Gillchrist: Murali is a chucker

[yoda]

More garbage from "Saint" Gilly.

[Guest HariSampath]

I partially agree with Lurks in the sense I would like to read biographies/autobiographies to get an idea of what players say about their playing years, incidents, anecdotes, opinions about other players etc. That's fair game, and I certainly wouldn't be interested in Sachin saying "how to play a cover drive", thats boring stuff. But the truth is I have found other cricket books and non cricketing authors write far more interesting things on cricket than players do. In many case, much of the players' books would be ghost written anyway, or co-authored. But certainly there are small things in autobiographies which you wouldnt have known unless the players write about it. I have read all of Gavaskar's books, and one particular statement by him in his second book "Runs n Ruins", enormously increased my respect for him as a human being and a star batter, which is why I consider him perhaps the greatest Indian cricketer ever. On reaching 10,000 runs, he had written about the moment , and also later spoken about it, I may not have it exactly or in order, but I remember fairly well " I thought about all the fans over the years who had cheered me along, patiently bearing with my failures. I thought about all the problems and travails they would have faced in their own lives as they cheered my achievements, the achievements they themselves would have had, the disappointments they may have faced in their lives as I moved towards this moment, I may not have been with them during all that , but they have remained with me throughout. I hope that my record was in some small way a thank you to them" , I think that was approximately what he wrote, and indeed what he had said at that time too. Now, very rarely do we see super star cricketers remember their fans during big moments, mostly they all remember only close family members, perhaps team mates, coaches etc but very rarely do we even have a top star think , during their supreme moment, not just of their fans, but spare a thought for what all the fans must have gone through over the years as they gave their support and dedicate their achievement itself to fans. This is a very large and noble human gesture, and it is only in autobiographies we get to know such things.

[Lurker]

That's your opinion' date=' [b']but I'm an Indian fan and I won't be buying this book regardless of what it says about any one player. That kind of personal opinion and sensationalism is seen enough in the media and print. I don't need an ex cricketer to tell me what to think about SRT, Sharma, Laxman or any other player. I can make up my own informed opinion by reading interviews and watching their attitude/actions on the field.

Keep your zingoism to yourself Hari. This has nothing to do with INDIA so no reason to qualify yourself as an Indian fan or what have you. I am much an Indian fan as the other guy but not a zingoist. As for ex-cricketer telling you about SRT/Laxman etc etc, who here made that argument?? Certainly not me. It is always interesting to read what peers think of players, that by no means defines what a fan thinks of a player. Hey Richie Benaud did not include Wasim Akram in his list of 33 greatest players ever, that doesnt change my opinion of Akram as such. And yes it was awesome to see Benaud's XI. The two things can be mutually exclusive you know. xxx

[Donny]

Just not so, Hari. When do you hear a speech, after a match, by a player when they DON'T thank the fans ?

[Guest HariSampath]

Not always Donny...and I meant a little more than merely thanking fans. I meant , when a top cricketer, who at the time of his greatest achievements, at the very moment, looks around the stadium at 80,000 fans, and goes like " oh, what these guys must have gone through in their lives as they cheered me towards this"...this is a whole lot different than saying at the presentation ceremony " my family, my wife who has been most supportive, my children, my team mates, and all my fans"....you know what I mean...

[Guest HariSampath]

Keep your zingoism to yourself Hari. This has nothing to do with INDIA so no reason to qualify yourself as an Indian fan or what have you. I am much an Indian fan as the other guy but not a zingoist. As for ex-cricketer telling you about SRT/Laxman etc etc, who here made that argument?? Certainly not me. It is always interesting to read what peers think of players, that by no means defines what a fan thinks of a player. Hey Richie Benaud did not include Wasim Akram in his list of 33 greatest players ever, that doesnt change my opinion of Akram as such. And yes it was awesome to see Benaud's XI. The two things can be mutually exclusive you know. xxx

Read who posts what Lurks, old boy :giggle:

[flamy]

bah, with the way each of his chapters are coming online, I don't think there'll be much left in the book. I'm getting tired of this.

[Fontaine]

Keep your zingoism to yourself Hari. This has nothing to do with INDIA so no reason to qualify yourself as an Indian fan or what have you. I am much an Indian fan as the other guy but not a zingoist. As for ex-cricketer telling you about SRT/Laxman etc etc, who here made that argument?? Certainly not me. It is always interesting to read what peers think of players, that by no means defines what a fan thinks of a player. Hey Richie Benaud did not include Wasim Akram in his list of 33 greatest players ever, that doesnt change my opinion of Akram as such. And yes it was awesome to see Benaud's XI. The two things can be mutually exclusive you know. xxx

Relax, my comment wasn't so much directed at you but in response to you saying that Indian fans would look at Gilchrist's books to find out who he thinks is better Sachin or Lara. That is all. I think you took it the wrong way and that wasn't my intention man.

