Madrassa degree valid for Railway jobs -- Lalu Prasad Yadav

[sandtest]

I am speechless....he will never be tired of amusing people. sample this latest attempt of Lalu ji to protect the vote bank of Mussalmans--- NDTV Madrasa degree valid for railway jobs: Lalu The Indian Railways have decided to accept Madrasa (Islamic seminary) degrees as valid for its job requirement, Railway Minister Lalu Prasad said in Patna on Sunday. ''Now students of Madrasa, like any educational institution, will be able apply for jobs in the railways,'' Lalu Prasad said. ''All the necessary official formalities in this regard will be finalised soon by the railways,'' Lalu Prasad said. The move is seen as part of Lalu Prasad's political strategy ahead of the parliamentary elections to woo Muslim voters. Early this year, the minister promised to increase the percentage of Muslim employees in the railways. Last year acting on the Rajinder Sachar Committee recommendations, the government issued directives to all ministries to improve participation of minorities in government jobs. Till February 2008, of the 67 departments and ministries under the central government, the railways had nearly three percent Muslim employees, which is well below the average five per cent mark. http://www.ndtv.com/convergence/ndtv/story.aspx?id=NEWEN20080055938

[Guest dada_rocks]

Well that was the demand of muslim folks "give me job on the basis my knowledge of quran/hadith " and lalu fulfilled it..... These guys will never learn.. that's how it all started back in 1905 conceding ground which culminated in 1947.........

[Guest dada_rocks]

We Biharis sincerely apologize for producing Laloo Prasad.. we know no amount of apology will suffice but still to let u know we are very veyr very sorry........ Hopefully Nitish Kumar will send this guy packing in upcoming election

[Lurker]

We Biharis sincerely apologize for producing Laloo Prasad.. we know no amount of apology will suffice but still to let u know we are very veyr very sorry........ Hopefully Nitish Kumar will send this guy packing in upcoming election

:angry_smile::angry_smile::angry_smile: Now you see that! When I kept shouting hoarsly from the rooftops you would always suggest how Laloo was great at center and it was Bihari politics that made him an a$s :angry_smile:

[Lurker]

Well that was the demand of muslim folks "give me job on the basis my knowledge of quran/hadith " and lalu fulfilled it.....

Actually Madarssa courses were not so much about Quran/Hadith in yesteryears. Many famous Hindi writers, including Gulzar and Shailendra, were the products of Madarssa system. In fact if you watch some of Gulzar's early movies, say of 70s, you will often find many of the protagonists who studied in Madarsa. Mere Apne comes to mind immediately where Meera Kumari often mentions it. She is Hindu, and a Brahmin at that, and at one point complements her relative - Arun teri biwi to badi pyaari baatein karti hain, madarse parhi hai na bitiya hamari. Then later on she meets a kid in streets and chastises his parents - Kaise maan baap hai re tere, madarse nahin bhejte parhne ko. The situation went down the toilet in 80s and after I beleive when religious fundamentalism swept across the country.

[DomainK]

This move will have a very bad long term effect. Our education and government recruitment system is a mess anyways. I dread the day when madrassa students will be allowed reservation on government and private jobs. Where is this country headed?

[Ram]

O.K, now we are slowly back the the Muslim bashing, Hindutva trumpeting then.. Excellent, it feels like GD, only now.

[Ram]

I just dont get it .... you dont want to see such nonsense posted here because it embarases a particular community even if it is a fact ? If not then how would you go about presenting it ?

I have absolutely no problems if you guys want to post about the evils of the society. But the problem comes when you all single-mindedly focus on the frailities of one particular community alone. You are free to have your own ideologies/mindsets in your personal life, no one can take that right away from you, but why make a public forum a mouth-piece for all your prejudices and preferences? After all, its such prejudices that are root-causes for all friction in the society. Stop influencing people with your slanted views and analysis of news. Everyone here is intelligent enough to make their own judgments. Besides, its an open forum policy that religion should be kept out of the discussions, but you guys flaunt the rule with utter disdain.

[Ram]

Its not about what is right and what is wrong, its about following the rules here and those very same rules say no religion bashing, be it Hinduism, Islam or Christianity. The discussion ends there.

