sandtest Posted January 22, 2009 Posted January 22, 2009 The reason any American Presidential candidate has to make sure FIRST that he establishes his identity as a Christian FIRST is not beacuse he is believer or hypocrite...it's because he is clear in his mind about IDEA of America as a country, Identity of America as a country!!
sandtest Posted January 22, 2009 Posted January 22, 2009 If Barak Obama, had not convinced every American that he is indeed a Christian --- I bet he had NEVER got elected as President! It is a matter of identity of America and those americans are damn clever and conscious about it!
The Outsider Posted January 22, 2009 Posted January 22, 2009 Bharat's identity is Hinduism and Hinduism's identity is Bharatvarsh Bull*****! Bharat's identity is it's multi-pluralism. There was Bharat before Hinduism and there will be Bharat after Hinduism.
sandtest Posted January 22, 2009 Posted January 22, 2009 Bull*****! Bharat's identity is it's multi-pluralism. There was Bharat before Hinduism and there will be Bharat after Hinduism. Disagree.....Multi-pluralism is a contitutional foundation not identity. Identity of Bharat is indeed Sanatan Dharma or Hinduism or Indic or whatver name one likes. This is beacuse the very nature of Dharma is multi-pluralistic!! To understand this you have to first look at dharma after removing tainted glass of Abrahamic traditions and communist-JNU jholawala BS perception of dharma. First you have to understand the "personal" nature of Hinduism and vast philosphy, practices associated with dharma before mouthiing off idol worship, chaddi-nicker-baniyan. The mistake, Indian commie, JNU jholawala intellectuals make is they consider "sects" in Hinduism same as Sects in Islam like Shia, Sunni or Sects in Christianity like Protestant, Catholic. It is impossible for these imbeciles to remove the glass of Abrahamic religions for a moment and look at Hinduism from Dharmic prespective!!
sandtest Posted January 22, 2009 Posted January 22, 2009 I am an atheist' date=' and I shun everything religious as much as possible..[/quote'] There can be a range of atheists. Some atheists can be more tolerant or indifferent towards other religious groups while you can come across some who just hate the word religion. But both by definition are atheists nevertheless. Atheism is PART of vast Hinduism Ever heard of particular Sankhya and Mimasa philosophies in ancinet India? This is called Astika and Nastika vaad in Hinduism which is atheistic in nature. I really laugh when modern day, so called chest thumping atheist come out as something new and imroved when in fact Hinduism has many years back practiced, debated Sankhya and Mimasa. Heck, we Hindus even have a school called Charvaka. It is PURE materialism. "Rinam Ghritva Givam Pibet" -- is it's mahavakya, go figure!!
The Outsider Posted January 22, 2009 Posted January 22, 2009 Time for your Julaab / Smiley attack ? No I don't.... batao batao??
sandtest Posted January 22, 2009 Posted January 22, 2009 "Idol" in Hinduism is not the idols which is perceived by Islamic hatred for idolatry. Even abrahamic religion like Christianity has idols of Jesus and Mother Mary in churches. I have been to Mount Mary Church in Bandra and not to be surprised Idols are offered almost similiar kind of worship which a Hindu offers to deity.
The Outsider Posted January 22, 2009 Posted January 22, 2009 saab topiwale will now tell you christianity and hinduism same same wonly ..... :winky: Only after you tell me where the, "gas hai barphoor you know where" I really don't know. Can you please tell me, so I can get some dawa/dua?
sandtest Posted January 22, 2009 Posted January 22, 2009 The idol in Hinduism is called "Vigraha" by Swami Vivekananda. It is a form, a swarupa -- which mind can be concentrated upon. The ultimate reality or consciouness or Brahmn or Ishwara is beyond the known field of illusion or "maya". All human activities or karma is part of this great illusion or maya which a human perceives through his senses. The human has no escape from this maya or sensory illusion, till he achieves the ultimate knowldege. Idols are a way of acknowledging the omniscience and omnipresence nature of Supreme Consciousness Being -- according to Swami Vivekanada's Guru Ramkrishna Paramhansa who himself was an enlightened soul who achived Moksha through idol of Kali while living in this material body.
DomainK Posted January 22, 2009 Posted January 22, 2009 The idol in Hinduism is called "Vigraha" by Swami Vivekananda. It is a form, a swarupa -- which mind can be concentrated upon. The ultimate reality or consciouness or Brahmn or Ishwara is beyond the known field of illusion or "maya". All human activities or karma is part of this great illusion or maya which a human perceives through his senses. The human has no escape from this maya or sensory illusion, till he achieves the ultimate knowldege. Idols are a way of acknowledging the omniscience and omnipresence nature of Supreme Consciousness Being -- according to Swami Vivekanada's Guru Ramkrishna Paramhansa who himself was an enlightened soul who achived Moksha through idol of Kali while living in this material body. I have the entire collection of his writings, speeches and poetry. His writing is absolutely mesmerizing. You feel captivated, transported to another world. He explains things in a such a way that a layman can understand it. And as you start asking questions in your mind, you keep getting answers as you read on. What a man he must have been in blood and flesh.:adore:
sandtest Posted January 22, 2009 Posted January 22, 2009 I really don't know. Can you please tell me, so I can get some dawa/dua? There is nothing like Dawa or Dua in Dharma.....you surely will never like to slander the practices and traditions of your parents and ancestors, proff by comparing it with temporal concepts like dawah! Ashirwad -- loosely not exactly translated as blessing, is merely an affection towards fellow Jiva. Even animals can pour Ashirwad on human since they too are Jiva....go figure how all-inclusive dharma really is!!
