Obama's major foreign policy speech

[Kriterion]

Wow! Thats quite over the top and you know it Kriterion, dont you? USA would have done jack in IInd World War(which I presume you were hinting at here) had it not been for European countries specially England & Russia. Specifically Russia was the nation that broke Nazi's back. It went toe to toe at Stalingrad and destroyed German Army(and pschyche). As a nation Russia suffered the most in WW2, and as an Army its efforts is second to none. In fact I would put Russian effort much ahead of American troops. xx

Fine agreed. You want to say that the US had help. Fine. But the russians woulda gotten their butts stomped if it hadne't been so cold. yes they got lucky the nazis were dumb enough to repeat napoleon's mistake. if russia was in more moderate climate, the nazis would have overrun them as well. they took france, all of western europe, and woulda taken britain too.

[Lurker]

Fine agreed. You want to say that the US had help. Fine. But the russians woulda gotten their butts stomped if it hadne't been so cold. yes they got lucky the nazis were dumb enough to repeat napoleon's mistake. if russia was in more moderate climate' date= the nazis would have overrun them as well. they took france, all of western europe, and woulda taken britain too.

You make 2 grave mistakes there. a) Russia wont be the first, nor would it be the last, that gained from its strategic advantage. Many empires have done that and why not?? You are in there to win a war not to win brownie points. If anything the credit should be given to Russian Generals that they dragged the war to the exact weather format where they knew Germans were vulnerable, and indeed they were proven right. b) Russia sacrificed MORE than any other country in WW II. Every 3rd person that died in WW II was a Russian soldier. The total number of Russian casulaties(23 million) is twice that by the rest of Western world put together!!! You can not even begin to compare Russia with France, the latter lost less than half a million soldiers. England lost the same number(half a million). Even USA lost only 1 million or so. To compare that with a nation that lost 23 times that number is simply unfair and irresponsible. xxx

[Ram]

Obama has said he will pull out ALL American soldiers from Iraq, within 16 months of assuming office. So essentially what America has done is to invade a relatively peaceful Islamic country, overthrow the dictator, create enough reasons for insurgency, radicalize the Sunnis and make them go head-to-head with the Shias to the point where a civil war is impending. Now, they want to leave. :haha: But to be honest, anyone will seem an angel when compared to Bush and his stupid 'either you are with us, or against us' and 'Axil of Evil' policies. Here is interview with Obama's foreign policy adviser. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7527668.stm

[Lurker]

Obama has said he will pull out ALL American soldiers from Iraq, within 16 months of assuming office.

The major coup there seems to be the fact that Iraqi PM Maliki has basically endorsed Obama's plan when the latter did his overseas trip last week. This is in obvious contrast to John McCain who wants to fight 100 year war in Iraq, and George Bush who well is always clueless on the subject. Any sane American who is following Iraq war would support Obama since he seems to have direct support of the actual leader of Iraq. Can you imagine a scenario where say John McCain comes to power, wants to be in Iraq for another decade(atleast) while Iraqi PM wants American troops off within 16 months? That would make the already grave situation worse.

[Ram]

The major coup there seems to be the fact that Iraqi PM Maliki has basically endorsed Obama's plan when the latter did his overseas trip last week. This is in obvious contrast to John McCain who wants to fight 100 year war in Iraq, and George Bush who well is always clueless on the subject. Any sane American who is following Iraq war would support Obama since he seems to have direct support of the actual leader of Iraq. Can you imagine a scenario where say John McCain comes to power, wants to be in Iraq for another decade(atleast) while Iraqi PM wants American troops off within 16 months? That would make the already grave situation worse.

Really? When was this? That is like a slap on the face of` the current Bush administration. Though, I am not sure how viable this 16 month plan is.. The security situation fluctuates EVERY month. Things are very volatile. You cant just leave like that.

[Lurker]

^^ It was an interview in Der Speigel the German newspaper. Iraq Leader Maliki Supports Obama's Withdrawal Plans. In an interview with SPIEGEL, Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki said Barack Obama's 16 month timeframe for a withdrawal from Iraq is the right one. Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki supports US presidential candidate Barack Obama's plan to withdraw US troops from Iraq within 16 months. When asked in and interview with SPIEGEL when he thinks US troops should leave Iraq, Maliki responded "as soon as possible, as far as we are concerned." He then continued: "US presidential candidate Barack Obama talks about 16 months. That, we think, would be the right timeframe for a withdrawal, with the possibility of slight changes." http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,566841,00.html This is doing the rounds currently in US media. Left wingers are calling it a big endorsment for Obama, right wingers calling it misquotation(when applicable).

