Indian Air Force for the First time in a Major War Excercise with USAF in USA

[CC1981]

sandtest' date=' do you visit BR a lot?[/quote'] I doubt he does. And be careful, he is gonna yell 'google choor' if you mention a website for some ****ed up reason. Anyways, this thread is demonstrative enough of your questions me thinks - i've been visiting BR from a long time ago ( would like to post, but their registration policy is a pain in the *****) and anyone who reads the volumes of top quality information in BR wouldn't be making such basic errors in their claims ( such as Red Flag is possible because commies withdrew interest, first time IAF and USAF are practicing, etc). This is IMO a good opportunity for India, but some of these hinduvtas here have no idea of the bigger picture, as far as military goes. For eg, nomatter how many military toys we get, until our defence industry is home-made, we will have to tippy-toe in the international scene. Basic producer-consumer dynamics dictates this. Currently, as it stands, Russia has a HUGE say in our defence politics, simply because if Russia said 'frack you, all deals are off', we would be owned tomorrow by the Chinese. Simply because a LOT of our parts, high tech stuff ( particularly engines for almost all the Ruski planes barring Su-30MKI. A BRFite should know how terrible our record in making jet engines are) are still Ruski dependent. Hell, without the Ruskis, we can't even make the BRAHMOS as there are 'delays' in transferring some of the coding for its RAMJET engine. Furthermore, Russia is very well aware of the huge leverage it weilds in Indian Defence matters and which in turn, translates to socio-political power for Russia as on some policies, India can be asked to act like proxies or be completely nullified if in dessentive voice. To further its ambitions and control over ID, they are making some excellent offers (atleast, on paper) : for eg, their super-fulcrum is an amazing aircraft...and definitely, if purely technical specs and parts compatability are the issues, it is a runaway winner of the MMRCA. Yet, this is a scenario where acquiring the best offer leaves us in a disadvantage: all it does is increase RUssian hardware in our forces and proportionately, their say in our matters. An Indo-American defence hookup would be a good idea simply from the perspective of laregly neutralizing Russian say in Indian matters but the ball is very much in America's court. Americans, at the end of the day are consumate businessmen and the bottomline almost invariably has been the dollar ( contrast that to Russia/USSR where bottomline is often ideology) and they have quite a poor record of relinquishing control of their hardwares as well as extreme interference on domestic and foreign policy. Yet, if the American beurocracy wanted to create a major power as an offset for China or RUssia, all they'd have to do is offer us full ToT of some of their hallowed (but by their standards, already obsolete) technologies : AEGIS radar or the Kitty Hawk for example. Both would represent a massive qualitative superiority of Indian Armed forces, atleast in its own backyard and might be a conventional arms deterrence for China.

[CC1981]

very timely link to show the daylight to our closet commie sympathisers here. Malabar excercize of 2007 with US brings fresh perspective if looked comparatively with proposed 2008 version. In that 2007 excercise, communists forced Indian government not to send Indian Submarines to participate with US naval submarine fleet of Los Angeles class, which obviously irked USA as they planned for a full fledged war game scenario. come 2008, communists are history and their pro-China blackmailing of Indian government keeping entire nation on ransom to satisfy their Chincommie paymasters has effectively ended and soon if senility prevails in Bengal, they will become history in India by next elections. Now India has decided to participate with full range including Submarines of Indian navy....:giggle: This is going to be one of the most intense naval war games in history of peacetime maneuvors.

:haha::haha::haha: First, the usual rant against Bengal by the hindi-stani. Second, how the eff does that make sense, vatz ? Look up what senility means.

[sandtest]

sandtest' date=' do you visit BR a lot?[/quote'] got fired long back... besides two folks in mailing list are posters there. Not relevant to topic anyway.:giggle:

[sandtest]

I doubt he does. And be careful, he is gonna yell 'google choor' if you mention a website for some ****ed up reason.

No, that's because you have been nailed by DR and gator long back when I was occasionaly visiting Cricket...besides you collect something from here and there and then mis-direct people as your high and mighty gyaan. If you read and learn, that's no probelm, but I doubt spolit egoistic kids like you have any humility left in them. "Vidya vinayen shobhatey" is beyond your brain limits to comprehend.

Anyways, this thread is demonstrative enough of your questions me thinks - i've been visiting BR from a long time ago ( would like to post, but their registration policy is a pain in the *****) and anyone who reads the volumes of top quality information in BR wouldn't be making such basic errors in their claims ( such as Red Flag is possible because commies withdrew interest, first time IAF and USAF are practicing, etc).

