Here some real numbers about comparative scenario of terror: psec brothers please notice

[Guest dada_rocks]

http://dailypioneer.com/columnist1.asp?main_variable=Columnist&file_name=kanchan%2Fkanchan189%2Etxt&writer=kanchan I have given you the list of no. of blast and equation was NDA:UPA::6years:4years::4:15 Now some real number on casualty if you have not done the addition from my earlier post.. Excerpt from the article: **************** It is, therefore, not surprising that Mr Singh should accuse BJP leader LK Advani of "sleeping" on his job as Home Minister in the NDA Government even as the barbarians ran amok, causing death and destruction. There's a problem, though, with Mr Singh's assertion. A tally of human lives lost in Islamist terrorist attacks outside Jammu & Kashmir after he became Prime Minister (with Mr Shivraj Patil, who thinks Mohammed Afzal is a lad gone astray and deserves no more than a rap on his knuckles, as his Home Minister) will show that 598 people have died till now, most of them in serial bombings. Many more have been maimed and scarred for the rest of their lives. During the six years when the NDA was in power, and Mr Advani was Home Minister, the corresponding figure was 237. Even the most rudimentary knowledge of arithmetic, as compared to the awesome intellectual prowess of an economist who has served the World Bank, would suggest that terrorist slayings during the NDA years were far less than those during Mr Singh's watch. If we were to add the number of people killed by Maoists, terrorists in Jammu & Kashmir and separatists in the North-East, the total would cross 15,000. With a strike rate of 3,750 lives lost to terrorism of various shades every year, the UPA Government's record is nothing to sneer at. So my assertion that with POTA and without POTA regime does have big gulf in terms of failures of security apparatus in checking the terror blast..

[CC1981]

Bogus journalism. So India has seen more terrorism under MMS...its not like MMS organized it and this type of 'xyz had more terroris attacks under their regime, thus they are incompetent' is obscenely dishonest reporting, for it takes NOTHING into consideration about the upsurge in terrorism. So what MMS regime has seen more terrorist attacks ? It can easily mean that MMS regime happens to coincide with an upsurge in terrorism..whopee ****ing ding.

[The Outsider]

Exclude Kashmir? It is common knowledge that modus operandi of terrorists has changed from attacks concentrated in Kashmir to spread all over India, while the numbers have gone down drastically in Kashmir from 1067 in 2001 to 164 in 2007. If Kashmir is factored in, as it should be being a part of India, just Kashmir in 2001 accounts for twice the number of casualties than the entire time under Congress. Moreover, BJP presided over two of the biggest terrorism fiascoes of recent times - the parliament attack and the Kandahar hijacking. I am not implying that Congress is in any way better in handling security than BJP, but looking at these cooked up numbers is just intellectually dishonest.

[CC1981]

perhaps there is no-one else left to kill as pretty much the entire region is now Green ?

Yeah..coz blowing up the army isnt an option, coz the army is their buddy, right ? And don't use the bogus argument of ' well the army is well protected...how will they hurt the army' kind of logic...if you have one honest bone in your body and you really were honest when you said that your family has links to the army, you'd know that for every 1 soldier, there are 5 non-soldiers in the army, most of whom DO NOT live inside the base 24/7. ( education in the topic will start with investigating the 'tooth and tail ratio') So all of a sudden those guys are all hunky dory with the islamists eh ? it is nothing more than a different approach. There is ZERO difference in demographics of Kashmir in 2007 and 2001...KPs wernt booted in 2001..they were long long before...since there is no demographic shift between the two time-periods Swetabh quoted, your 'no-one left to kill there' argument is, as usual, bull***** and totally in line with your long history of intellectual dishonesty.

[CC1981]

He is taking about "Civilian" casualties ..... and the reason why the "Army" casualties have dropped is because there is simply not that many deployed there as there were during the tense periods surrounding Kargil and its aftermath with the peak reaching somewhere in early 2002.

Do you even know what is the current level of troop deployment in J&K ? Do you even know how many new troops have moved in the area since Daulat Beg Oldi got reopened ? My my...what a thing...your 'i am connected to the army' was yet another bull***** story. Cant say i am surprised. Regardless, as i explained, your 'no one left to kill' argument is a nonsequitur and total nonsense, as there is no demographic difference between J&K circa 2001 and J&K circa 2007. Punto finale! :finger:

[The Outsider]

Wonder why ? ... perhaps there is no-one else left to kill as pretty much the entire region is now Green ? Move some KP's back and then see what happens. Intellectual dishonesty :hysterical:

More attempts at intellectual dishonesty. There has been close to zero change in the demography of Kashmir between 2001 and 2007. More than 90% of Kashmiri Pundits had left by early 90s.

