Some thoughts on SL tour selection and test matches

[vadodaravictor]

Players certainly need some break. I feel that amount of cricket played by Indian players is ridiculous. Gone are the days when I used to long for India playing in an ODI. These days, every 10 day or so, I see India playing an ODI. Though it keeps me awake at work (following scorecard on cricinfo:winky:), but I can understand fatigue players might go through.

[fineleg]

Only tests. He's the captain of the ODI team for God's sake. He cant pull out of that.

are you stupid?

are you? You are missing the point that MSD considers a Test series as less important than IPL. in otherwords, MSD "chose" to put the Test series on the backburner and he chose IPL over Tests (not IPL and Tests, but IPL over Tests). I say he chose - coz he knew this burnout will happen - it is INEVITABLE if he played IPL and ODIs - all in this span. He knew it could screw the Test chance in SL, but said screw it, if it happens it happens and chose IPL (while carrying niggles *all through* IPL).

[theguyinallblue]

Apart from reaffirming the dangers of burnout, Dhoni's decision raises several questions. Is it an indicator of players' new priorities? Is there too much of a disparity between the rewards on offer for Twenty20 and Test cricket? Do cricketers need to start choosing which of the three formats they want to concentrate on? Shouldn't a Test series get precedence over a Future Cup in Madagascar? Dhoni might have opened a Pandora's box but he will be relieved that, for a few weeks at least, he won't need to live out of suitcases.

i have always said that..a cricketers life is for 10 years on an avg..and Max 15 years... and in these years..a player has to earn his bread..make his life secure and also if talent permits write his name in the record books and history books... But..such is the disparity between the test and ODI or 20-20 games in terms of Money that players will take notice of it... players like Yuvi..who had sheet load of money...has made a mark in the game of ODIs and 20-20...and choose to give his body some rest and choose to play few test matches here and there... and someone like Kallis...who has made his name in test cricket....can choose to play in 20-20 and earn few more millions...and rest his body in next upcoming test series... i think what will happen is....if a new player is coming on the scene..he will try to play as many games of cricket..as possible....will try to settle his place in the team...and earn millions of $$$..in 5-7 years... will make a mark in test cricket...and as he approaches his end..will plunge in to 20-20 to earn few extra millions at the cost of Test matches... as it may happen...many avg test players...might retire early so that they can play 2-3 seasons of 20-20 either in IPL, or ICL or stanfords etc..

[Dhondy]

Shwetabh's post won't be appreciated today. People will wake up and realise what he is saying when Kartick drops vital catches in the Test series, or capitulates with the bat, with India fighting for survival in the series opener, as they did at Lords last year, when Dhoni pulled them back from the brink. His form as keeper has been shocking this last year, whenever he's had the opportunity to don gloves, and it's quite clear that his keeping skills have shrivelled beyond recognition. Those things don't come back in a fortnight, you know. It's just so amusing to see the grief reactions to an ODI final loss in another stupid tournament. The key to realising Shwetabh's premise is that those kinds of losses don't even register on his radar. Yet, a Test series loss will lead to not just days, but weeks of depression. It's a month and season changing experience. Those of you who are very young and weaned on a diet of ODI & 20-20, will never understand this reaction. In Shwetabh's book, in my book, you simply don't skip a Test series unless you are dying or incapacitated. It's the ultimate honour, the ultimate challenge, the greatest assignment. So Dhoni is ODI captain? So what? What crumbs of comfort would you guys salvage if India lost the Test series because of Kartick's bloopers, but edged the ODI series? It's the equivalent of given a candy to suck after being mugged in a dark alley. If Dhoni felt exhausted after the Test series, he should have pulled out of the cash cow ODIs and let somebody else skipper the side. Nobody else will remember those 5 days of postscript following the Test series, but a series loss will reverberate for years to come in the tortured consciousness of aficionados like Shwetabh. Fifteen days of blood and sweat traded for five days of fun and games. Being the great player that Dhoni is, he will forever look back on this decision, and wonder what if. You lot are different animals, you.

[Guest Hiten.]

are you? You are missing the point that MSD considers a Test series as less important than IPL. in otherwords, MSD "chose" to put the Test series on the backburner and he chose IPL over Tests (not IPL and Tests, but IPL over Tests). I say he chose - coz he knew this burnout will happen - it is INEVITABLE if he played IPL and ODIs - all in this span. He knew it could screw the Test chance in SL, but said screw it, if it happens it happens and chose IPL (while carrying niggles *all through* IPL).

