Pakistani Connection

[graphic23]

Well i believe my reply was clear enough to comprehend that' date=' but well i will make it more clear....No I don't. I will say it again, terrorists are not only in our country, they are in yours too, and stop imagining that all terrorist in your country[b'] come on boats from Pakistan. India is not an angel country.

No, they come by land and by air too. The simple truth is 99% of the terror attacks that have occurred in India in the past 61 years of my country's independence, your country is responsible. You want to deny that ?

[Chandan]

Has Pakistan blundered again? Well I'm not saying this! Just read this article: Pakistan has blundered once again K. Subrahmanyam November 30, 2008 IT will take quite some time to piece together all evidence on the Pakistani commando penetration into Mumbai and their devastating attacks on the two five- star hotels and a Jewish house. At this stage various contradictory versions have emerged and they need to be sorted out to get a coherent and realistic picture. However what is clear even now is this was a well conceived and well rehearsed operation, long time in meticulous preparation and launched after a very careful reconnaissance. It may not have had the approval of the head of state and head of government. In case of a state like Pakistan that is not a highly relevant issue. They are still sorting it out in Pakistan whether the Kargil operation had the approval of the Prime Minister and if so, in what form. Before the Pakistanis talk of India indulging in familiar ' blame game' let them pause and reflect on their history of penetration operations in India in 1947- 48, in 1965 and in 1999. All the above operations were planned and executed by Pakistanis with the highest professional tactical skills but inadequate strategic foresight. It would appear on prima facie evidence available at present that the same kind of blunder has again been committed by those Pakistanis who planned and executed this operation. They may have succeeded in hurting India's tourist business for a while and vitiated the investment climate in India for some time. Arrogance At the same time just as the Kargil misadventure of Musharraf's was the beginning of friendly Indo- US relations this attack on foreigners in Mumbai will have the effect of confirming to the international community the Indian view that Pakistan is a failing state, not in a position of controlling the terroristic activities emanating from its soil. Some Pakistanis are clutching at the straw of the recent disclosures of right- wing Hindu extremist terrorism. But Hindu terrorists will not target the Europeans and Jews. They will not target the Taj and Trident hotels. Such innuendoes on the part of some Pakistanis only reflect a desperate attempt at trying to defend the indefensible. The Kargil penetration by the Pakistani Army could be proved to the world through the prisoners taken and the diary of the officer killed in action. This time there are bound to be transcripts of telephone calls made to particular numbers in Pakistan. One wonders whether Pakistanis remember India producing the transcripts of telephonic conversations between General Musharraf and General Aziz which proved the involvement of the Pakistani Army in the Kargil war in spite of denials by the Pakistani government. There are also captured terrorists in the present case. Except those Pakistanis who have espoused the ideology of religious extremism, others cannot deny that Pakistan has a number of extremist organisations with resources to carry out terrorist acts. Their own leader, Benazir Bhutto was shot down at a public rally and they have gone to the UN for an impartial investigation since the Pakistani investigating agencies themselves lack credibility. In this case since a number of US citizens have been killed the resources of the US National Security Agency may also in all probability, become available to prove Pakistani involvement. Both Indian and US intelligence agencies have given a common finding on Pakistani responsibility in blowing up the Indian Embassy in Kabul. It is in the interest of the present Pakistani Government to collaborate in the investigation to find out which particular rogue element carried out this attack. If they are negligent, it may be their own turn next. Those Pakistanis who criticise the decision to send the ISI chief are more obsessed with their anti- India hatred than by their concern to sustain democracy in Pakistan. It is a legitimate question why Pakistanis should commit such successive blunders. One view advanced by the former confidante of Field Marshal Ayub Khan, the late Altaf Gauhar, was that many Pakistani leaders, including Ayub Khan, believed that a Muslim