CC1981 Posted August 5, 2008 Posted August 5, 2008 ISI provided Pakistan a definite and lasting edge over India, since, per Raman, Indian intelligence agencies during that time were highly mediocre formed with some local CID and ex-Police wallas. This is true. And now that we know about it, can we go around improving our intelligence (i dont need to go on another rant about intelligence- i've already done so recently) or will babudom prevail again ?? But India CAN get a quick-fix in this region if its smart- ISI is a fearsome entity but Mossad is an even bigger one. And everyone knows how little regard Israel has towards Pakistan. If India strikes a bargain, India can massively improve the quality of RAW and other security networks in a few years through Israeli help. I don't think Israel would mind at all teaching us all they know about intelligence agencies- their 'mitzrahim' program has a fearsome reputation worldwide. That will help us not only against Islamo-fascists, it will also help us against the red-terror that is creeping up. We need to quit farting around with expensive tincan toys and start thinking about our intelligence gathering apparatus urgently. BILLIONS of dollars and zillions of manpower needs to go in this field.
punjabi_khota Posted August 5, 2008 Posted August 5, 2008 :omg: I seriously hope you are yanking our chain. http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/aug/05simi.htm
triam Posted August 5, 2008 Posted August 5, 2008 I am always fascinated with a lot of Indian Nationalists hatred towards America, historically yes they have supported Pakistan more, yes, but India did align itself with Russia, and early Indian policies were highly oriented towards socialism etc. And yes a lot of Americans come across as arrogant fools etc, but is there any other reason that Indians hate America, heck even Pakistanis hate America, it is pretty weird. And, I agree with Lurker completely if GB was so good in predicting the future, it and not the US would have been the dominant super power now. It is plainly hilarious, and B.Raman, comes across as a conspiracy nut, just from his rediff and outlook columns.
Lurker Posted August 5, 2008 Posted August 5, 2008 I am always fascinated with a lot of Indian Nationalists hatred towards America, historically yes they have supported Pakistan more, yes, but India did align itself with Russia, and early Indian policies were highly oriented towards socialism etc. And yes a lot of Americans come across as arrogant fools etc, but is there any other reason that Indians hate America, heck even Pakistanis hate America, it is pretty weird. And, I agree with Lurker completely if GB was so good in predicting the future, it and not the US would have been the dominant super power now. It is plainly hilarious, and B.Raman, comes across as a conspiracy nut, just from his rediff and outlook columns. In my opinion Indian Nationalists dont quite hate America, they practically hate every country! You have obviously seen comments regarding Great Britain in this thread. You can also safely assume that these same Indian Nationalists have a huge problem with Russia and China(watch out for word Commies). And their dislike for Communist countries is only exceeded by Islamic countries, as Pakistan and Middle Eastern countries. So to summarise - Western world, Communist Countries, Islamic countries - are a No-No to Indian Nationalists. And that should effectively mean 2/3rd of this world! So what country is liked?? Well Israel. Why Israel? Because they are fighting against the same Islamic countries and standing for "pride". Nevermind the fact that the life of an ordinary Israeli would probably count amongst the worst in the world. Every second day bomb going off, rockets falling. Heck I was once (un)lucky enough to pass by a gate for Israeli Airline and it seemed like Fort Knox, the EL Al has to be the most security overwhelmed Airline in the world. Nothing against people of Israel, but to use it as a model country is far from desirable. xxx
triam Posted August 5, 2008 Posted August 5, 2008 In my opinion Indian Nationalists dont quite hate America, they practically hate every country! You have obviously seen comments regarding Great Britain in this thread. You can also safely assume that these same Indian Nationalists have a huge problem with Russia and China(watch out for word Commies). And their dislike for Communist countries is only exceeded by Islamic countries, as Pakistan and Middle Eastern countries. So to summarise - Western world, Communist Countries, Islamic countries - are a No-No to Indian Nationalists. And that should effectively mean 2/3rd of this world! So what country is liked?? Well Israel. Why Israel? Because they are fighting against the same Islamic countries and standing for "pride". Nevermind the fact that the life of an ordinary Israeli would probably count amongst the worst in the world. Every second day bomb going off, rockets falling. Heck I was once (un)lucky enough to pass by a gate for Israeli Airline and it seemed like Fort Knox, the EL Al has to be the most security overwhelmed Airline in the world. Nothing against people of Israel, but to use it as a model country is far from desirable. xxx This would be extremely funny if it were not so true and so pathetic.
sandtest Posted August 6, 2008 Posted August 6, 2008 If people look outside their perverted leftist view of 'Nationalism" is evil, Nationalists hate evryone and all those regular drivels thing will become very clear. Nationalism means, keeping Interets of Nation above everything, even above religion!! America does exactly same thing, but alas! our NRI ivory tower elites can't see the daylight. America practically, makes sure that their citizens start looking at that country form governments viewpoint which has bad intentions of undermining interests of America!! Look at case of Iran -- Iran is by far more liberal than Saudi Arabia not to mention they have a democratic government. Barring Iranian president nutjob, Iran is way better than any Gulf-Country. Yet American media hates Iran...why?....because they are AGAINST American interests in Gulf country. Iran controls Straight of Hormuz and this is America's main worry along with Iranian president nutjobs hate towards Israel. If tomorrow Iran allows American navy in Bahrain to control crucial Gulf-line passage -- Iran will suddenly become an "ally". Point is if, very powerful countries like America don't give even an inch whne it comes to protecting their "interests" worldwide, why we Indians should succumb to nice sounding talks of leftists journalists, intellectuals. If Britain has done something realy disgusting to harm Indian like suprevising formation and development of ISI we Indians should not feel shy of criticizing it. This is not a consiracy, a link is already given about ISI chief maj. Gen Cowthorne!! How conveniently people here ignored this.