The Outsider Posted January 22, 2009 Posted January 22, 2009 ^ So Swami Dayanand was not a Hindu and his preachings were not Hinduism?
The Outsider Posted January 22, 2009 Posted January 22, 2009 There is nothing like Dawa or Dua in Dharma.....you surely will never like to slander the practices and traditions of your parents and ancestors, proff by comparing it with temporal concepts like dawah! Ashirwad -- loosely not exactly translated as blessing, is merely an affection towards fellow Jiva. Even animals can pour Ashirwad on human since they too are Jiva....go figure how all-inclusive dharma really is!! I was asking where "gas hai barphoor you know where" according to BB's assertion. Surely you were not trying to answer that by your post above, were you?
sandtest Posted January 22, 2009 Posted January 22, 2009 Surely no one can claim a strict rule or set of criteria for someone being a Hindu or non-Hindu based on method of worship, meditation, concentration etc. RikVedic saying goes like --- Ekam Sat, Vipram Bahudha vadanti. The truth is one, wise know it by their own ways. Sikhism is indeed a dharmic way of life and India is indebted to Sikh gurus!
sandtest Posted January 22, 2009 Posted January 22, 2009 I was merely going by "common knowledge" "general practices" .... unless ofcourse 99% of Hindu community is wrong when they do pooja-paath at mandir ... But then Janaab Lahori waale's Lahori logic kicked in as is the norm. Vedic life is all about yagya,pooja paath go-daan etc another form of Idol worship. Infact Arya Samaj waley do perform go-daan if Iam not wrong .... uh-ohh Exactly Bossbhai!! You said it as it is! I may add, even during great period of Dwapar and Treta yugas in Puarans, there were both "Murti" and non-Murti type of worships perfectly co-existing together, in fact within a family sometimes. We have examles of great Rishis in Mahabharat who will mediate purely upon OM and Advaitic concept of Brahmn. Then at the same time we have examples of Gandhari the wife of Dhritrashtra who was a devote worshipper of Lord Shiva and existence of "Shivlingam" in Gandhari's room. In the same house there were pandavas and kauravas who will perform "Ashwamedha" Yagna -- a type of horse Yagna of Vedas to gain strength and glory! Also Kuntis worship of Suryadev is well documented.
The Outsider Posted January 22, 2009 Posted January 22, 2009 I was merely going by "common knowledge" "general practices" .... unless ofcourse 99% of Hindu community is wrong when they do pooja-paath at mandir ... But then Janaab Lahori waale's Lahori logic kicked in as is the norm. Vedic life is all about yagya,pooja paath go-daan etc another form of Idol worship. Infact Arya Samaj waley do perform go-daan if Iam not wrong .... uh-ohh No, You said, But trust me idol worship is an integral part of Hindu culture And multiple people have shown you multiple sects who are considered Hindus without performing idol worship. PS: There is a difference between nature and idol worship which bhagwaa brigade cannot understand.
sandtest Posted January 22, 2009 Posted January 22, 2009 Point is Dharma cannot be looked upon through Islamic-Abrahamic rigid definition of religion -- where my way or highway is ultimate truth! In dharma within the same house an atheist son and an idol worshipper parents can co-exist perfectly together! In Islam it is totally opposite, two different believers can never live together no matter what! This is what many p-secs miss when they try to paint Hinduism with same brush of Islam.
The Outsider Posted January 22, 2009 Posted January 22, 2009 .... when a vast majority of the community indulge in idol worship its fair to say that its an integral part of Hinduism. As such your own Arya Samaj waale do some form of idol worship i.e go-daan . Should I explain to you the difference between nature and idol worship too now? Will probably do it after you answer this question, "gas hai barphoor you know where" I really don't know. Can you please tell me, so I can get some dawa/dua?
sandtest Posted January 22, 2009 Posted January 22, 2009 Famous Chatth Puja in UP-Bihar is nothing but Surya Pooja ....isn't Surya part of "Nature" from science point of view. Also, in any marriage, before starting any new construction etc., first "Bhumi Pooja" or worshipping the mother earth is perfromed. Agni, Vayu, Jal all are Vedic deities, basically any science student will consider it as nature. So how can nature worship be different than idol worship.....I am open for seeking knowledge in this.
sandtest Posted January 22, 2009 Posted January 22, 2009 Btw...there are Surya mandirs and Surya dev's idols/photos!
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