was superior to a Hindu in fighting skills. The extremist clergy and their followers believe they have a manifest destiny to rule the world and the extremists have a despising view about the unbelievers. The Pakistanis are the originators of the two nation theory which is the earlier version of the ' clash of civilisations' thesis. They also believed that while the Muslims of various sects will be united by the concept of ' Ummah' a secular India with its diversities will not stay united. The Inter Services Intelligence ( ISI) developed during the days of General Zia the strategy of bleeding India through a thousand cuts. Lastly they persuaded themselves, after the Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan that they defeated a superpower and therefore they can defeat the other superpower, the US, and India too. While not all Pakistanis hold such extremist views the sober sections of the Pakistani population are unable to exercise effective control over the extremists. The Army has used religious extremism to dominate the moderate and democratic sections of Pakistani polity. Consequently there is an ongoing struggle between the moderate Pakistanis and the extremists who, till the recent elections, were supported by the Army and ISI. Pakistan is being bailed out by an International Monetary Fund loan. It has 20 percent inflation. Consequently the Army leadership is going along at present with the US' demand to intensify its counter- insurgency campaign against the Taliban in the Federally Administered Areas to get the vital economic aid. It is doing so reluctantly under US pressure. Civilisations President- elect Obama has urged Pakistan to intensify its counter- insurgency campaign against the Taliban and its tribal supporters. He has also been critical of Pakistan spending US military aid to equip itself for a possible war with India. The Pakistani Army's argument that it is not able to fight effectively on the western front because of its security concerns about India does not convince Obama. He has pointed out that India does not pose a threat to Pakistan but the Taliban and religious extremism do. Pakistan has launched a campaign to persuade the US that India is a security concern. But this does not sell when the the Indo- Pakistan peace process is being sustained, when cross- border trade is initiated and President Zardari talks of his vision of Indo- Pakistan union some time in the future. Obviously that does not suit the interest of the Pakistan Army which proclaims itself as the guardian of the Pakistani two nation theory ideology which is, in fact, a clash of civilisations thesis. When Nawaz Sharif and Atal Bihari Vajapayee signed the Lahore declaration, General Musharraf's Northern Light Infantry men were creeping forward in the Kargil heights to wreck the Lahore peace process. Frontline Now as Manmohan Singh and Zardari attempt to make progress in the peace process, the Pakistani Army and ISI have unleashed their commandos on Mumbai. This could not have happened without the patronage of ISI and the Army. The announcement of the Director- General ISI's visit to Delhi and its subsequent cancellation also shows who wields power in Islamabad. It is not clear how the targets for terrorist attacks in Mumbai were chosen. While its primary purposes may have been to damage India economically, to wreck the Indo- Pakistan peace process and expose the Zardari government as powerless, one wonders whether the international impact of this attack was adequately thought through. Pakistan has a consistent record of miscalculating the international repercussions of its adventurist actions. That happened in 1965, 1971 and 1999. After seeing the Mumbai terrorist attacks on TV, the whole world now knows that Pakistan has not changed its ways and its animosity towards the non- Muslim populations since the days when 9/ 11 plot was hatched by a Pakistani, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, is intact. After the US reinforced its defences against terrorist attacks, the extremists have shifted the battleground for the clash of civilisations to the subcontinent and it is India which is now at the forefront of the global battle against terrorism. (The writer is a prominent strategic affairs expert) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I had been wondering about the motive behind this attack and that too of this magnitude, but all I could come up with was perhaps they wanted to hurt India's economy. Why? I didn't know. What will a terrorist outfit gain by hurting India's economy, I didn't know. This is the piece of article which reveals the true motive behind this attack and it, sort of, convinced me. But how true is this? Our politics savvy friends can help me here.