[Guest dada_rocks]

:angry_smile::angry_smile::angry_smile: Now you see that! When I kept shouting hoarsly from the rooftops you would always suggest how Laloo was great at center and it was Bihari politics that made him an a :angry_smile:

When did I say that.. seriously if i said it then I must have bene typing while drunk..I have been saying he is an ***** happens to be at right place in right time i.w booming india and in railway YEs I might have said: Laloo did change the social scene in Bihar whereby for upper castes open humiliation of lower caste began thing of past... yes in pockets it still happens but it no longer is socially accepted behaviour..

[Guest dada_rocks]

Actually Madarssa courses were not so much about Quran/Hadith in yesteryears. Many famous Hindi writers, including Gulzar and Shailendra, were the products of Madarssa system. In fact if you watch some of Gulzar's early movies, say of 70s, you will often find many of the protagonists who studied in Madarsa. Mere Apne comes to mind immediately where Meera Kumari often mentions it. She is Hindu, and a Brahmin at that, and at one point complements her relative - Arun teri biwi to badi pyaari baatein karti hain, madarse parhi hai na bitiya hamari. Then later on she meets a kid in streets and chastises his parents - Kaise maan baap hai re tere, madarse nahin bhejte parhne ko. The situation went down the toilet in 80s and after I beleive when religious fundamentalism swept across the country.

Lurker Gulzars and shailnedra of this world don't need any instiution they would do well anywhere.. I am talking about the bulk of product coming from the assembly line of Medrassah.. Yes I was watching Mere Apne and she does say that Mederasah nahin jana tum logon kop and I will put that under too much islamic influence of script writers in those era.. On basis of this movie you can't say much yes it just underlines script-writers fantassy..... Arbi farsi Quran/hadith parh ke koi kya naukari karega other than mullahgiri......... BTS there are Sanskrit school all around in Bihar and it's accepted as equivalent to mainstream matriculation.. I have seen the syllabus there they have more than oen sanskrit course but they teach math science everything.. This sort reform can be done even in Mederassah.. But Mullahs would take none of it.. wahin purani kahaani I will do whatever I like but it's your responsibility that I shoudl eb gainfully employed after crap education..

[Guest dada_rocks]

This move will have a very bad long term effect. Our education and government recruitment system is a mess anyways. I dread the day when madrassa students will be allowed reservation on government and private jobs. Where is this country headed?

Don't worry that's not going to happen constitution wil have to be amended for that and I don't see any party garnering 3/4 majority in distant future which is prerequisite for any meddling with basic characteristics of constitution

[Guest dada_rocks]

I have absolutely no problems if you guys want to post about the evils of the society. But the problem comes when you all single-mindedly focus on the frailities of one particular community alone. You are free to have your own ideologies/mindsets in your personal life, no one can take that right away from you, but why make a public forum a mouth-piece for all your prejudices and preferences? After all, its such prejudices that are root-causes for all friction in the society. Stop influencing people with your slanted views and analysis of news. Everyone here is intelligent enough to make their own judgments. Besides, its an open forum policy that religion should be kept out of the discussions, but you guys flaunt the rule with utter disdain.

HE means whenever you find such issues invent some similar issue in other community and post it.. Wait a minute where have I seen that practice.. yes psec electronic media.. sorry we refuse to succumb to that crappy practice.. IF it stinks it must ebe told it does...... One particualr community gets bashed because stink in their alley is foulest............U don't see pandaji shouting give me job after vedic education so why shoudl anyone just for the sake of it bash them...... It's not religion it's politics if u can't understand that sibtle difference well I gues u need to read more.. Anything mujslim related gets thrown under religion and people branded as islamo-phobe these days, not that there is anythign wrong with being islamophobe..

[Guest dada_rocks]

Its not about what is right and what is wrong, its about following the rules here and those very same rules say no religion bashing, be it Hinduism, Islam or Christianity. The discussion ends there.

It'sn ot religion bashign it's religion adherents twisted ways bashing.. none is discussing quran it's matetr of politics being played in name of muslim vote which is being discussed.. one needs some fine grasp to see the diference..

[Lurker]

Lurker Gulzars and shailnedra of this world don't need any instiution they would do well anywhere.. I am talking about the bulk of product coming from the assembly line of Medrassah.. Yes I was watching Mere Apne and she does say that Mederasah nahin jana tum logon kop and I will put that under too much islamic influence of script writers in those era.. On basis of this movie you can't say much yes it just underlines script-writers fantassy.....