Why do you have to be so god damn speculative every time an Indian player does something that is different from your views ? I don't get why are people vouching for Dhoni in tests ? What exactly has he done (in tests) for you guys to be so supportive of him participating in test matches ? Dhoni opts out of test series, I say good riddance (maybe for a while). His batting was completely below average in whatever test matches he has played. If dhoni deserves a better run then so does Yuvraj.

[The Outsider]

Ok Shwetabh, if we go by your thoughts, then tell us one thing. Did you agree that Dhoni badly needed rest since CB series? If yes, then which series should he have opted out from--in your opinion? Or did you want him to get fatigued and then break down finally to be ruled out from all form of cricket for say 4 months? Ok. here an article which relates to your thoughts, but if you want to discuss, I'm ready.

Let's clear up one thing first - Dhoni is NOT injured in anyway as far as we know. His keeping, batting, running between the wickets - nothing was affected by any injury in the latest two series. He is at least 95% fit as per any reports which have been out there or our eyewitness accounts and yet has chosen to withdraw from the tour. Remember, he played part of IPL with an injury probably because he was getting paid a few hundred thousand dollars for a 3 hour appearance. If it wasn't about the money and it was about test cricket and country etc. Dhoni being completely fit as of today would and should have played the test series and ideally rested himself from the ODI series to follow(and still had one full month before the CT, which BTW is not even a certainty as of now). Also, in that ODI series Tendulkar would be available and the argument that there is no senior does not work. And if seniors are so important, Yuvraj is one and Ganguly and Dravid can be called back as well. But Dhoni does not want to risk exerting his body for 18 days in the heat of Sri Lanka when the downside is that a possible injury can prevent him from captaining in the CT and later prevent him from taking part in the obscene money spinner, Champions League. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with his decision. Everyone needs to make money and for some more is always better and it cannot be held against them but please don't go on saying as if Dhoni NEEDED the rest - he did not. Cricket is game of heroes like Marshall who have bowled in a sling and Kumble with a strapped up jaw. Imran played the '92 WC with pain killers to lead the triumph. They needed the rest more than Dhoni but chose to put international cricket at it's premium position. Cricket is full of so many heroic feats that Dhoni's NEED for rest doesn't even come close to them. Just admit it, he likes the money and doesn't want to take any chances losing it - nothing inherently wrong with it.

[MundaPakistani]

I am surprised that some of you are surprised by this. As i said many months ago that Modi and Stanford will take test cricket to an innings defeat and this was just their 1st vicitim MS Dhoni- b Modi 0

[The Outsider]

don't get why are people vouching for Dhoni in tests ? What exactly has he done (in tests) for you guys to be so supportive of him participating in test matches ? Dhoni opts out of test series, I say good riddance (maybe for a while). His batting was completely below average in whatever test matches he has played.

I can't even fathom how people are talking of Dhoni's batting. Firstly, he is a decent batsman specially in the subcontinent anyways, but primarily he is a WICKETKEEPER. As Dhondy pointed out above this very front page message board and match thread will be laden with abuses on Karthik or Patel if they drop something. That will drive home the importance of a wicketkeeper. I can't believe how easily people have forgotten the grief Parthiv gave an entire country of fans series after series as we kept slipping and Kumble started tearing his hair. How can Karthik's abysmal keeping in his last test be forgotten so easily. In a batting line up of Sehwag, Dravid, Tendulkar, Ganguly, and Laxman, a wicketkeeper's batting role is marginal anyways.

[Desi Cartman]

Interesting post Shewtabh! There are 2 things that come to my mind when I think about this BREAK taken by Dhoni.

Fitness : I think he is tired and he must be after playing so many games in the last 18 months. The thing that bothers me is that he played in the IPL even though he had gotten injured and still decided to keep playing. IPL also reminds me of SRT playing in the IPL when everybody could see that he wasn't even half fit and then he declared that he needed rest and didn't play in the last 2 ODI tournaments. I think if one of them is getting blamed then its not fair .. both of them should be. In Dhoni's case he is missing the tests for his country and in SRT's example he missed the ODIs again for his country.

Politics : I dont know what everybody else saw in the last test series but I could easily notice some friction between SG and Dhoni. If you remember we didnt hear Dhoni say a single word in the test. Keepers usually say "come on.. well done " but nah nothing. In fact I remember SG saying "Dhoni dekh I can still field ". I think he is trying to stay out of the situation where he gets to face all this.