[Predator_05]

Well i believe my reply was clear enough to comprehend that' date=' but well i will make it more clear....No I don't. I will say it again, terrorists are not only in our country, they are in yours too, and stop imagining that all terrorist in your country come on boats from Pakistan. India is not an angel country.[/quote'] I don't think anyone here thinks that. After all, India has 150 million muslims - there is bound to be some home grown terrorism and many terrorist attacks that have occured in India have been attributed to home grown muslim terrorists. Pakiland obviously doesnt have this problem because you drove out or ethnically cleansed the majority of your hindu/christian/sikh minorities to set up an Izlamic republic. What people here are saying is there is always a paki hand in these attacks, whether it's through financing (Dawood and co. in Karachi) or by training done in Pakiland. But you won't be able to accept this because you seem to have trouble believing that there are no terrorist camps in Pakistan and that the whole concept of jehadi war against India is a myth. In the case of these attacks however, the paki are links are clear as day. The terrorists captured and interrogated are pakis, and they have confessed the details of their plot - revealing how they were trained for this in Pakistan and how they DID indeed come to Mumbai by boats. These are facts that have been proven. Yo can read the daily telegraph article i posted yesterday. I don't know if the paki government was directly involved, but there is a strong possibility that they may have known what was going on. That of course hasn't been proven yet, but investigations will continue.

[Bumper]

99% of attack are caused by Pakistanis in your country' date=' as per who...your media and government?! Give me a break.[/quote'] What proof are you looking for ? The terrorist himself says he is from Pakistan & you wouldnt believe that because the news emerged from Indian media ? So your version of proof is Imran Khan announcing on Geo TV, to the Pakistani public that the terrorist hails from Pakistan ? How much more delusional can you get ? You seem incapable of reasoning & I have got limited time on my hands. So I'll stop right here. Let me know when Imran Khan makes that announcement, we can resume then.

[Shehezaada]

No' date=' they come by land and by air too. The simple truth is 99% of the terror attacks that have occurred in India in the past 61 years of my country's independence, your country is responsible. You want to deny that ?[/quote'] Prove it. If you can, he can't talk anymore. This is actually what I've been wanting for a long time. The sentiment on Pak forums are that "while we feel bad for the dead, it makes us angry that Indians always blame Pakistan without proof". The sentiment on Indian forums is "Pakistan did it". So let's do it. Invite some of these people from the PAK forums, while some of our own Indian people also have a debate. Let's leave personal insults out of it.

[The Outsider]

Prove it. If you can, he can't talk anymore. This is actually what I've been wanting for a long time. The sentiment on Pak forums are that "while we feel bad for the dead, it makes us angry that Indians always blame Pakistan without proof". The sentiment on Indian forums is "Pakistan did it". So let's do it. Invite some of these people from the PAK forums, while some of our own Indian people also have a debate. Let's leave personal insults out of it.

Prove it? CNN has shown cellphones and GPS captured on the boat with a dead man's body, just in case you don't trust the Indian media. The captured terrorist has confessed and most of his leads seem to be holding up according to all reports. What more proof do you want? Actually, the good thing about this attack is that there will be an inquiry by the US also and no doubt they'll come up with the same conclusions - India would not risk making all this up to be unmasked by the US later on. Just a few months back independent inquiry of US and Indian intelligence agencies said the Kabul embassy blast were orchestrated in Pakistan. Parliament, Kargil, '71, '65, '47.......what more proof do you want? Don't spend too much time on forums where the majority population is demented, fundamental, British Pakistanis. You'll find far more sane voices amongst Pakistanis living in Pakistan than amongst that loony bunch.

[talksport]

Here is your proof ...you ***kers http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/nov/30mumterror-menon-to-brief-obama.htm

[Bumper]

Here is your proof ...you ***kers http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/nov/30mumterror-menon-to-brief-obama.htm

Doesnt count. Its from Indian media publishing information emanating from Indian police investigation of a Hindu extremist. Mullahs on Geo TV have not confirmed these claims yet.

[talksport]

Has anybody seen Henry Kissinger on CNN today.... I dont understand, why is everybody in US supporting India today

[Kartikey]

Has anybody seen Henry Kissinger on CNN today.... I dont understand, why is everybody in US supporting India today

I remember reading about him and how he completely turned a blind eye to what the Porkies were doing in Bdesh in 71 because he didnt trust India. How times have changed.