[Guest dada_rocks]

Obama has said he will pull out ALL American soldiers from Iraq, within 16 months of assuming office. So essentially what America has done is to invade a relatively peaceful Islamic country, overthrow the dictator, create enough reasons for insurgency, radicalize the Sunnis and make them go head-to-head with the Shias to the point where a civil war is impending. Now, they want to leave. :haha: But to be honest, anyone will seem an angel when compared to Bush and his stupid 'either you are with us, or against us' and 'Axil of Evil' policies. Here is interview with Obama's foreign policy adviser. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7527668.stm

now it reads better to call saddam's regime peaceful is pushing it too much.... it was a genocidal regime but we all know that's not why it was invaded.. Obama's whole [olicy revolves around somehow withdrawing troops so goal is withdrawla not the stabilization of iraq.... yeah yeah we get it going in was wrong but that doesn;t mean running away will undo that wrong. now when they have screwed they betetr make suresanity gets restored before they leave.. In my view this withdrawal-centric approach shows two finger to the concern about stability..

[Guest dada_rocks]

Media is basically Obama cheer-leader these days they willl twist anything to make his novie outburst look good.... it's same scenario as Rahul moron Gandhi in India.. well to Obama's credit he can't be as clueless as Rahul gandhi even if he puts serius efforts towards it.. SoBasically american media's job is relatively easier than our indian media....

[kumble_rocks]

now it reads better to call saddam's regime peaceful is pushing it too much.... it was a genocidal regime but we all know that's not why it was invaded.. Obama's whole [olicy revolves around somehow withdrawing troops so goal is withdrawla not the stabilization of iraq.... yeah yeah we get it going in was wrong but that doesn;t mean running away will undo that wrong. now when they have screwed they betetr make suresanity gets restored before they leave.. In my view this withdrawal-centric approach shows two finger to the concern about stability..

It's a pity that war mongrers and their supporters like yourself usually happen to be Chickenhawks who actually live in their ivory towers amid comfort and luxury , but want others to wage their wars for selfish means. Repeat after me five deferments Cheney and AWOL Bush waged a unnecessary war. No need to bleed further . Obama is right in withdrawing as soon as he can. American Soldiers are better served fighting real wars not Oil wars.

[Guest dada_rocks]

It's a pity that war mongrers and their supporters like yourself usually happen to be Chickenhawks who actually live in their ivory towers amid comfort and luxury ' date=' but want others to wage their wars for selfish means. Repeat after me five deferments Cheney and AWOL Bush waged a unnecessary war. No need to bleed further . Obama is right in withdrawing as soon as he can. American Soldiers are better served fighting real wars not Oil wars.[/quote']:finger: here is my response.. who the fuuuuuck cares who did what point is what should be the way forward .. repeat after me withdrawl-centric policy is hogwash can earn some browny pits amogn war-weary masses but certainly is not the right thing to do ..Anyway due to us chickenhearted you have the luxury of voicing whatever opinion u like.......People like you on first sight of gun start speaking qalama in german I guess and pass it off as principled peaceful stand.. Trying to pass off cowardice as peace is not going to cut

[kumble_rocks]

:finger: here is my response.. who the fuuuuuck cares who did what point is what should be the way forward .. repeat after me withdrawl-centric policy is hogwash can earn some browny pits amogn war-weary masses but certainly is not the right thing to do ..Anyway due to us chickenhearted you have the luxury of voicing whatever opinion u like.......People like you on first sight of gun start speaking qalama in german I guess and pass it off as principled peaceful stand.. Trying to pass off cowardice as peace is not going to cut

Tell that to the families of dead soldiers ! And back to chump !:finger: You are classic Chickenhawk .Admit it ! How convenient for Physics Prof to sit in his Ivory tower and suggest that soldiers stay in hells hole and fight to die ., They didn't enlist to fight fake wars . And your response disgust me .