[fineleg]

I am surprised that some of you are surprised by this. As i said many months ago that Modi and Stanford will take test cricket to an innings defeat and this was just their 1st vicitim MS Dhoni- b Modi 0

Test cricket st. Modi b. IPL :mad:

[Chandan]

Let's clear up one thing first - Dhoni is NOT injured in anyway as far as we know. His keeping, batting, running between the wickets - nothing was affected by any injury in the latest two series. He is at least 95% fit as per any reports which have been out there or our eyewitness accounts and yet has chosen to withdraw from the tour. Remember, he played part of IPL with an injury probably because he was getting paid a few hundred thousand dollars for a 3 hour appearance. If it wasn't about the money and it was about test cricket and country etc. Dhoni being completely fit as of today would and should have played the test series and ideally rested himself from the ODI series to follow(and still had one full month before the CT, which BTW is not even a certainty as of now). Also, in that ODI series Tendulkar would be available and the argument that there is no senior does not work. And if seniors are so important, Yuvraj is one and Ganguly and Dravid can be called back as well. But Dhoni does not want to risk exerting his body for 18 days in the heat of Sri Lanka when the downside is that a possible injury can prevent him from captaining in the CT and later prevent him from taking part in the obscene money spinner, Champions League. Personally, I don't see anything wrong with his decision. Everyone needs to make money and for some more is always better and it cannot be held against them but please don't go on saying as if Dhoni NEEDED the rest - he did not. Cricket is game of heroes like Marshall who have bowled in a sling and Kumble with a strapped up jaw. Imran played the '92 WC with pain killers to lead the triumph. They needed the rest more than Dhoni but chose to put international cricket at it's premium position. Cricket is full of so many heroic feats that Dhoni's NEED for rest doesn't even come close to them. Just admit it, he likes the money and doesn't want to take any chances losing it - nothing inherently wrong with it.

So according to you, if Dhoni would have been payed 1.5 million dollars for those 15 days in tests, he'd have certainly turned up? If you answer is yes, then you are wrong. Dhoni just can't opt out of of ODIs because he was the one who asked the seniors to be dropped for a reason. If those seniors are called back would mean that Dhoni buckled down or is accepting his mistake that without Rahul and Saurav, the ODI team can't go forward. At this time, he is already under pressure in ODIs as a skipper because he lost two finals when none of the seniors were there. I don't think Dhoni would give up on his principles so quickly and easily. But deep within he too knows that not many players from the younger lot are there who are reliable and hence Dhoni has become the most vital player in the ODI team and at this troubled time, the captain who is giving a particular direction to the ship just cannot desert it. As for playing IPL, we all know how edgy BCCI was before the IPL started to make it a successful venture and they left no stones unturned in an attempt of doing so. If that meant dragging an injured Sachin on the field, then so be it. And none of the senior players could say no to BCCI--not even Sachin and Rahul who apparently was not very interested in playing T20. You think Dhoni could have said no its own board? If you still think yes, then I can't tell you much. So where should he have taken break from? He was ruled out for the final test vs Pak I remember and was not very fit when the series vs Australia began. He didn't opt out then. After CB series he was bruised and battered, yet he chose to play against SA, a superior opponent. But this test series was the only opportunity for him to rest before another hectic season sets in. If you think this is going to be the trend for the future and money of IPL has taken over the tradition of test, please tell me which other player can dare to test from test while he keeps playing ODIs and T20? You can give the example of any player in the world playing currently.

[Holysmoke]

are you? You are missing the point that MSD considers a Test series as less important than IPL. in otherwords, MSD "chose" to put the Test series on the backburner and he chose IPL over Tests (not IPL and Tests, but IPL over Tests). I say he chose - coz he knew this burnout will happen - it is INEVITABLE if he played IPL and ODIs - all in this span. He knew it could screw the Test chance in SL, but said screw it, if it happens it happens and chose IPL (while carrying niggles *all through* IPL).

Ofcourse, a random test series in SL is going to be less important than the inaugural IPL, which has broken all records. He was the highest paid player, for God's sake, and the captain of a franchise. Ofcourse the IPL was more important. It would be more important to me too! How naive are you,to believe that a player would give up 1.5 Million $ for 40 days of rest! I'm sorry, but thats wishful thinking. He wanted to take a break during the Asia cup and Kitply cup, but was coaxed into playing by the BCCI. Too bad, he misses the test series. If he hadnt opted out, you would be crying over his selection, asking what exactly has he done to get selected in the test team! Isnt that what you were whining about when we were in australia? Here's what you were saying during the Aus series. Please note he hasnt done anything worthwhile in tests since then.

Why dont we consider Hari's idea of dropping Dhoni, and getting KKD, and then Sehwag instead of Jaffer. Just to give the attacker + defender combo at top, and use this as an opportunity to get an all rounder IKP to strengthen batting and bowling.

Really disappointed with Dhoni and YS' batting. They are letting us down, we need 50s from both atleast!