NO, it doesnot mean, what BR says is a gospel truth. They specialize in defence equipments and not in politics. besides, it's evident with India's decision to send submarines for excericise that there is no Communist stranglehold so we are FREE, same was not true during Malabar-07, minus submarines -- most important arm of navy in any excericze. Why closet commie sympathisers like you try to ignore this simple news?...why you need another website to convince your pro-commie mind.

This is IMO a good opportunity for India, but some of these hinduvtas here have no idea of the bigger picture, as far as military goes. For eg, nomatter how many military toys we get, until our defence industry is home-made, we will have to tippy-toe in the international scene.

hey, commie moron, what does Hindutva got to do with this. If anything I and any proud Indian wants defence industry to be Indianised...heavy dis-investment of DRDO, HAL, Mazgaon Dock in Mumbai and privatise them. This will not only make those government owned defence manufactureres more competitive, it will get rid of red-tape, babudom which is typical in any government establishment. Moreover, India has to deal with corruption at every stage and it is no different in defence procurements...It is not just fault of one single institution, be it defence or civilian purchase corruption makes system lucrative for Indians. That's the reason why defence establishment as well as politicians don't want Indian defence industry to be fully Indianised as it will eliminate their "cut" which they get through so called "foreign" purchase. There has been enough news about Arjun tanks and besides it's superiority against T-90, Army is still ordering hundreds of T90s simply because a government organization like DRDO and Arms manufacturing facories of GOI can't pay them "cut". Privatise it and we will see that same tank is getting orders in hundreds because they have "outbidded" their Russian, French or American counterparts even in corruption...:--D And yeah, btw...Hindutva Rocks!!:yay::giggle:

Basic producer-consumer dynamics dictates this. Currently, as it stands, Russia has a HUGE say in our defence politics, simply because if Russia said 'frack you, all deals are off', we would be owned tomorrow by the Chinese. Simply because a LOT of our parts, high tech stuff ( particularly engines for almost all the Ruski planes barring Su-30MKI. A BRFite should know how terrible our record in making jet engines are) are still Ruski dependent. Hell, without the Ruskis, we can't even make the BRAHMOS as there are 'delays' in transferring some of the coding for its RAMJET engine.

And Russia is justified IMHO...why we don't want to realize the fact that, the day Russia will transfer a critical and core technology like how to manufacture a Ramjet engine and it's breathers, to a country like India it can kiss goodbye to all it's future Purchase and sale not only to India but any country for cruise missiles, simply because India has everything, from composite casing, to warhead to homing guidance to proximity fuses, with her..all she needs is a Ramjet engine to manufacture any variant of Brahmos and it's future versions in much cheaper rate and make Russian Missile industry redundant. Try to understand the business first...Ramjet Engines or any Engine for that matter require lot's of R&D and basic research investement....they are sort of your "intellectual property"....you don't give them away just as freebie. Russia might transfer Ramjet technology in future, only when they know that it won't be duplicated by Brahmos Aerospace through written agreements or commitments to continue in JOINT VENTURE.

Furthermore, Russia is very well aware of the huge leverage it weilds in Indian Defence matters and which in turn, translates to socio-political power for Russia as on some policies, India can be asked to act like proxies or be completely nullified if in dessentive voice.

Only one thing can solve this in future -- Indianize, support home grown industry.

To further its ambitions and control over ID, they are making some excellent offers (atleast, on paper) : for eg, their super-fulcrum is an amazing aircraft...and definitely, if purely technical specs and parts compatability are the issues, it is a runaway winner of the MMRCA.

hardly it's a good aircraft, except for acrobatic display and air-shows. Even if Russia transfers it's Zhuk Radar,(I doubt with MiG-35), it will still not be superior to what we already have in the form of Israeli Elta radars. That is why we should try everything we can to appease US, the day we get our hands on AESA APG radar of F/A 18s, it will become a significant boost to India for it will go perfectly well with India's ambitions of Net-Centric warfare. (Read new Cold-Start war doctrine of India) Russia lags behind in radars and avionics not only with US but also with Israel, French etc. and there is simply no hope for Russians to close the gap in future in the field of radars.

Yet, this is a scenario where acquiring the best offer leaves us in a disadvantage: all it does is increase RUssian hardware in our forces and proportionately, their say in our matters.