sandtest Posted August 6, 2008 Posted August 6, 2008 This is true. And now that we know about it' date=' can we go around improving our intelligence (i dont need to go on another rant about intelligence- i've already done so recently) or [b']will babudom prevail again ?? babudom has already prevailed Ministries sit on plan to strengthen intelligence agencies New Delhi (PTI): Despite claims by Union Home Ministry about strengthening intelligence mechanism, the situation on the ground seems to be different with the finance ministry sitting on various proposals relating to sleuths and the nodal ministry sitting on a proposal of the CRPF for having a separate intelligence wing. { This was a very good proposal, because CRPF is mainly fighting with Maoists and missionary funded Naxals in tribal areas of India} The Intelligence Bureau had submitted a proposal for setting up Multi Agency Centres in various states with an annual budget of few crores, but it was not agreed to by the Union Finance Ministry which asked IB to generate resources from its existing budget. The much-awaited Multi Agency Centre (MAC), proposed to be the hub for country's counter-terror measures suggested by a Group of Ministers set up to study intelligence reforms in the wake of the Kargil war, was yet to see the light of the day as the Finance ministry put a spoke in the attempt, official sources said. MAC, along with state-level subsidiaries called SMACs, would operate as a national counter-terrorism database, identify operational priorities and build capabilities needed to execute them. The MAC, in turn, was to take inputs from the State-level police-intelligence Joint Task Forces. Till date, the MAC continues to be working a very less staff that too derived out of the Intelligence Bureau with no contribution from any other agency including Army and RAW with no real-time links to state police forces. http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/001200808031966.htm But India CAN get a quick-fix in this region if its smart- ISI is a fearsome entity but Mossad is an even bigger one. And everyone knows how little regard Israel has towards Pakistan. If India strikes a bargain, India can massively improve the quality of RAW and other security networks in a few years through Israeli help. I don't think Israel would mind at all teaching us all they know about intelligence agencies- their 'mitzrahim' program has a fearsome reputation worldwide. This is already being done, but it has it's limitations P.V. Narsimha Rao the ex-PM was the first to get credit for opening India to receive support from Israel. Limitation here is that Mossad can't share intel. with RAW beyond a certian limit, because of Amreeka coming in picture. Mossad has much deeper and older ties with CIA, and CIA is literally father of ISI which can be traced back till British raj. Mossad will never hurt that for India. Unkil has "special" interests in South Asia. mark my words, Unkil will never be bothered becuase of terrorism generated due to ISI that will bleed ONLY India. We have seen this before 9/11. But problem started when Unkils pet dog ISI started chewing the master due to their own hegemonic interests in Afghanistan, Islamic ummah ideology of ISI and their shared border with Afghanistan which are yet not demarcated. All Unkil's cry for gag on ISI is because elements in ISI are bedding with Talibunnies and that is P!ssing off the Unkil. India is alone like any other "Large" non-Nato country in her fight against terror. That is why need to pour funds in counter-terror intelligence and counter-intelligence. Same will be for China if tomorrow Uighur Muslims revolt for seperate state, Unkil will happily oversee that it happnes. Any Big country wants another big country to be thrown into absolute anarchy. It's the responsibility of protectors of that country to make sure the well being of motherland. World is not as straight as liberals want to view it. That will help us not only against Islamo-fascists, it will also help us against the red-terror that is creeping up. Red terror requires some more land reform by Indian government and immediate ban on Christian missionaries operating in tribal areas and pouring foreign money to throw the country in anarchy.
CC1981 Posted August 6, 2008 Posted August 6, 2008 If people look outside their perverted leftist view of 'Nationalism" is evil, Nationalists hate evryone and all those regular drivels thing will become very clear. Nationalism means, keeping Interets of Nation above everything, even above religion!! Nationalism is a stupid concept. Why ? Because there is no such thing as a 'permanent nation' - borders change, they grow and diminish - for every nation through every epoch of history. Why should the interest of the nation be above everything ? For eg, why should the interest of a nation be above the interest of a region ? A region encompasses a bigger area, a bigger diaspora and a bigger population base, signifying a bigger importance to the species. Why should the interest of a nation be over that of people ?? Why is an abstract concept such as a nation more important to you than PEOPLE ??? Why do you care more about INDIA the nation than subcontinentals, the people ?? This is the age of globalisation. This is the day and age where an Indian can work in Europe and its no questions asked, a russian can live in India, no questions asked, etc. The whole world is moving towards being ONE community- hell, in most professional circles, it is one community. Nationalism, like religion or clan-ism and tribalism, is an antiquated and unnatural concept...fast moving into the realm of irrelevance. Nationalism is a tool of the elites and the militaries to divide people and keep them divided- because otherwise these warmongerers would be without a paycheque.
CC1981 Posted August 6, 2008 Posted August 6, 2008 and immediate ban on Christian missionaries operating in tribal areas and pouring foreign money to throw the country in anarchy. Christian missionaries have nothing to do with maoism- they are diametrically opposite ideologies. Its like confusing Bin Laden with a pimp....I believe in survival of the fittest. Why should your concept of God be protected and pandered to over anothers' ? As long as people arnt being killed in the name of God, i have zero problems with religions trying to convert each others' bases. If hinduism needs bans on other religious preachings to survive, it is then a tacit admission from hinduism's part that its ethos are too fragile to exist without extensive panderings.
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