[CC1981]

I think we wont see a straight answer from our self proclaimed 'straight shooter' anytime soon on this thread. :hysterical:

[Guest dada_rocks]

Exclude Kashmir? It is common knowledge that modus operandi of terrorists has changed from attacks concentrated in Kashmir to spread all over India, while the numbers have gone down drastically in Kashmir from 1067 in 2001 to 164 in 2007. If Kashmir is factored in, as it should be being a part of India, just Kashmir in 2001 accounts for twice the number of casualties than the entire time under Congress. Moreover, BJP presided over two of the biggest terrorism fiascoes of recent times - the parliament attack and the Kandahar hijacking. I am not implying that Congress is in any way better in handling security than BJP, but looking at these cooked up numbers is just intellectually dishonest.

Why do you want me to embarras you guys further.. Do u want me to include Kashmir?Naxalism too ..equationis not any better...... Btw these numbers in casualty list include kashmir too, only naxalism has been left out of equation that too to make UPA look little better.. no. of separate incidents count remains at 4:14 without kashmir and even including kashmir equation doesn't change much........Verdict is UPA has brought three to four timeincrease in terror incidents in only four years..

[Guest dada_rocks]

Wonder why ? ... perhaps there is no-one else left to kill as pretty much the entire region is now Green ? Move some KP's back and then see what happens. Intellectual dishonesty :hysterical:

Actually the much feted Omar Abdullah was frothing when a piece of land was given to someshrine board.. just imagine what will happen if pandits claim their properties back........

[Guest dada_rocks]

Yes terro means civilian casualties I though ambush operation on military target has been made kosher method of war since quite some time

[The Outsider]

Why do you want me to embarras you guys further.. Do u want me to include Kashmir?Naxalism too ..equationis not any better...... Btw these numbers in casualty list include kashmir only naxalism has been left out of equation that too to make UPA little better..

They include Kashmir? Here is a quote from your article :

A tally of human lives lost in Islamist terrorist attacks outside Jammu & Kashmir after he became Prime Minister (with Mr Shivraj Patil, who thinks Mohammed Afzal is a lad gone astray and deserves no more than a rap on his knuckles, as his Home Minister) will show that 598 people have died till now, most of them in serial bombings.

When more than 1000 people were killed just in Kashmir in 2001 how can the quoted number of 237 under NDA during their years in power reconcile with your assertion that Kashmir is included?

[Guest dada_rocks]

They include Kashmir? Here is a quote from your article : When more than 1000 people were killed just in Kashmir in 2001 how can the quoted number of 237 under NDA during their years in power reconcile with your assertion that Kashmir is included?

Killing in kashmir has been constant feature that's why my assertion are correct......you may like to believe it has stopepd but it has not every other day 4-5 here and there get gunned down that's how those numbers end up in average of 1000 an year.. ......... No major incidents of serial blast happens in kashmir.. it's continuous killing here and there due to security forces presence and it has continued unabated... as we speak justlast week open battle was on between army and terrorist and that news didn;t even find mention in media it was ahmedabad and banaglore which took most of the media space..

[The Outsider]

Killing in kashmir has been constant feature that's why my assertion are correct......you may like to believe it has stopepd but it has not every other day 4-5 here and there get gunned down that's how those numbers end up in average of 1000 an year.. ......... No major incidents of serial blast happens in kashmir.. it's continuous killing here and there due to security forces presence and it has continued unabated... as we speak justlast week open battle was on between army and terrorist and that news didn;t even find mention in media it was ahmedabad and banaglore a which took most of the media space..

Number of civilians killed in 2001 - 1098 Number of civilians killed in 2007 - 161 So you were saying they average 1000 a year? Or as usual you had no idea what you were blabbering about? http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countries/india/states/jandk/data_sheets/casualtiesmilitency.htm

[CC1981]

.Verdict is UPA has brought three to four timeincrease in terror incidents in only four years..

No, verdict is, you dont understand ABCD of causality or governing criterias. Its like if tomorrow i buy a farm and the day after, a huge locust swarm descends on it, your 'verdict' would be, i am a poor farmer coz my crops got destroyed within 24 hours and the farmer before me was better coz he saved his crops (no locusts), despite the fact that the governing factor is independent of me or him. As usual, illogic is your domain of mastery.

[CC1981]

Like I said move a few Non-Mulsims there and then see what happens .... just a simple act of getting land allocated to temple was met with the usual response.