Russia doesnot have best stuff in aircraft simply because modern day warfare is not about acrobatic display and breathtaking maneuvors in air for public show....It is all about radars and avionics and who watches the traget FISRT and engages. By the time high and shiny Su-35 of Russia does maneuvors it will become toast because a superior BVR like AIM-Sidewinder with superior radar like AESA has already zeroed-in and launched from an inferior F/A 18.....point is Aircrafty plays only 50% in modern times, rest is avionics and radars and net-centric command and control located at ground bases. have worked at Airbase infrastructure so know something about how important ground based communication is!!

An Indo-American defence hookup would be a good idea simply from the perspective of laregly neutralizing Russian say in Indian matters but the ball is very much in America's court.

Only if India can negotiate a tech transfer to certain degree (which I am sure they can with lure of money to amreekan companies in business return or joint venture) then only partnership with amreekan is good or else it will be worse than Russia. Democrats (god forbid if they are elected) are known and have worst record for strings attached and morality lectures with any tech. co-operation.

Yet, if the American beurocracy wanted to create a major power as an offset for China or RUssia, all they'd have to do is offer us full ToT of some of their hallowed (but by their standards, already obsolete) technologies : AEGIS radar or the Kitty Hawk for example. Both would represent a massive qualitative superiority of Indian Armed forces, atleast in its own backyard and might be a conventional arms deterrence for China.

IMPOSSIBLE for India to dream for a radar like Aegis from USA for her navy...simply because even Israel can't get their hands on it...we have to contend with Barak and it's future variants. Only solutution is invest heavily in R&D of these radars...BUT FIRST increase the salary of scientists and engineers who are leaving Indian defence industry and moving to west. We already have ground based good radars like Rajendra and Rohini developed by DRDO, that means basic reasearch and knowledge exists, only we need to take it one step further every year...but perhaps this is too much to expect from babus of GOI.

[sandtest]

:haha::haha::haha: First, the usual rant against Bengal by the hindi-stani. Second, how the eff does that make sense, vatz ? Look up what senility means.

Whatever, the point is the day bengalis will realize and throw out communists from their last remaining fort i.e. Bengal in elections, it will benefit not only Bengal but whole India. Afterall this is the same Bengal where Indian greats like Swami Vivekananda and Sri Aurobindo were born....surprisingly, bengal became so differnet in last 100 years, it only confirms that rabid Communist disease has all ability to destroy rational and civilized thinking of masses and present day bengal is a bright example to this.

[CC1981]

No, that's because you have been nailed by DR and gator long back when I was occasionaly visiting Cricket

Sonny, you are too much of a newbie here to comprehend much of the issues - like i said, try not to comment on stuff that you wernt around for.

besides you collect something from here and there and then mis-direct people as your high and mighty gyaan.

Vatz, i've always said 'ask and ye shall recieve'. This is a messageboard, not a thesis-room. I provide references when required - which i did in this thread to show what kinda propaganda you peddle.

If you read and learn, that's no probelm, but I doubt spolit egoistic kids like you have any humility left in them. "Vidya vinayen shobhatey" is beyond your brain limits to comprehend.

A blatant propagandist who's been caught lying and peddling hinduvta boolsheet is accusing me of lack of humility, eh ? bwahahahahaha...sonny, practice what you preach first.

They specialize in defence equipments and not in politics.

False.

most important arm of navy in any excericze.

False yet again. The most important arm of any navy is the A/C fleet.

Why closet commie sympathisers like you try to ignore this simple news?...why you need another website to convince your pro-commie mind.

There you go again with your dishonest propaganda boolsheet...calling people commie coz they disagree with you..i have never voted commie, never will vote commie, have zero regard for Marx,Lenin,Stalin or Mao...nothing i've said is in commie booklet...so how the eff am i a commie, champ ?!? You hinduvtas are too trigger-happy with labelling others.

There has been enough news about Arjun tanks and besides it's superiority against T-90, Army is still ordering hundreds of T90s simply because a government organization like DRDO and Arms manufacturing facories of GOI can't pay them "cut".

Err no, its because the T-90 is still a proven model and the Arjun had several shortcommings in the DRDO sponsored show-offs. When DRDO makes such a gaffe as forgetting to including target-seeking programs in its demo, the army has no choice but to give DRDO the pink slip for its incompetence.

Hindutva Rocks!!

Hinduvta rocks just as much as Islamism/Darool-Islam rocks, Evangelism rocks or Kingdom of Christ rocks... You lot are ALL in the same boat of God/morality peddling psychopaths hellbent on controlling society in names of false Gods and re-written history.