[Lurker]

^^ Oops look like I did get it all wrong. For starters it was not Hari, then apparently you meant something else and I also twisted jingoism to zingoism. 'suppose this only adds to the spice of the book now :winky:

[CC1981]

By being honest ?

Not honest, by being a retard. We've been through this - Murali's action is no more/no less suspect scientifically than McGrath's. And given that i know what i am talking about on this topic, i look forward to re-educating you on this issue again.

By stating what other people haven't got the guts to say ?

Its not a question of guts, its a question of intellect - clearly, Gilly is proving himself deficient in that regard.

Or, in this case, what many pundits, players, commentators etc. have already said.

Utterly irrelevant. Pundits, players and commentators arnt authority on science or optical illusions. In a court of law, my word ( me being a no-name non celebrity) has far higher credibility than your so-called legions of players, pundits and commentators on this issue - simply because science vindicates Murali. But its a pity that all these so-called players, commentators and pundits who have created a ruckus are illiterate buffons when it comes to science. You'd also find it interesting that those few players who DO have a solid backing in science ( i know of Kumble and Srinath) havn't uttered a word against Murali - maybe because they understand the issue unlike retard Gilly...just food for thought , eh ?

[Fontaine]

The problem that I have with Gilchrist's comments aren't what he said exactly, everybody is entitled to their opinion especially if they are facing such a bowler, but they way he said it. Look, if you feel strongly about something that isn't right and clearly Gilchrist feels strongly about it because he uses words like "horse crap", "rubbish", "absurd" then as a professional in a professional sport with proper rules and regulations follow the right channels to make an official complaint! There's no point complaining, and moaning about it afterwards, months or years later. If you feel that it's wrong then lodge a complaint, put your money where your mouth is and let someone with the facilities, knowledge and experience sort out the matter. If you remain quite and then later come out with a tell all account in a book that serves your own purpose then you come off looking like a drama queen. Especially Gilchrist who's made it pretty clear that he plays by certain rules. Well it just looks like he's breaking his own rules by doing this now rather than being honest and upfront about it while he was a cricketer.

[bunny]

Not honest, by being a retard. We've been through this - Murali's action is no more/no less suspect scientifically than McGrath's. And given that i know what i am talking about on this topic, i look forward to re-educating you on this issue again. Its not a question of guts, its a question of intellect - clearly, Gilly is proving himself deficient in that regard. Utterly irrelevant. Pundits, players and commentators arnt authority on science or optical illusions. In a court of law, my word ( me being a no-name non celebrity) has far higher credibility than your so-called legions of players, pundits and commentators on this issue - simply because science vindicates Murali. But its a pity that all these so-called players, commentators and pundits who have created a ruckus are illiterate buffons when it comes to science. You'd also find it interesting that those few players who DO have a solid backing in science ( i know of Kumble and Srinath) havn't uttered a word against Murali - maybe because they understand the issue unlike retard Gilly...just food for thought , eh ?

Agree to that. Except that Murali's doosra was much more suspect than his regular offspinner. The doosra was banned as well.

[Lurker]

Look, if you feel strongly about something that isn't right and clearly Gilchrist feels strongly about it because he uses words like "horse crap", "rubbish", "absurd" then as a professional in a professional sport with proper rules and regulations follow the right channels to make an official complaint!

On the contrary. I can totally understand why Gilchrist would not raise any hue and cry while he was playing. Even not taking into consideration the fact that players are bound by code of moral conducts etc etc the simple truth is that cricketers of modern era have extremely less integrity. When Benaud found out that his bowler Ian McKiff was accused of chucking he sent him back home(in mid Aus-Pakistan series if I remember correctly). When Murali was accused of chucking, Ranatunga led his team off the field! Do you see the difference between the two characters? And do I need to explain how fiercly Sri Lankan, heck even Indians and Pakistanis, fell head over heels in love with Ranatunga for standing behind his "boys"? Look around and you see how these days integrity has taken a back seat. Umpires are not "appealed" but heavily scrutinized and in certain cases downright molested. Players, like Gilly, who spent an entire career walking are scoffed at by even his own team members, and when for a small percentage of their career that he did not walk, he is deemed as a "cheater" by fans of opposing countries. In a nutshell Gilly can not, and should not, be considered a harbinger of integrity in a cricketing world that is becoming murkier by the day. He was selective in picking his battles and yes it makes total sense. xxx

[King Tendulkar]

Gilly is a knob His criticism of Sachin, Bhaji, Ganguly and now Murali points to him being on same wave length as nazi Broad. Where is the criticism of aussies etc? Slags of all those legends above while praises journey man Haddin. They guy is nuts and is long way from being canonised IMO

[King Tendulkar]

. I am much an Indian fan as the other guy..

