Allegations on Varun Gandhi and Pseudo-Secular Politics Media and Election Commission Alike

[Lurker]

Why dont you tell me what should have been done when 200 Indians were under the threat of death in Taliban controlled Afghanistan. The Congress party at that time was protesting along with the relatives of the passengers. The decision to release the terrorists was taken in consultation with all the parties. Even P. Chidambaram has recently admitted that there was no easy solution to the Kandahar crisis. Why dont you tell me what could have been done instead? And as for national shame is concerned, 26/11 was no less of a shame. More so considering the fact that there was a terrorist already in UP police custody since Feb 2008 - Fahim Ansari - who had confessed of a LeT plot to attack Mumbai and has made sketches of prominenent locations. From Feb 2008 to 26/11/08, the Maharashtra Congress govt did not even bother to interrogate this man about the plot, and the result was 170 people dead, and 3 days of utter national humiliation televised all over the world. There are other examples too. In 1994 the pathetic Congress govt allowed Mast Gul (an Let terrorist) to escape from the Charar-e-Sharif shrine in Kashmir where he had taken shelter there and even after the 1500 security personnel surrounded the shrine.

Why is that even a question?? NO FREEING OF TERRORIST. Is that such a hard thing to comprehend?? The next time you, and the likes of you, start yapping about - Oh see how Israel would have reacted in this scenario - better take a step back and ask what Israel would have done at Kandahar? Maybe repeat an Entebbe?? Definitely they wouldnt have entertained the idea that you are trying to justify here. It is shamefully tragic that the very same who sing hosannas about Israel and United States basically come down to become cowering teenagers when it comes to defending big time cowards like Jaswant Singh(u can also throw in Advani here since he was the Home Minister and NSG got stuck in traffic :hysterical: ). And quit comparing Fahim Ansari yada yada. Kandahar is the single most humiliating aspect of Indian weakness since our freedom. Simple as that. xxx

[veeru_rocks]

:hysterical::hysterical: That has got to be the dumbest statement I have ever read on message board, and no I dont use that statement lightly. The Foreign Minister of Sovereign India(as per you "Nuclear" India) prostrates in front of terrorists and humiliates an entire nation with his(and his party's) timidity. Needless to say these terrorists end up killing more people than were "saved" that day. What bothers is the simple lack of reasoning displayed by folks like you. No other country can have citizens with this kind of thought. Courage displayed by Foreign Minister in releasing terrorists! Ultra shameful (and blind by bias) comment if I ever read one! xxx

Congress colors are comign forth like never before let us put down the event for zillionth time (1) 200 indian are stuck in afghnistan wa country with which we didn;lt have diplomatic relationship then (2) opposition and whole media alike crying day in day out.. Sonia Maino included.. you can chekc the old tapes.. family member of those stuck in that plane are being shown crying and shouting do anythign but bring my people (3)Precdence of five terrorists being released for certian Rubia Saeed and you are telling there was any other option yes llike UPA if NDA had the luxury of getitng each and every hostage kileld in our own country in mumbai then NDA cud have shown birkmanship.. At the root of all this is svaing of criminals like Afzal Gurur who have bene given death sentence or saving these crimansl under hoary cry from psec cabal and himan rights watch.. had these criminals bene murdered in cold bllod like soharabuddin there wud have bene noone to be released.. i am sure even that is not acceptable to secular cabal only thign they want is nautanki of three day where all hotsage get murdered and yet they trumpet successful mission COngressi support does impair one's sanity it seems

[veeru_rocks]

BTW not a single word over why socalled secualr congress is sleepign with that maulana's aprty or why other congress leader bene not served notice.. Man youo are fit enough to take manmohan's chair he too is deaf and bllind to any criticism and you too seem to be perfecting that art

[seedhi]

Why is that even a question?? NO FREEING OF TERRORIST.

India had freed terrorists before as well. In 1989 for example the terrorists were freed for the life of one Rubina Sayeed.

Is that such a hard thing to comprehend?? The next time you, and the likes of you, start yapping about - Oh see how Israel would have reacted in this scenario - better take a step back and ask what Israel would have done at Kandahar? Maybe repeat an Entebbe?? Definitely they wouldnt have entertained the idea that you are trying to justify here.

I suggest you read a bit about the dozens of times Israel has freed terrorists in exchange for hostages. Infact recently they freed one just for the dead body of one of their soldiers. And probably you are forgetting that Taliban were fully supported by Pakistan and any Entebbe like operation had almost a nil chance of success.

And quit comparing Fahim Ansari yada yada. Kandahar is the single most humiliating aspect of Indian weakness since our freedom. Simple as that.