Even if Russia transfers it's Zhuk Radar,(I doubt with MiG-35), it will still not be superior to what we already have in the form of Israeli Elta radars.

Hey idiot, there is more to an aircraft than a RADAR...and stock RADAR from ANY supplier is irrelevant to India other than AESA, because of ELTA in our posession.

That is why we should try everything we can to appease US, the day we get our hands on AESA APG radar of F/A 18s, it will become a significant boost to India for it will go perfectly well with India's ambitions of Net-Centric warfare. (Read new Cold-Start war doctrine of India)

Acquiring AESA would mean diddly squat if it isnt full ToT.

and there is simply no hope for Russians to close the gap in future in the field of radars.

You know even less than i thought, then.

It is all about radars and avionics and who watches the traget FISRT and engages.

And clueless morons like you will never understand that RADARS and AVIONICS are continuously developed, swapped in and out several times through an aircraft's lifecycle. The primary requirement for ANY aircraft procurement is the quality/performance of the airframes, its serviceability and cost and what kind of engine it comes with since India sux at making engines.

Democrats (god forbid if they are elected) are known and have worst record for strings attached and morality lectures with any tech. co-operation.

More typical hinduvta boolsheet propaganda...when it comes to ToT, there is no difference between democrats and republicans.

Only solutution is invest heavily in R&D of these radars...

Simply throwing money at a project doesnt ensure its success...India simply doesnt have the knowhow or brainpower in RADAR department to come up with a competetive unit. I've worked with RADAR/satellite communications for 4 years and its astounding how little the Indians know in this field...my knowledge is highly competetive by Indian standards, yet i am little more than a novice here.

Whatever, the point is the day bengalis will realize and throw out communists from their last remaining fort i.e. Bengal in elections, it will benefit not only Bengal but whole India.

Perhaps...but hinduvta would be far worse for Bengal than the Commies and Trinamool congress is a joke. In bengali politics, commies are still the best option. We Bengalis arnt religion-obsessed like you hindistanis ' ramjanmabhoomi/krishnajanmabhoomi' worshipping retards...so your standard BJP-anti-secular-bhagwaa brigade has zero chance of establishing a strong foothold in Bengal.

surprisingly, bengal became so differnet in last 100 years, it only confirms that rabid Communist disease has all ability to destroy rational and civilized thinking of masses and present day bengal is a bright example to this.

The same 'present day Bengal' is outperforming your pyaare UP in practically every field. Don't patronize us, vatz...you have a nation today because of we Bengalis. You have a government today because we bengalis learnt how to run a government from the Brits. You have freedom today because we Bengalis lit the powderkeg known as independence movement. We already conceded enough by agreeing to learn your mothertongue as national language. Like i said, keep patronizing us further and we Bongs will seperate one day ( we started the fight against much more ruthless Brits...you hindistanis wont stand a chance when we deciede we've have enough of your hindistani religious-psychosis boolsheet.) and take the entire north-east with us.

[sandtest]

Sonny, you are too much of a newbie here to comprehend much of the issues - like i said, try not to comment on stuff that you wernt around for.

LOL, you are newbie, you know nothing, I am the oldest and best-- that's what the kind of logic you peddle, no different than a self obssessed paki...fact that your great knaawlidge was known to them and Gator even had a signature for this :hysterical:.. Btw..where is Gator, never seen him since long...may be he can make you aware about your past glory.. forget that and just recall your claim for Kalki in Vedas, if you like to remmeber your past ch*utiyaaphas :giggle: and later DR said the moment he searched for Kalki in Vedas all he could find is Islamists Zakir Naik type propaganda, which obviously you bought and presented as some Gyaan here. :hysterical:

Vatz, i've always said.

How old are you, betwaa?...calling every second person here as Vatz...let us all know your age now?:giggle:

False yet again. The most important arm of any navy is the A/C fleet.

Just elaborate....nice try with one liner eh? btw...what I meant previously is any large scale excercize without involvement of Submarines, is just not enough -- simple as that. Submarines are vital and packs crucial punch for any navy. Point is -- 2007, excercize was lacking submarine participation due to commie armtwisting of GOI, while 2008 version is free to include them since now commies are history.

There you go again with your dishonest propaganda boolsheet...calling people commie coz they disagree with you..i have never voted commie, never will vote commie, have zero regard for Marx,Lenin,Stalin or Mao...nothing i've said is in commie booklet...so how the eff am i a commie, champ ?!? You hinduvtas are too trigger-happy with labelling others.

Your various past anti-India rants and trigger happy for seccesion from India indicate that YOU ARE A CLOSET COMMIE. plain and simple.