How did you type that with a straight face:hysterical:

[Fontaine]

On the contrary. I can totally understand why Gilchrist would not raise any hue and cry while he was playing. Even not taking into consideration the fact that players are bound by code of moral conducts etc etc the simple truth is that cricketers of modern era have extremely less integrity. When Benaud found out that his bowler Ian McKiff was accused of chucking he sent him back home(in mid Aus-Pakistan series if I remember correctly). When Murali was accused of chucking, Ranatunga led his team off the field! Do you see the difference between the two characters? And do I need to explain how fiercly Sri Lankan, heck even Indians and Pakistanis, fell head over heels in love with Ranatunga for standing behind his "boys"? Look around and you see how these days integrity has taken a back seat. Umpires are not "appealed" but heavily scrutinized and in certain cases downright molested. Players, like Gilly, who spent an entire career walking are scoffed at by even his own team members, and when for a small percentage of their career that he did not walk, he is deemed as a "cheater" by fans of opposing countries. In a nutshell Gilly can not, and should not, be considered a harbinger of integrity in a cricketing world that is becoming murkier by the day. He was selective in picking his battles and yes it makes total sense. xxx

I think you're over complicating the issue. Case in point Mitchell Johnson in one over went down the track and mouthed off to Laxman on three different occasions. Instead of making a big deal about it, Laxman calmly spoke to the umpire about it who then immediately corrected both Johnson and Ponting. Since then Laxman has said nothing to the media about this (as far as I know) and it's the end of it. Simple, straightforward and to the point. It's all about common sense. The point is players don't need to get into a verbal confrontation about most things. It can be resolved on the spot by speaking with the umpires of making a complaint if you feel strongly about it to the ICC/Match referee etc.

[Lurker]

Case in point Mitchell Johnson in over went down the track and mouthed off to Laxman on three different occasions. Instead of making a big deal about it, Laxman calmly spoke to the umpire about it who then immediately corrected both Johnson and Ponting. Since then Laxman has said nothing to the media about this (as far as I know) and it's the end of it.

Wrong analogy Fontaine. Johnson-Laxman issue was that of mid-pitch sledging. It had little to do with Johnson's action. I am sure Gilchrist has encountered a ton of sledges in his career and not every little one of them made in this book. The issue in question here is Murali's action, and not some random sledging. And yes considering Murali has taken 700 wickets plus, including about 150-200 by doosra a blantant chuck, changed many a test/loi results, finished many batsmen's career - it is a very different analogy to an over of sledge between Laxman-Johnson. xxx

[CC1981]

Agree to that. Except that Murali's doosra was much more suspect than his regular offspinner. The doosra was banned as well.

Irrelevant. Simply because he wasnt the only one with that kind of flexion. Irrelevant because the difference between Murali's doosra and McGrath's regular delivery is 3-4 degrees where the margin of error for the study is 1-3 degrees. Basic error analysis dictates that if your margin of error overlaps the difference in two observed values, there can be no judgement on which of the two values are more/less correct. Ie, logically ans scientifically speaking, If A = 25 and B = 27 and the measuring tool you are using has a precision error of +/- 4, then A = B.

[Guest HariSampath]

^^ Oops look like I did get it all wrong. For starters it was not Hari' date= then apparently you meant something else and I also twisted jingoism to zingoism. 'suppose this only adds to the spice of the book now :winky:

Lurks...old chap...how can you , of all people accuse me of jingoism, when I am probably one of the best appreciators of overseas cricketers and teams , on this board ..AND you have known it since day 1 on ICF for me :giggle: And especially ...now that you are almost my personal fitness training consultant ( I will get back to you..soon ..promise , and start whatever routine you suggest ...just dont take it out on ICF :--D )

[bharat297]

I must say when Gilly decided to write this book ... I think he decided he was gonna destroy his image forever. You have to hand it to the publicists and journos though for pulling out one extract each week just to keep the publicity for this book going longer.