperations...

[Kriterion]

Policywise every country, including America, is supposed to do the right moralistic thing, and NOT follow "interests". If you are indeed a born and raised American I am sure you would know better than most of non-Americans here how chasing "American interests" in last few decades has actually adversly affected America standing in the world. As for that statement I dont find anything rabidly anti-American about it. It is simple fact - America chases its interests ahead of what is morally correct and often in the process makes a region a worse place, Afganistan and Iraq are two current, and excellent, examples. xxx

i was being sarcastic, since sandtest was sounding like the very people he usually ridicules. and of course there are two sides to the coin. no doubt iraq and afghanistan are blunders which are exacerbating the situation, but the current economic crises really couldn't be avoided, IMO. its not a policy issue, its not a democrat or republican issue. its simply the law of history...you can't be in paradise for ever. sure some horrible policies were made and followed, but even with perfect shot calling, we'd be in more or less the same mess we're in now. gay marriage and abortion have very little to do with the downturn in the USA's fortune, for better or for worse.

[Lurker]

its not a policy issue' date= its not a democrat or republican issue. its simply the law of history...you can't be in paradise for ever. sure some horrible policies were made and followed, but even with perfect shot calling, we'd be in more or less the same mess we're in now. gay marriage and abortion have very little to do with the downturn in the USA's fortune, for better or for worse.

You know Kriterion I do think its a policy issue. The way I look at is this. The fall of USA as the world's economic power has also coincided with these policies. Take for example the two wars. Afganistan war one can understand(and indeed the entire world supported US) but Iraq war was totally un-neccessary. As a result what has happened is USA has lost trillions in resources, lot of human lives and perhaps most importantly the time. In the last decade when China and India has emerged(more so China) as strong competitors, instead of using trillions of dollars, and a decade of time as such, to boost its internal industries USA has chose to keep discussing every single day about merits and demerits of Iraq war. And while people can disagree on whether US should pull out of Iraq today they will all agree that Iraq war eventually did not win them anything!!

[Kriterion]

You know Kriterion I do think its a policy issue. The way I look at is this. The fall of USA as the world's economic power has also coincided with these policies. Take for example the two wars. Afganistan war one can understand(and indeed the entire world supported US) but Iraq war was totally un-neccessary. As a result what has happened is USA has lost trillions in resources' date=' lot of human lives and perhaps most importantly the time. In the last decade when China and India has emerged(more so China) as strong competitors, instead of using trillions of dollars, and a decade of time as such, to boost its internal industries USA has chose to keep discussing every single day about merits and demerits of Iraq war. And while people can disagree on whether US should pull out of Iraq today they will all agree that Iraq war eventually did not win them anything!![/quote'] one of chief reasons for the economic crisis is exactly as you stated. the rise of china and india, a good 2.5 billion people nearly half the world's total population. that rise is not over yet. now i know a lot of things, but economics is not one of them. however, in my limited understanding, the price of crude oil is essential. this is because nearly every sector of the economy relies on oil in some way shape or form. heating, transportation, etc. the increased demand that india and chine are putting on the world oil market has driven prices up from $30 per barrell to 140 in no time. of course, the price goes up for indian and chinese consumers as well, which has actually slowed their growth. but as fareed zakaria has said, the rest of the world is rising and while american won't be poor anytime soon, they won't be "rich" much longer, if at all. of course i disagree with the wars on moralist and practical reasons, but i don't they are impacting us so much. at least not in the immediate present. the wars are being funded by the chinese basically. which means 30 years from now, when those principles + interest will be due - several trillion dollars worth, we'll be screwed. but the wars have little to do with the present economic situation.

[Lurker]

of course i disagree with the wars on moralist and practical reasons' date=' [b']but i don't they are impacting us so much. at least not in the immediate present. the wars are being funded by the chinese basically. which means 30 years from now, when those principles + interest will be due - several trillion dollars worth, we'll be screwed. but the wars have little to do with the present economic situation.

I wouldnt say the war is affecting US economy either. To give an example, one of the key components that is hurting USA's economy right now is the collapse of Housing Industry. This area has been heavily affected by the speculators in past decade. In Phoenix, AZ area(where I reside) the price of housing has doubled,in certain cases tripled in less than 5 years. And so obviously the only way after the peak was downwards. No wonder then that Housing Market in Phoenix is currently the worst in the nation. But in a way it will also be good for everyone as price comes down and housing becomes more affordable. Point being its not Iraq war but other aspects of Economics that have caused the mini reccesion. Your point about Chinese loans to fund Iraqi war runs similar to the Credit Industry. People(in this case US) end up buying stuff(in this case Iraq war) which does not give them any return and worse make them fall under credit fiasco. This is one key reason why USA is having issues. It no longer leads the world in any industry other than Military(Zakaria mentions it in his book) and I have to wonder if the situation would have been inherently different had USA borrowed money from China and put it for improving Technology/Roads/Education/Health Service for its citizens. xxx