[Lurker]

Obama's whole [olicy revolves around somehow withdrawing troops so goal is withdrawla not the stabilization of iraq.... yeah yeah we get it going in was wrong but that doesn;t mean running away will undo that wrong. now when they have screwed they betetr make suresanity gets restored before they leave.. In my view this withdrawal-centric approach shows two finger to the concern about stability..

Lets explore that further DR. Help me understand how staying in Iraq, and not planning a withdrawl, will actually do anything good for United States. Yes it is all very fine to say they scrwed it but now stay there and make it better. Help me understand how USA can better Iraq, and how exactly USA stands to gain by it. By the by it was interesting to see you say USA scrwed Iraq, not too many right wingers(Americans, Indians or otherwise) accept that. xxx

[Lurker]

Media is basically Obama cheer-leader these days they willl twist anything to make his novie outburst look good.... it's same scenario as Rahul moron Gandhi in India.. well to Obama's credit he can't be as clueless as Rahul gandhi even if he puts serius efforts towards it.. SoBasically american media's job is relatively easier than our indian media....

Not quite. Anyone who has followed American politics closely will tell you that John McCain is a media darling. If Politician A faces an issue he may be hauled over coal, if McCain does the same he is often let go. A good example would be the pastor issue where Obama was roasted by media but McCain went scottfree. Heck McCain has often said in jest how media is his constituency. Simple fact is Obama has beaten McCain at his own game(media).

[Guest dada_rocks]

JohN mccain was media darling because he was up against bush. Not anymore..... I am yet to see even one news channel scrutnising any of obamas double-speak except FOX......... he has been given nine lives like we have accorded our Manmohan Singh...... I have listed our Manmohan's serious misadventure but yet middel class morality is driven by he is one of us hence not guilty.. little detour for instance Maywati is unmarried not child so it's fair to say that whatever she does is for her party heck she has royal life already so amassing wealth for oneself hardly makes sense...... I have no doubt in my mind that she leeched money for her party and we have all seen in latest saga of MP buying that political parties in india need serious money. Manmohan singh uses that money to buy MPS but he is innocent guy and mayawati is corrupt for amassing money for her party for who knows future potential MP buying.. Same kind of theme plays wiht obama he gives vibe of one of us for the middle-class--morality mainstream media so he can do no wrong...... People are lapping whatever he chimes in....... Anyway even u accept bottomline is that Obama is media-darling as of today so I for one take any commentary from mainstream media in support of Obama with dollops of salt..

[Lurker]

JohN mccain was media darling because he was up against bush. Not anymore..... I am yet to see even one news channel scrutnising any of obamas double-speak except FOX......... he has been given nine lives like we have accorded our Manmohan Singh......

Which news channel are you watching DR?? My earlier example, of John McCain going scottfree when it came to discriminating pastors is relevant to this Presidential election and not the one involving Bush. Obama was hauled over coal for his association with pastor Jeremiah Wright. And he was roasted not merely by FOX but even extreme left leaning MSNBC. CNN was at him as well. In the very least he was called to make his stand clear everyday. Around this happened John McCain was involved in pastor fiasco himself, two pastors(John Hagee and other whose name I forget). Anyway this registered a mere blip. And I am sure while you must have heard of Wright fiasco you would have perhaps been unaware of Hagee etc.

[Guest dada_rocks]

You are talking about Hagee right.. John hagee does come of as saint in comparison toJeraimaah and company. moreover Hagee endorsed him he was not his mentor spirital guru of 20-30 years as was the case with Obama.. And which channel except FOX took on Obama if anythging they all were falling over each other to somehow explain it away.. And when he gave that cop-out speech all was forgotten they bought the alibi..They didn;t feel the need to question him why an adult person kept sitting all these years listening to that kind of garbage divisive talk........

[Lurker]

You are talking about Hagee right.. John hagee does come of as saint in comparison toJeraimaah and company. moreover Hagee endorsed him he was not his mentor spirital guru of 20-30 years as was the case with Obama.. And which channel except FOX took on Obama if anythging they all were falling over each other to somehow explain it away.. And when he gave that cop-out speech all was forgotten they bought the alibi..They didn;t feel the need to question him why an adult person kept sitting all these years listening to that kind of garbage divisive talk........

