Dhoni is a poor test match player!

[Serani]

When is Lords not a featherbed? Although props to Dhoni India were in trouble so suprising he did well.

[Guest Gunner]

This is where we go into hypothetical territory. How can you say Dhoni could not have played an innings when he wasn't even around? You can't run down a player based on a hypothesis. As a test-wk batsman Dhoni is the one of the best going around' date=' especially what he brings to the table as a captain. Or putting it another way, if I had to choose a wk-batsman for India from any team, I would pick Dhoni.[/quote'] 1. It is not hypothetical in the sense that he doesn't have the technique to play that innings. 2. Rank him, don't come out with straw men like best going around etc.

[The Outsider]

I am sure your selective memory left out Lords' for a reason or maybe you suddenly found out it wasn't a featherbed :haha:

Let's assume Lords' was a minefield, now convince me Anderson, Sidebottom, Tremlett are greater than Akram, Waqar, and Saqlain? :hysterical:

[Ultimate_Game]

1. It is not hypothetical in the sense that he doesn't have the technique to play that innings. 2. Rank him, don't come out with straw men like best going around etc.

1. If we go by that "sense" Manjrekar would be the greatest batsman since Bradman and Sehwag would be nowhere near a Test team. 2. As I said in my earlier post if I had to pick anyone in my team, I would still pick Dhoni, essentially ranking him at the top.

[Ultimate_Game]

Let's assume Lords' was a minefield' date=' now convince me Anderson, Sidebottom, Tremlett are greater than Akram, Waqar, and Saqlain? :hysterical:[/quote'] I wonder if Lords' is such a featherbed why do Indians always struggle at Lords' and why did Dhoni have to go out and save India's blushes :haha: maybe on these "featherbeds" other batsmen don't score intentionally so that Dhoni could get a chance to score some runs :hysterical:

[The Outsider]

I wonder if Lords' is such a featherbed why do Indians always struggle at Lords' and why did Dhoni have to go out and save India's blushes :haha: maybe on these "featherbeds" other batsmen don't score intentionally so that Dhoni could get a chance to score some runs :hysterical:

Nahin nahin, bhai - I agree Lords' is a minefield. Now convince me Anderson, Sidebottom, Tremlett are greater than Akram, Waqar, and Saqlain.:hysterical:

[Ultimate_Game]

Nahin nahin' date=' bhai - I agree Lords' is a minefield. Now convince me Anderson, Sidebottom, Tremlett are greater than Akram, Waqar, and Saqlain.:hysterical:[/quote'] Bhaisahab if we have already agreed that Lord's is not a featherbed the second point is moot :--D

[The Outsider]

Bhaisahab if we have already agreed that Lord's is not a featherbed the second point is moot :--D

So facing Anderson, Sidebottom, Tremlett is equivalent to facing Akram, Waqar, and Saqlain on a minefield (assuming Lords' is a minefield, a tough sell but let's buy it for now)?

[Guest Gunner]

1. If we go by that "sense" Manjrekar would be the greatest batsman since Bradman and Sehwag would be nowhere near a Test team. 2. As I said in my earlier post if I had to pick anyone in my team, I would still pick Dhoni, essentially ranking him at the top.

You are making no sense with Point 1 when I have clearly pointed out an innings played by Mongia which was very very difficult. So you think Dhoni is the best test wk-bat at the moment? If this is true there is nothing further to discuss.

[Ultimate_Game]

So facing Anderson' date=' Sidebottom, Tremlett is equivalent to facing Akram, Waqar, and Saqlain on a minefield (assuming Lords' is a minefield, a tough sell but let's buy it for now)?[/quote'] Facing Anderson, Sidebootom, Tremlett in swinging and overcast English conditions while trying to save the Test is every bit as challenging as facing Akram, Waqar and Saqlain in the subcontinent. As for the tough sell, if Lords' is such a belter how come Indians fare so badly there and how come Dhoni had to come out and save the game? Was it the conditions were so batting friendly that other batsmen didn't feel like scoring runs? Or maybe you are trying to say that facing seamers in Chennai is more difficult than facing seamers in English conditions?

[The Outsider]

Facing Anderson, Sidebootom, Tremlett in swinging and overcast English conditions while trying to save the Test is every bit as challenging as facing Akram, Waqar and Saqlain in the subcontinent.

Okay! :hysterical::hysterical: BTW, for a significant part of his innings Dhoni faced Vaughan and Panesar because light was poor.

[asterix]

^ Lankans faced English seamers in far worse conditions prior to this series. Indian batsmen failure is more to do with being under prepared and not much match practice..

[Ultimate_Game]

You are making no sense with Point 1 when I have clearly pointed out an innings played by Mongia which was very very difficult. So you think Dhoni is the best test wk-bat at the moment? If this is true there is nothing further to discuss.

And I have said that Dhoni has also played similar innings like he did at Lords' last time we toured England, and managed to save the Test and series for India. But you are trying to convince me that Dhoni could not have played the innings which Mongia did which I disagree with as the argument is hypothetical.

[Guest Gunner]

Facing Anderson, Sidebootom, Tremlett in swinging and overcast English conditions while trying to save the Test is every bit as challenging as facing Akram, Waqar and Saqlain in the subcontinent. As for the tough sell, if Lords' is such a belter how come Indians fare so badly there and how come Dhoni had to come out and save the game? Was it the conditions were so batting friendly that other batsmen didn't feel like scoring runs? Or maybe you are trying to say that facing seamers in Chennai is more difficult than facing seamers in English conditions?

The more you say things like this the more suspect it becomes when you say you watched Chennai '99. The paki bowlers were absolutely wreaking havoc. They were a million times better than sidebottom and co.

[Ultimate_Game]

Okay! :hysterical::hysterical: BTW, for a significant part of his innings Dhoni faced Vaughan and Panesar because light was poor.

I am sure Chennai is such a "minefield" that nobody other than Mongia could have scored runs there :hysterical::hysterical:

[suraj]

So what is the solution even if we accept Dhoni as a bad player in tests as wk-batsman (as a captain there is no comparison to him) What is the alternative???

[Ultimate_Game]

The more you say things like this the more suspect it becomes when you say you watched Chennai '99. The paki bowlers were absolutely wreaking havoc. They were a million times better than sidebottom and co.

And when you say things like A was "million" times better than B the more I question your judgement.

[The Outsider]

I am sure Chennai is such a "minefield" that nobody other than Mongia could have scored runs there :hysterical::hysterical:

I am sure Dhoni wouldn't have because he is yet to play an innings like the one Mongia played at Kotla and Chennai despite playing more tests than Mongia.

[The Outsider]

So what is the solution even if we accept Dhoni as a bad player in tests as wk-batsman (as a captain there is no comparison to him) What is the alternative???

No alternative, he is still the best we've got. Unfortunately the best we've got is one of the poorest wicketkeepers in the world and a FTB who has bloated his average on the back of a powerful batting line up. As keepers McCullum, Jayawardene, Baugh, Boucher, Haddin and maybe even Prior (depends on how he does in the subcontinent) are better than him.

[Ultimate_Game]

I am sure Dhoni wouldn't have because he is yet to play an innings like the one Mongia played at Kotla and Chennai despite playing more tests than Mongia.

I am sure Dhoni wouldn't have been able to play innings like those just because you say so. Here are a couple of comparisons... Mongia's Kotla innings - Dhoni's 148 against Pak Mongia's Chennai innings - Dhoni's 76* at Lords' batting with the tail and saving the Test by just 1 wkt And along with those Dhoni does have a few more 50 and 100+ scores which Mongia didn't.