Hey self-proclaimed 'straight shooter', here is a question for you: You said that terrorism in Kashmir has dropped off from 2001 coz there is no one else left to kill and its a whole green state. You were then informed that it is an illogical argument, because there is practically ZERO demographic difference between Kashmir 2001 and Kashmir 2007. Therefore, your 'no one left to kill and thus drop in Kashmir' explanation is bogus. Will we have a straight-up admission of that ****ed up illogic from you or will you ignore it and run away and shift goal-posts again when cornered ?

[The Outsider]

^Words.....logic......zap....put 2 together with 2......understand....reason........zap.......ughhh!!!!!!:confused_smile:

[Guest dada_rocks]

Number of civilians killed in 2001 - 1098 Number of civilians killed in 2007 - 161 So you were saying they average 1000 a year? Or as usual you had no idea what you were blabbering about? http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countries/india/states/jandk/data_sheets/casualtiesmilitency.htm

May be one lull year ..Wait a minute I will give you total casualty numbers and terror incidents including everythign kashmir naxalism.. I expect you to not run away ... So far u agree on one thing in rest of the country UPA has scene three fold rise in terrorism right or wrong........ kashmir and naxalism comprehensive data still to come.. not this or that year but whole.. You will get the whole picture pretty soon PS: Do consider the 9/11 related stretching of terror workforce in fata region.. Now once taliban is again on ascendancy we have already started seeing the usual ***** even in kashmir..... Security appratus agree on one thing rest of the india is our own home-grown garbage and that he gone up miraculously.. kashmir is mostly driven by foreing mercenaries direct involvement hence relative lull due to over-stretched workforce..

[The Outsider]

Not one year. Here you go : 1999 - 937 2000 - 942 2001 - 1098 2002 - 1050 2003 - 836 2004 - 733 2005 - 556 2006 - 410 2007 - 161 Keep in mind, nowhere have I claimed that UPA government's record on security is a shining beacon or anything. My comments were on the intellectual dishonest methods used by the article to drive forth an agenda. You are the one making the claim that under NDA India was a safer place overall. Fact is with so much corruption and a rotten system overall which government is in power hardly makes a difference to the security of the average Indian. Heck, NDA presided over an attack on the Indian parliament and then could not do anything when a hijacked aircraft was at Amritsar and India had to end up releasing 3 hardened terrorists one of them went on to found Jaish-e-Mohammad, responsile for many more casualties. Again, I am not blaming the NDA govt. exclusively for it. In a corrupt and rotten system like India such things happen no matter who is in power.

[Guest dada_rocks]

Not one year. Here you go : 1999 - 937 2000 - 942 2001 - 1098 2002 - 1050 2003 - 836 2004 - 733 2005 - 556 2006 - 410 2007 - 161 Keep in mind, nowhere have I claimed that UPA government's record on security is a shining beacon or anything. My comments were on the intellectual dishonest methods used by the article to drive forth an agenda. You are the one making the claim that under NDA India was a safer place overall. Fact is with so much corruption and a rotten system overall which government is in power hardly makes a difference to the security of the average Indian. Heck, NDA presided over an attack on the Indian parliament and then could not do anything when a hijacked aircraft was at Amritsar and India had to end up releasing 3 hardened terrorists one of them went on to found Jaish-e-Mohammad, responsile for many more casualties. Again, I am not blaming the NDA govt. exclusively for it. In a corrupt and rotten system like India such things happen no matter who is in power.

Intellectual dishonest that was rich.. you are yet to accept that UPA has seen through three fold increase in rest of the India except kashmir. If oen is willing to not see the obvious truth in it that 's intellectually dishonest.. Your only point is that actually from kashmir soap opera has shifted to the rest of the country.. In a way it reenforces the article's point. Now whole India is burning..... He has without any malice shown rest of India is burning three fold more where is dishonesty in these words it;s duely supported by facts.> he has left out the war zone of north east and kashmir from calculations..

[The Outsider]

Intellectual dishonest that was rich.. you are yet to accept that UPA has seen through three fold increase in rest of the India except kashmir.

What's there to not accept about it? It's obivous and I have stated it earlier as well that the modus operandi of terrorists has changed from focussing on Kashmir and spread out to other places. It has nothing to do with the government in power. If the government in power is so important why could not the NDA stop the parliament attack and why could they not take out a hijacked plane standing on Indian soil before it went to Kandahar and ended up releasing a terrorist who then founded one of the most dreaded organizations in the area, Jaish-e-Mohammad?