Err no, its because the T-90 is still a proven model and the Arjun had several shortcommings in the DRDO sponsored show-offs. When DRDO makes such a gaffe as forgetting to including target-seeking programs in its demo, the army has no choice but to give DRDO the pink slip for its incompetence.

Point is simple which many Indians missed. After rectifying initial glitches -- DRDO specifically and very clearly challenged -- let's carry out a trial of Arjun Vs T-90. and see who can hold the gorund on it's own? Now why Army did shy away from this?? Army has hundreds of T90 in their inventory, they can surely spare one to see who is boss in actual one--to-one combat. fact that Army knows very well, that T90 can't even sustain a single heavy fire from Arjun, simply because T90s armor is weak. On contrary Arjun's has indian made Kanchan armor which can sustain at least a shot (except a top attack homing anti-tank missile) Arjun provides far more chances of crew survival than a T90 in combat. Not to mention T90 has space problems for crew comfort and airconditioning which NOW they are trying to rectify. Well, agreed there are some problems with Arjun, but note that this is India's relaticvely new attempt in developing a futuristic main battle tank ...even M1 Abrams and Merkava received complaints from their respective army commanders in Iraq and Labnon, but point is they are not rejected outright in favor a "foreign" tank. Moreover, Arjun is Indian product, it must receive more support and sympathy from army than them supporting foreign stuff. That means, Surely, money is playing a great role here. Russians are known for corruption. They easily bribed ministry and top army brass to favor T90. Being an Indian my concern is not just corruption, but because of this, domestic programm is really hurt badly and it is not good for countries future....since those revenue generated due to sale of Arjuns could have easily been invested by DRDO in developing second version of Arjun. Anyway, here is an old news where India's minister himself admitting possibility of "sabotage" during Arjun trial.

Possibility of sabotage” during Arjun tank trials New Delhi: The government on Thursday spoke of the “possibility of sabotage” during the recent winter trials of Arjun tanks and this prompted Army Chief General Deepak Kapoor and other top officials to rush to the Avadi tank factory near Chennai to carry out fresh inspections. Minister of State for Defence Production Rao Inderjit Singh told reporters that the possibility of sabotage should be examined. He said though the German engines in the tanks were used for over 15 years, it should be examined how they broke down during the winter trials. “How can this happen all of a sudden?” he wondered Eight years after placing an order for 124 tanks with the Ordinance Factory Board, the Army told the Parliamentary Standing Committee on Defence that the tanks had “fared very badly.” Army officers told the committee that the tanks were miles away from meeting the Army’s requirement and there was need for several improvements before they could be declared battle-worthy. — PTI

Hinduvta rocks just as much as Islamism/Darool-Islam rocks, Evangelism rocks or Kingdom of Christ rocks... You lot are ALL in the same boat of God/morality peddling psychopaths hellbent on controlling society in names of false Gods and re-written history.

Shows your ignorance and commie driven knowledge of Hindutva. It is anything but Islamism and Evangelicalism....It is reactionaryto those fascist forces. Try to read the history if you can and comprehend when Hindu Mahasabha and later RSS were formed...was it before Muslim League? let the threat of totalitarian ideologies like Islamism be eliminated and Hindutva will be no more required, automatically it will cease to exist like before.

Hey idiot, there is more to an aircraft than a RADAR...and stock RADAR from ANY supplier is irrelevant to India other than AESA, because of ELTA in our posession.

I doubt you have even seen any fighter jet from close proximity, forget radar for a moment.

Acquiring AESA would mean diddly squat if it isnt full ToT.

It will definately mean something in terms of foundation and understanding net-centric warfare. We already have basics of radar technology like India's attempt to manufacture indian version of AWAC. Look at history, Even we were not having a technology transfer for Nuclear reactors and nuclear submarines, but by taking Akulas on rental basis we not only developed an understanding for Nuclear Subs but today we are just a few steps away from building our own Nuclear submarine and Nuclear reactor small enough to fit in a sub. Go figure! Same for cryogenic engines and missile defence system.

The primary requirement for ANY aircraft procurement is the quality/performance of the airframes, its serviceability and cost and what kind of engine it comes with since India sux at making engines.

haha haa, even if your airframe argument is taken, even then Mig-35 sucks. Because it has the same old airframe of Mig-29..:hysterical: More reasons for Rafale to be selected IMO or if we go for old airframe then a proven AESA platform like F/A18.