Indeed I am talking of Hagee and practically none of the news channel did anything about him. Sure you can say Wright was this that and the other but that doesnt explain the silence of the media when it comes to McCain. The fact is Obama is simply beating McCain at his game. An example would be the ovreseas trip. McCain did this almost 2 months back! Went to same countries and registered a clip. Heck he so much as put his foot in the mouth in Iraq when he said how Iran was supplying the predominantly Sunni Al Qaeda, a complete insane argument considering US officials always accept Irani involvment with Shia extremists in Iraq. On the other hand Obama went the same route except his speeches, meetings were well received from Berlin to Baghdad. And why not? The man is the ONLY leading USA Politician till date that can atleast name the countries right - and so Iraq is Iraq and not Ayray, Taliban is Taliban and not Talayban etc etc.

[kumble_rocks]

Indeed I am talking of Hagee and practically none of the news channel did anything about him. Sure you can say Wright was this that and the other but that doesnt explain the silence of the media when it comes to McCain. The fact is Obama is simply beating McCain at his game. An example would be the ovreseas trip. McCain did this almost 2 months back! Went to same countries and registered a clip. Heck he so much as put his foot in the mouth in Iraq when he said how Iran was supplying the predominantly Sunni Al Qaeda, a complete insane argument considering US officials always accept Irani involvment with Shia extremists in Iraq. On the other hand Obama went the same route except his speeches, meetings were well received from Berlin to Baghdad. And why not? The man is the ONLY leading USA Politician till date that can atleast name the countries right - and so Iraq is Iraq and not Ayray, Taliban is Taliban and not Talayban etc etc.

Got to agree. Also I would like to add that McCain went to Hagee seeking his endorsement whereas Obama did not seek Wright's endorsement. And Wright may have spewed some nonsense, but in essence , he is ex-Marine who served his country in honor , something which our Ivory Tower Specialist DR will never claim to achieve. People like DR disgust me . They froth the same BS that right wing media like Fox vomit . They are quick to condemn war veterans like John Kerry , Wright etc but give a free pass to draft dodging Chickenhawks like Cheney , AWOL Bush , Rumsfeld who have caused the death of untold number of civilians in Iraq as well as brave American soldiers all because of Oil . In my opinion their is no difference between brainwashed citizens especially in red states who think that Iraq War was a "noble cause" fought for the freedom of Iraqi people and that if the citizens in Muslim world who blame US for every ill in their life ... only difference is the religious angle that gets brought in the case of Islamic countries..

[Guest dada_rocks]

Indeed I am talking of Hagee and practically none of the news channel did anything about him. Sure you can say Wright was this that and the other but that doesnt explain the silence of the media when it comes to McCain. The fact is Obama is simply beating McCain at his game. An example would be the ovreseas trip. McCain did this almost 2 months back! Went to same countries and registered a clip. Heck he so much as put his foot in the mouth in Iraq when he said how Iran was supplying the predominantly Sunni Al Qaeda, a complete insane argument considering US officials always accept Irani involvment with Shia extremists in Iraq. On the other hand Obama went the same route except his speeches, meetings were well received from Berlin to Baghdad. And why not? The man is the ONLY leading USA Politician till date that can atleast name the countries right - and so Iraq is Iraq and not Ayray, Taliban is Taliban and not Talayban etc etc.

I wud have branded them utter obama lackey if they had done that.. so far I am just calling them Obam's chgeer leader.. Heck if a boimb-blast goes in neighnourhood you don;t expect news channle to remain fixated with some burhalry incidet.. such was the difference of scale........ Moreover I feel they didn't regitser it because otherwise porportionally they would have had to barbecue obama day and night. it was conveneint miss to save obama from being burnt altogether in that Wright's fire.. certainly was no driven by any love for McCain..

[Brainfade]

I tried to stay away from this thread, but I have to add my $0.02: (a) The Iraq war was based on false premises (b) In 2003, Obama's opinion on the war was worth as much as mine - in other words, zilch. © When push has come to shove, Obama has NOT voted against the war - even once. He has votedfor every increased war spending bill. Worse, he voted for the FISA (surveillance) bill a couple of weeks ago. (d) Much as I was opposed to the war, I have to admit that, post-Rumsfeld, the surge has worked in Iraq (credit to Gen. Petreaus and the Bush administration for this). What if complete success takes more than say, um .... 16 months? http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/I/IRAQ_WINNING_THE_WAR?SITE=MABED&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT This is not a foxnews.com conservative opinion. It is real - believe it or not.