[Kriterion]

I wouldnt say the war is affecting US economy either. To give an example, one of the key components that is hurting USA's economy right now is the collapse of Housing Industry. This area has been heavily affected by the speculators in past decade. In Phoenix, AZ area(where I reside) the price of housing has doubled,in certain cases tripled in less than 5 years. And so obviously the only way after the peak was downwards. No wonder then that Housing Market in Phoenix is currently the worst in the nation. But in a way it will also be good for everyone as price comes down and housing becomes more affordable. Point being its not Iraq war but other aspects of Economics that have caused the mini reccesion. Your point about Chinese loans to fund Iraqi war runs similar to the Credit Industry. People(in this case US) end up buying stuff(in this case Iraq war) which does not give them any return and worse make them fall under credit fiasco. This is one key reason why USA is having issues. It no longer leads the world in any industry other than Military(Zakaria mentions it in his book) and I have to wonder if the situation would have been inherently different had USA borrowed money from China and put it for improving Technology/Roads/Education/Health Service for its citizens. xxx

can't disagree with that. yes, the housing bubble has popped and a lot of people can't pay their mortgages. on the other hand, where i reside, Nashville TN, there is quite a lot of economic growth all around. its actually pretty phenomenol. you forget that the US is in a recession.

[Lurker]

can't disagree with that. yes, the housing bubble has popped and a lot of people can't pay their mortgages. on the other hand, where i reside, Nashville TN, there is quite a lot of economic growth all around. its actually pretty phenomenol. you forget that the US is in a recession.

lol...I may move to Nashville, TN. It is a big maybe at this time(say 10-20%) but it is almost coincidental that you happen to hail from Nashville. Actually I am happy to see TN grow. I lived in Little Rock, AR and greatly appreciated life in AR and TN. Had it not been work related I wouldnt have moved out of there. Medium size towns(Memphis, Nashville, LR etc) with all the big town facilities and little hassles(traffic, high cost of living etc) of big towns.

[Guest dada_rocks]

as a born and raised american, i find this statement to be rabidly anti-american and urge the mods from this kind of thing. is american supposed to cater to the interests of every nation but herself?

Truth is bitter but that doesn;t mean one shoudl resort to lies..Just take Talilban it's american baby and suddenly world is being fed taliban is evil just because it doesn't gell well in their scheme of things..That being said I don't dwell in past if today India can gain sthg by american stand we should go for it..

[sandtest]

as a born and raised american, i find this statement to be rabidly anti-american and urge the mods from this kind of thing. is american supposed to cater to the interests of every nation but herself?

I missed your post. Listen, I am not against America at all. But unlike you, I am born and raised in INDIA, so my concerns will reflect only India's interest, sorry if I hurt your American Nationalism even though if you were sarcastic. That said, my post was more because of the anger due to death of an Indian defense attache who was at Brigadier level. Mr. Mehta who got killed in Kabul bombing was the main person gathering intelligence regarding ISI activities and Islamist attacks inside India supported from Pakistan. Brig. Mehta are the people because of whom we Indians are able to travel safely in local trains and sleep in night. Loss of such persons means a lot to us Indians. If there is one attack in US Embassy, America bombs hell out of it's preparators and rightly so!! So why deny India that right??...we are the victims of Islmic terror more than anyone in world. And my anger was justified here since long back USA denied India a seperate and independent military Command in Afghanistan.

[sandtest]

To protect her interests and lives of citizens, India should put forward a proposal to US to allow a full military base for India in Afghanistan, perhaps an squadron of Su-30MKIs and some Helis for reconnaissance operations would be enough.

[sandtest]

India should have its own forces to defend its embassies. That is simply a given. Every embassy is defended by its own troops. However the problem is that Afganistan is basically lawless. And while Indian troops would be able to defend an attack with terrorists in a face to face battle what are they gonna do if their is a mortar launch from say 1 km away?? You have to depend on the Intelligence and we dont have any. This is where we will have to work with USA whether you like it or not. Pakistani angle is quite obvious and everyone, including Pakistanis, know about it. There really is nothing new here.

Actually, that's the reason why I said in OP that India should propose with USA a full independent command of Indian military in Afghanistan and that includes radar/surveillance gadgets. technology has progressed in arms industry as well, Indian army already has acquired something called WLRs (Weapons locating radars) of Israeli make, for use in mountain warfare. If India is allowed full military command near it's embassies/consulates in Afghanistn, there will be no way a Jeehadi can attack with truck load of bombs in a suicide mission, they will be detected kilometers away. Also interesting thing is that, immediately after blasts US military personnels cordoned off the area and Indian intelligence personals were not allowed to carry out immediate survey, which puts a lot of doubts here.