[The Outsider]

Here is your proof ...you ***kers http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/nov/30mumterror-menon-to-brief-obama.htm

It's pointless. People will believe what they want to believe. The forum Shehezaada is referring to thinks it's an American-Indian-Israeli Hindu conspiracy because apparently one person was wearing an orange band on his wrist. Indian intelligence should take down the pants of the 10 terrorists and publish the pictures of their circumcised penises. Oh wait then these guys will say they were Jews wearing orange bands. These guys are so dumb that they think Indian agencies will make up all of this when interpol and US are going to investigate the same evidence over the next few days risking complete international embarrassment if proven wrong.

[Kartikey]

Or people like Kissinger could be defending India because of what they did to the Jewish Community.

[suraj]

It's pointless. People will believe what they want to believe. The forum Shehezaada is referring to thinks it's an American-Indian-Israeli Hindu conspiracy because apparently one person was wearing an orange band on his wrist. Indian intelligence should take down the pants of the 10 terrorists and publish the pictures of their circumcised penises. Oh wait then these guys will say they were Jews wearing orange bands. These guys are so dumb that they think Indian agencies will make up all of this when interpol and US are going to investigate the same evidence over the next few days risking complete international embarrassment if proven wrong.

Exactly- I was going to post something similar. The time for showing proof is over and done with- it is time to act and let these moronic scumbags- whether Pakistani, Bangladeshi or Afghanistanis face our ire; their deaths should now be proof that not only we know of their involvement but we are also willing to punish them for it. A request that I have is that if we are abandoning ceasefire, increasing troops and calling for boycott of ties whether in sports or entertainment we should atleast stop allowing these Pakistani posters who post crap under the garb of intellectual discussion from posting. They are already spewing a lot of **** on their forums making fun of the tragedy that has happened in Mumbai, ridiculing our forces and talking about Islamic dominance. We should do this as a mark of respect.

[Shehezaada]

Prove it? CNN has shown cellphones and GPS captured on the boat with a dead man's body' date=' just in case you don't trust the Indian media. The captured terrorist has confessed and most of his leads seem to be holding up according to all reports. What more proof do you want? Actually, the good thing about this attack is that there will be an inquiry by the US also and no doubt they'll come up with the same conclusions - India would not risk making all this up to be unmasked by the US later on. Just a few months back independent inquiry of US and Indian intelligence agencies said the Kabul embassy blast were orchestrated in Pakistan. Parliament, Kargil, '71, '65, '47.......what more proof do you want? Don't spend too much time on forums where the majority population is demented, fundamental, British Pakistanis. You'll find far more sane voices amongst Pakistanis living in Pakistan than amongst that loony bunch.[/quote'] Thanks prof. Good to hear from you after a long time. Hopefully you have no family in mumbai? Bro, that's what I'm getting at too though. Anything that is Indian media is dubbed as "made up". It's a big bottleneck man. Just can't get anywhere. Can you possible provide a link for the above? Thanks

[Fontaine]

It doesn't matter whether people or the government in Pakistan believe us or not. The proof is in the chaos their country is going through when radical muslim pigs are bombing people in Pakistan weekly. The government and government agencies supported these terrorists and mujahideen trained militants years ago and now those terrorists are no longer under their control or influence. Pakistan is reaping what was sown with their own people being bombed by these terrorists.

[punjabi_khota]

It doesn't matter whether people or the government in Pakistan believe us or not. The proof is in the chaos their country is going through when radical muslim pigs are bombing people in Pakistan weekly. The government and government agencies supported these terrorists and mujahideen trained militants years ago and now those terrorists are no longer under their control or influence. Pakistan is reaping what was sown with their own people being bombed by these terrorists.