[The Outsider]

Interesting post Shewtabh! There are 2 things that come to my mind when I think about this BREAK taken by Dhoni.

Fitness : I think he is tired and he must be after playing so many games in the last 18 months. The thing that bothers me is that he played in the IPL even though he had gotten injured and still decided to keep playing. IPL also reminds me of SRT playing in the IPL when everybody could see that he wasn't even half fit and then he declared that he needed rest and didn't play in the last 2 ODI tournaments. I think if one of them is getting blamed then its not fair .. both of them should be. In Dhoni's case he is missing the tests for his country and in SRT's example he missed the ODIs again for his country.

Tired? As I've said earlier Marshall took 7 wickets with an arm in a sling, Kapil had his thigh strapped up in the '81 Melbourne test and bowled against all advice, Kumble bowled with a strapped jaw, Tendulkar batted with back spasms. These people were seriously injured and stepped on to the cricket field, not merely tired. Simple fact that Dhoni cannot bring himself to put in that extra effort in a test as opposed to playing all IPL, ODIs, and preserving himself for future cash cow events makes him a mercenary. Nothing wrong with it - everyone has the right to earn his living but please don't make it sound as if poor Dhoni had all the desire to play test cricket only if he was not tired. Former test players have set such high standards of commitment that if a player wants to be called committed he will have to measure up to them.

Politics : I dont know what everybody else saw in the last test series but I could easily notice some friction between SG and Dhoni. If you remember we didnt hear Dhoni say a single word in the test. Keepers usually say "come on.. well done " but nah nothing. In fact I remember SG saying "Dhoni dekh I can still field ". I think he is trying to stay out of the situation where he gets to face all this.

So Dhoni will not play test cricket as long as Ganguly is there in the team? If he is putting such personal one on ones above the team then he needs to be disciplined.

[Holysmoke]

Tired? As I've said earlier Marshall took 7 wickets with an arm in a sling, Kapil had his thigh strapped up in the '81 Melbourne test and bowled against all advice, Kumble bowled with a strapped jaw, Tendulkar batted with back spasms. These people were seriously injured and stepped on to the cricket field, not merely tired.

You cant really compare the 2 Shwetabh. Those were incidences where the player was already in the game, and it was either him or nothing. Here Dhoni is opting out of a test series for rest, and we have replacements for him. Its not like he's doing a shoaib by bowling 3 overs in a test and then going home.

[Holysmoke]

Test cricket st. Modi b. IPL :mad:

lol.. I still cant believe you were thinking along the lines of him missing IPL for rest :hysterical::hysterical::hysterical:

[Desi Cartman]

Tired? As I've said earlier Marshall took 7 wickets with an arm in a sling, Kapil had his thigh strapped up in the '81 Melbourne test and bowled against all advice, Kumble bowled with a strapped jaw, Tendulkar batted with back spasms. These people were seriously injured and stepped on to the cricket field, not merely tired. Simple fact that Dhoni cannot bring himself to put in that extra effort in a test as opposed to playing all IPL, ODIs, and preserving himself for future cash cow events makes him a mercenary. Nothing wrong with it - everyone has the right to earn his living but please don't make it sound as if poor Dhoni had all the desire to play test cricket only if he was not tired. Former test players have set such high standards of commitment that if a player wants to be called committed he will have to measure up to them.

What I meant by " he is tired" is that of course he is tired but what I forgot to add was that he prefers to play T20 and CT rather than Test series. TBH who wouldn't be tired after so many days of cricket , practice and being away from home but he could have also chosen to play the 3 test matches and rest during the ODIs. It just shows that he gives more importance to the ODIs T20 IPL and some of us here can not believe that a person who rests during the test matches will be leading the Indian cricket for next 4-5 years :((. Its sad

So Dhoni will not play test cricket as long as Ganguly is there in the team? If he is putting such personal one on ones above the team then he needs to be disciplined.

I dont have ANY evidence to prove that but to me it seemed that he was very uncomfortable in the last series with the seniors around and maybe he is trying to avoid it ..

[The Outsider]

So according to you, if Dhoni would have been payed 1.5 million dollars for those 15 days in tests, he'd have certainly turned up?

It's a hypothetical question but he would have lapped it up based on past evidence - he played the IPL through injury for 1.5 million dollars. Why wouldn't he play tests for 1.5 million when he is not even injured?

If you answer is yes, then you are wrong. Dhoni just can't opt out of of ODIs because he was the one who asked the seniors to be dropped for a reason. If those seniors are called back would mean that Dhoni buckled down or is accepting his mistake that without Rahul and Saurav, the ODI team can't go forward. At this time, he is already under pressure in ODIs as a skipper because he lost two finals when none of the seniors were there. I don't think Dhoni would give up on his principles so quickly and easily. But deep within he too knows that not many players from the younger lot are there who are reliable and hence Dhoni has become the most vital player in the ODI team and at this troubled time, the captain who is giving a particular direction to the ship just cannot desert it.