Now see that is a very unfair argument. Credit should be given where it is due. Indeed people like Gulzar benefitted immensly from their own background with madarsa system and they admit it. And we should be appreciative of that rather than to suggest Gulzar would have been Gulzar no matter what. A lot of Hindi intellactual, or Hindu intellactual rather, have benefited from Madarsa system and we should be appreciative of that. Do keep in mind I have already mentioned how situation has gotten progressively worse after 80s.

Arbi farsi Quran/hadith parh ke koi kya naukari karega other than mullahgiri......... BTS there are Sanskrit school all around in Bihar and it's accepted as equivalent to mainstream matriculation.. I have seen the syllabus there they have more than oen sanskrit course but they teach math science everything.. This sort reform can be done even in Mederassah.. But Mullahs would take none of it.. wahin purani kahaani I will do whatever I like but it's your responsibility that I shoudl eb gainfully employed after crap education..

I dont have any issue with this particular argument. In modern world religious based education should either align itself with science and technology or else suffer the consequences. By the way it would be interesting to see how it pans out. In most of these exams there may be an Interview. So would the interviewer asks questions related to Urdu Literature(Ghalib, Zauq etc) or would they ask about Islam?? If the former is the case I would have no issues. If the latter is the case I will have grave issues with the development.

[Guest dada_rocks]

Now see that is a very unfair argument. Credit should be given where it is due. Indeed people like Gulzar benefitted immensly from their own background with madarsa system and they admit it. And we should be appreciative of that rather than to suggest Gulzar would have been Gulzar no matter what. A lot of Hindi intellactual, or Hindu intellactual rather, have benefited from Madarsa system and we should be appreciative of that. Do keep in mind I have already mentioned how situation has gotten progressively worse after 80s. I dont have any issue with this particular argument. In modern world religious based education should either align itself with science and technology or else suffer the consequences. By the way it would be interesting to see how it pans out. In most of these exams there may be an Interview. So would the interviewer asks questions related to Urdu Literature(Ghalib, Zauq etc) or would they ask about Islam?? If the former is the case I would have no issues. If the latter is the case I will have grave issues with the development.

Let us say take live example.. I went to my village school where people seldom go beyond 10th standard.. I went on to make myself somebody by middle-class aspiration standard. Now one of my teacher of that era once visits my place and goes on and on how he taught me and how his teaching has played a great part.. One of my villager was listening to my teachers rambling and after a while retorts.. Master Saheb you have taught thousands of students and more or less all of them could not do anything so who is going to shoulder responsibility for that. Your real worth is shown by those routine sample not by some exception.. I guess I have put the drift of my argument lucidly.. Shailendra/Gulzaar don't need any institution.. Medersah can take credit for those names but their achivement is no reflection of medersah. I have nothign against Medersah students getting jobs but for heavens sake reform it . Prepare them for the job which u want to shower on them. Let us say they will ask Zauq although I can assure you literary figures in any society by nature are rebellious in their writing so most certainly Zauq's views won't gell with quranic views so you can be sure they do not get taught Zauq or Faiz so question of them being tested on that is a non-starter...... Even if they ask questions on Zauq in what way that helps a railway employee at ticket counter for instance... Literature is good but its use is limited in real llife... Hope laloo musters enough courage to ask for reform in medersah since he enjoys muslims confidence so who knows they might even listen...... PS: I have doubts about the vericity of instance being mentioned in Mere Apne since I am yet to find even one hindu of even that bygone era who went to medersah for education.. Trust me where I come from every village has got one medersah so access was never a problem....

[THX_1138]

This is most unfortunate! A religious school, irrespective of its central dogma... no religious school is ever adequate in providing the skills needed for a technical job unless this religious school follows a curriculumn subscribed by the department of education. for instance, i think a madrassa where they follow the CBSE or the ICSE syllabus and the students are eventually validated by the All india senior secondary board examination, then yeah, sure that madrassa generated proficiently trained individuals. though to be honest, the teachings of islam are dogmatically opposed to academic and scientific inquiry and methodical investigation.