As bad as it may sound, I am happy that Pakistan is getting a BIG ****ING DOSE of its own medicine. All those Jehadis BLED India SO MUCH in Kashmir, that these recent terror strikes don't even compare. They did not know what kind of monster they were giving birth to. Pakistan has a bombing or shooting every damn week, and it is just reward. Goes to show that those stupid Muslim bastards can be made to believe anything in the name of Allah. They will kill their own ilk, if the dhadhi vaala babas they get teaching from say so. Indeed, a religion of peace.

[Peace1000]

As bad as it may sound, I am happy that Pakistan is getting a BIG ****ING DOSE of its own medicine. All those Jehadis BLED India SO MUCH in Kashmir, that these recent terror strikes don't even compare. They did not know what kind of monster they were giving birth to. Pakistan has a bombing or shooting every damn week, and it is just reward. Goes to show that those stupid Muslim bastards can be made to believe anything in the name of Allah. They will kill their own ilk, if the dhadhi vaala babas they get teaching from say so. Indeed, a religion of peace.

YOu are just generalizing. Killing innocents is strictly forbidden in Islam.

[Peace1000]

Prove it? CNN has shown cellphones and GPS captured on the boat with a dead man's body' date=' just in case you don't trust the Indian media. The captured terrorist has confessed and most of his leads seem to be holding up according to all reports. What more proof do you want? Actually, the good thing about this attack is that there will be an inquiry by the US also and no doubt they'll come up with the same conclusions - India would not risk making all this up to be unmasked by the US later on. Just a few months back independent inquiry of US and Indian intelligence agencies said the Kabul embassy blast were orchestrated in Pakistan. Parliament, Kargil, '71, '65, '47.......what more proof do you want? Don't spend too much time on forums where the majority population is demented, fundamental, British Pakistanis. You'll find far more sane voices amongst Pakistanis living in Pakistan than amongst that loony bunch.[/quote'] Here are two links for you: I thought Kasav was captured, but other Indian media claims some Ismail guy has been captured and they both seem to be from Fadrikot, the same guy who talked over the phone with your anchors so calmly with endless amount of hindi words for around 15 mins, realizing a bullet could run throw his throat any minute!! I thought Indian authority only captured one guy? HAH...and both reports claims to be working very closely with the Indian intelligence. Terrorists came from boat, but left there GPS and cell phone on the boat, instead of drowning them! Who would believe that crap?! Pathetic joker of a media! Go ahead trust your 'reliable' sources. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/Terrorists_had_plan_to_blow_up_Taj/articleshow/3772323.cms#write http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/nov/27mum-lashkar-0operative-ismail-arrested-for-attacks.htm

[milkman]

YOu are just generalizing. Killing innocents is strictly forbidden in Islam.

Innocent = Muslim Not innocent = kaffiir :finger:

[punjabi_khota]

Here are two links for you: I thought Kasav was captured, but other Indian media claims some Ismail guy has been captured and they both seem to be from Fadrikot, the same guy who talked over the phone with your anchors so calmly with endless amount of hindi words for around 15 mins, realizing a bullet could run throw his throat any minute!! I thought Indian authority only captured one guy? HAH...and both reports claims to be working very closely with the Indian intelligence. Terrorists came from boat, but left there GPS and cell phone on the boat, instead of drowning them! Who would believe that crap?! Pathetic joker of a media! Go ahead trust your 'reliable' sources. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/Terrorists_had_plan_to_blow_up_Taj/articleshow/3772323.cms#write http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/nov/27mum-lashkar-0operative-ismail-arrested-for-attacks.htm

Abbe tere ko kaun bol raha hai believe karne ko. ?????????? Mat believe kar. believe in the religion of piss. Thats what you are doomed to do. Crap to tere dimaag mein hai saale. Aur tere desh mein hai. Tu nahi to tera koi ass paass ka marega in attacks mein jaldi hi. Phir samajh mein aayega tereko. Pakistan mein bhi roz marte hain log, unka number bhi aayega. One believer killed by another one. All in the name of that guy..piss be upon him.