The above implied that he is compromising the team for his ego. Mind you, I am not in favor of Ganguly or Dravid coming back but if the only reason Dhoni plays ODIs is that Ganguly and Dravid are not recalled and he can skip tests, that's utterly selfish on his part.

As for playing IPL, we all know how edgy BCCI was before the IPL started to make it a successful venture and they left no stones unturned in an attempt of doing so. If that meant dragging an injured Sachin on the field, then so be it. And none of the senior players could say no to BCCI--not even Sachin and Rahul who apparently was not very interested in playing T20. You think Dhoni could have said no its own board? If you still think yes, then I can't tell you much.

It's fantasy to think that Dhoni played each and every match in the IPL under pressure from the BCCI.

So where should he have taken break from? He was ruled out for the final test vs Pak I remember and was not very fit when the series vs Australia began. He didn't opt out then. After CB series he was bruised and battered, yet he chose to play against SA, a superior opponent. But this test series was the only opportunity for him to rest before another hectic season sets in.

If he can't take a break from money spinning masala ventures, then why does he need a break in the first place if he is committed to the country and test cricket? As I've posted above the standards of heroes in test cricket is so high that taking a break when you are tired being counted as a NEED, does not even figure. Why can't he rest from the end of the test series to the start of the CT? Or opt out of the Champions League to keep fresh for the Aussie series? If you can't see the answer is totally about money and the ego of captaining a side in such a black and white scenario, don't know what to say.....

If you think this is going to be the trend for the future and money of IPL has taken over the tradition of test, please tell me which other player can dare to test from test while he keeps playing ODIs and T20? You can give the example of any player in the world playing currently.

Jayasuriya already retired from tests to play ODIs and T20s, Styris did the same, Gilchrist plays IPL, Dhoni has skipped a test series. All this and IPL is only 2 months old. Time will throw up many such examples, I can't predict exactly who but they'll keep on coming at an increasing pace and tests will be relegated to the lowest priority of the new generation of cricketers.

[The Outsider]

You cant really compare the 2 Shwetabh. Those were incidences where the player was already in the game' date=' and it was either him or nothing. Here Dhoni is opting out of a test series for rest, and we have replacements for him. Its not like he's doing a shoaib by bowling 3 overs in a test and then going home.[/quote'] Alright, what about Imran Khan in the '92 WC. All doctors advised him against playing it. What about Tendulkar during the '03 WC which he played with a smashed up finger? I guess Dhoni is so tired compared to having back spasms and a smashed up finger as well?

[Holysmoke]

Alright' date=' what about Imran Khan in the '92 WC. All doctors advised him against playing it. What about Tendulkar during the '03 WC which he played with a smashed up finger? I guess Dhoni is so tired compared to having back spasms and a smashed up finger as well?[/quote'] Nobody is going to remember this test series in 2014. Every fan will remember the world cups. Like I said, cant compare them. A world cup is a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT BALLGAME. PS-offtopic- wasnt it smashed up toe? I dont remember, are you sure it was finger?

[Guest Hiten.]

Ofcourse, a random test series in SL is going to be less important than the inaugural IPL, which has broken all records. He was the highest paid player, for God's sake, and the captain of a franchise. Ofcourse the IPL was more important. It would be more important to me too! How naive are you,to believe that a player would give up 1.5 Million $ for 40 days of rest! I'm sorry, but thats wishful thinking. He wanted to take a break during the Asia cup and Kitply cup, but was coaxed into playing by the BCCI. Too bad, he misses the test series. If he hadnt opted out, you would be crying over his selection, asking what exactly has he done to get selected in the test team! Isnt that what you were whining about when we were in australia? Here's what you were saying during the Aus series. Please note he hasnt done anything worthwhile in tests since then.

Why dont we consider Hari's idea of dropping Dhoni, and getting KKD, and then Sehwag instead of Jaffer. Just to give the attacker + defender combo at top, and use this as an opportunity to get an all rounder IKP to strengthen batting and bowling.

Really disappointed with Dhoni and YS' batting. They are letting us down, we need 50s from both atleast!

Thanks a ton! Finey is an wannabe test purists. Finey is just trying to grab IPL by its neck whenever he smells an opportunity to show that 'hey i am not a troller, i am a test purist, you see'. As holy mentioned, people would have been cribbing about Dhoni's batting if not for his opting out. Some people just never fail to criticize.