[Guest dada_rocks]

This is most unfortunate! A religious school, irrespective of its central dogma... no religious school is ever adequate in providing the skills needed for a technical job unless this religious school follows a curriculumn subscribed by the department of education. for instance, i think a madrassa where they follow the CBSE or the ICSE syllabus and the students are eventually validated by the All india senior secondary board examination, then yeah, sure that madrassa generated proficiently trained individuals. though to be honest, the teachings of islam are dogmatically opposed to academic and scientific inquiry and methodical investigation.

Precisely

[sandtest]

...so out of crores of Madrassa students, in a span of 50 years, a couple of exceptional talents like Gulzar can be used as subtle justification ....talk about Madrasa logic! Anyway, I have observed very closely the Madrassas in far-way UP and here is the synposis -- The most respected Madrassas in Jaunpur, Azamgarh and Allahabad and which are someway recognised by government are affiliated to Jamia Millia Islamia (mind you I am talking about Madrassas in city areas and numbers of such affiliated Madrassas are very low). The teaching subjects for these rather "recognized" Madrasas mainly consist of -- (1) Arabic (2) Urdu (4) Quran and Ahle Hadith (5) Farsi -- Jaunpur Jamia Millia Madrassa (6) Unaani Medicine -- Only in Allahabad There is No Technical, Science or English language course offerred even in most "respectable" Madrassas in UP affilaited to Jamia Millia, forget those large population of madrassas in rural Muslism areas in UP where only Arabic and Urdu learning is the main. That's the reason why a Lalu is able to exploit the fringe Muslim population. BJP has long advocated for reformation and "Indianization" of Madrassas and Mosque run institutions, but as usual our p-sec brigade termed it as attempt of saffronization. What you will expect from radical Muslims when there are many among our own p-sec brigade who don't want Muslims to reformed for the fear of loosing vote-bank appeal.:giggle:

[THX_1138]

...so out of crores of Madrassa students, in a span of 50 years, a couple of exceptional talents like Gulzar can be used as subtle justification ....talk about Madrasa logic! Anyway, I have observed very closely the Madrassas in far-way UP and here is the synposis -- The most respected Madrassas in Jaunpur, Azamgarh and Allahabad and which are someway recognised by government are affiliated to Jamia Millia Islamia (mind you I am talking about Madrassas in city areas and numbers of such affiliated Madrassas are very low). The teaching subjects for these rather "recognized" Madrasas mainly consist of -- (1) Arabic (2) Urdu (4) Quran and Ahle Hadith (5) Farsi -- Jaunpur Jamia Millia Madrassa (6) Unaani Medicine -- Only in Allahabad There is No Technical, Science or English language course offerred even in most "respectable" Madrassas in UP affilaited to Jamia Millia, forget those large population of madrassas in rural Muslism areas in UP where only Arabic and Urdu learning is the main. That's the reason why a Lalu is able to exploit the fringe Muslim population. BJP has long advocated for reformation and "Indianization" of Madrassas and Mosque run institutions, but as usual our p-sec brigade termed it as attempt of saffronization. What you will expect from radical Muslims when there are many among our own p-sec brigade who don't want Muslims to reformed for the fear of loosing vote-bank appeal.:giggle:

to be fair, if they included those, then i feel that islamic studies would become superfluous to their curriculum. however, these madrassas are not set up in direct competition or opposition to the prevalent school boards. they are what one might call "alternate schools", and like alternate medicine, just as rubbish. while using the example of one or two iconoclasts such as gulzar represent an exceptionally poor argument, i would reiterate that if there exists a madrassa where the curriculum is parallel if not adopted straight from the ICSE or the CBSE, and students are validated by a system of standardized tests such as those colloquially known as the Boards, then yes, this particular madrassa's graduates are just as qualified on paper as their counterparts from other schools. i say this since quite a few years ago, my parents were contemplating sending me to a gurukul near mathura in india; and their motivation for judging such a school as an equal to the school i was then attending was that they followed the syllabus of the ICSE besides their religious teachings, hence in essense, it does not matter what the religious indoctrination of the particular school is, as long as it follows a scientific and rigorous education. on the other hand, if this school is doing the work that the government is failing to do, i.e. expanding education in rural india, then if the graduates are willing to undergo a rigorous apprenticeship under a veteran, then they can eventually (operating word eventually) be qualified for the job.