Like i said, keep patronizing us further and we Bongs will seperate one day ( we started the fight against much more ruthless Brits...you hindistanis wont stand a chance when we deciede we've have enough of your hindistani religious-psychosis boolsheet.) and take the entire north-east with us.

Trigger happy closet commie peddling seccessionist sentiments at drop of hat...why I am even bothered to reply this moron. rest in peace you commie scum....as an Indian it's a disgrace to entertain a thankless NRI commie like you who peddles seccesion at any moment....can't take your secessionist rant anymore, it's a disgrace!

[CC1981]

LOL, you are newbie, you know nothing, I am the oldest and best-- that's what the kind of logic you peddle, no different than a self obssessed paki...fact that your great knaawlidge was known to them and Gator even had a signature for this .. Btw..where is Gator, never seen him since long...may be he can make you aware about your past glory..

Well..you ARE a newbie and i am one of the original members here...those who joined up initially go back a long way...shows the disingeneousness and dishonesty typical of hinduvtas to talk about events you were not privy to yourself.

How old are you, betwaa?...calling every second person here as Vatz...let us all know your age now?

Age is irrelevant to gyaan, vatz.

Just elaborate....nice try with one liner eh?

Had you any knowledge of the armed forces, you'd not ask for elaboration of the one-liner. EVERY naval warfare doctrine dictates the aircraft carrier squadron to be the FULCRUM of operations. NATO nations consider it an automatic act of war if you blow up their A/C..such exclusive protection status is not given to ANY other vessel in the armed forces. Enough said, vatz.

Your various past anti-India rants and trigger happy for seccesion from India indicate that YOU ARE A CLOSET COMMIE. plain and simple.

There is nothing anti-India that i've said. As for secessionism, it is not the sole domain of the commies. Many here supported secession of QUebec but commies are practically non-existent in Canad. As i said vatz, you hinduvtas are too trigger-happy with slandering others.

Well, agreed there are some problems with Arjun, but note that this is India's relaticvely new attempt in developing a futuristic main battle tank ...even M1 Abrams and Merkava received complaints from their respective army commanders in Iraq and Labnon, but point is they are not rejected outright in favor a "foreign" tank.

Vatz, you understand very little about life-cycle dynamics. When M1 and Merkava were introduced, they were TOP OF THE LINE stuff, expected to have long service lives (which they've subsequently fulfilled). Arjun comes at a time when the next generation MBT is already in design phases with the leading armies, plus Arjun doesnt present a huge qualitative jump over current tanks in service as the next gen. tank would. As such, it makes no sense to buy a vehicle you expect to run for less than 10 years before a newer model takes over. The T-90 is far more combat tested than the Arjun, having seen real combat and having excellent record in all the missions its participated. Plus its cheaper to produce than the Arjun. The army is very much open to a second generation Arjun, which would satisfy the next gen MBT requirements. But as of now, it is akin to buying a brand new car which you are expecting to phase out in 7-10 years. That is the singular biggest reason why the Arjun was shot down and rightly so.

It is anything but Islamism and Evangelicalism....It is reactionaryto those fascist forces.

Boolsheet. Reactionary is the battle cry of every single hitler (where Hitler too used the WWI 'reactionary' boolsheet to justify his Liebenstraum).

I doubt you have even seen any fighter jet from close proximity, forget radar for a moment.

Your doubts are unfounded, vatz. I've lived in close proximity to a warzone and seen 100s of aircrafts on daily basis for weeks on end during the course of that event.

even if your airframe argument is taken, even then Mig-35 sucks. Because it has the same old airframe of Mig-29.

Vatz, the superFulcrum is the best airframe + engine combo in the MMRCA bid.

Trigger happy closet commie peddling seccessionist sentiments at drop of hat

Well DUH....the answer to any form of racism and discrimination IS to chart our seperate ways. Given how racist your comments have been and your singular badminded comments against us Bengalis, it'd be logical for us to want to seperate if morons like you proliferate in the hindistani belt. The best you hinduvtas can do is commit intellectual dishonesty by paintnig anyone who disagrees with you as commie - even when it is abundantly clear that the said someone has ZERO commonality with the fundamentals of communist ideology.

[Kohum]

http://specials.rediff.com/news/2008/aug/27sd1.htm Here are some photos of the same excercise being discussed

[Guest dada_rocks]

Sandy you are still engaging Ponga Pandit.. leave him alone yaar with his fantastical fantassies..why give importance to sampes like these...

[Willow_on_fire]

seems like a warzone here...Sandtest Vs CC1981...:-D