No. The disaster in 1962 is the biggest humiliation ever. 26/11 pretty much ranks on top too.

[suraj]

:hysterical::hysterical: That has got to be the dumbest statement I have ever read on message board, and no I dont use that statement lightly. The Foreign Minister of Sovereign India(as per you "Nuclear" India) prostrates in front of terrorists and humiliates an entire nation with his(and his party's) timidity. Needless to say these terrorists end up killing more people than were "saved" that day. What bothers is the simple lack of reasoning displayed by folks like you. No other country can have citizens with this kind of thought. Courage displayed by Foreign Minister in releasing terrorists! Ultra shameful (and blind by bias) comment if I ever read one! xxx

Lurker while I agree that this was indeed a shameful moment for India ( like many others such as Mufti's daughter's episode etc etc), what course of action you would have recommended if your mother or sister or girlfriend/boyfriend ( aajkal pata nahin chalta kya orientation hai) or son/daughter was one of the hostages?? I ask because I always struggle with this dilemma. Also if it was another party in power rather than BJP what do you think they wud have done in this situation e.g. if Congress was in rule? Also while it seems that you are clearly anti-BJP do you think Congress is the ideal solution or is it just trying to pick the best of what is available- I ask because we ceded to China under Congress rule, our "socialist" economic model failed under Congress rule, Mumbai happened under Congress rule, a lot of riots that get blamed on "communal" parties actually happen under Congress rule so curious about whether we are trying to make the best of the situation or is there really a great party that exists in India under the name of Congress.

[veeru_rocks]

Jaswinder Singh still crying how his life has bene threatened if he comes to India a s a witness yet CBI has gven Jagdish tytler clean ****.. So on one hand Manmohan singh first claimign it was RSS who killed Sikhs apologizes on behalf of congress.. ( honestly manmohan singh's apology means nothn it shoudl have come from the butcher nehru family) on the other hand no congresis is guilty as per CBI.. Once again CBI delilvered just like bofors kickback money release of sonia's jeejaji Hail secularism......

[veeru_rocks]

Now Omar Abdullah yes same nitwit who was pide piper of those who worked against hindu religious body and hindus of valley.. same Omar abdullah who keeps silent over close to 600 temples being destroyed suddenly gives people lecture on what is hate speech....

[Lurker]

India had freed terrorists before as well. In 1989 for example the terrorists were freed for the life of one Rubina Sayeed.

I am actually quite happy that I have indulged in this debate with you. While your earlier dumb statement about Jaswant Singh having "guts" was dismissed by myself as a faux-pas which we all seem to indulge in from time to time it is fairly evident now that you are nothing but blind as a bat fanatic for RSS who simply does not seem to understand the humiliation BJP meted out to India at Kandahar. Lets get to Rubina Sayeed saga now. Who was Rubina Sayeed? Daughter of Mufti Mohammed Sayeed, Home Minister under VP Singh. So now: a) It has NOTHING to do with Congress. In fact the parties that did support VP Singh was BJP and Communist Parties during election campaigns. The latter two did not form part of Govt but supported from outside. Nevertheless BJP was supportive of VP Singh and his Govt and NOT Congress. In other words BJP played a good role in getting VP elected and in turn getting India effed (they have a knack of doing that anyway). Samjhe? b) Rubina Sayeed issue saga was a slap in the face of India. I am willing to say that 70000 times. Are you smart enough to say that Kandahar was a slap in the face of India too? Knowing you I am pretty darn sure you will come back with another I-will-continue-to-dig-myself-in-a-deeper-hole argument.

I suggest you read a bit about the dozens of times Israel has freed terrorists in exchange for hostages. Infact recently they freed one just for the dead body of one of their soldiers. And probably you are forgetting that Taliban were fully supported by Pakistan and any Entebbe like operation had almost a nil chance of success.

BS and shamelessness of highest order. Fact : Entebbe operation was done in Uganda, a far more powerful country than Afganistan. Fact : Entebbe operation was done without support from Uganda, similar to Taliban. Fact : More passengers were on board at Entebbe than at Kandahar. Fact: Israelis stormed the plane, BJP surrendered. So what exactly are you on about? About time you admitted the embarassment Jaswant Singh, Advani and other cohorts have heaped on India instead of defending the morons. xxx

[Lurker]

Lurker while I agree that this was indeed a shameful moment for India ( like many others such as Mufti's daughter's episode etc etc), what course of action you would have recommended if your mother or sister or girlfriend/boyfriend ( aajkal pata nahin chalta kya orientation hai) or son/daughter was one of the hostages?? I ask because I always struggle with this dilemma.

I would have supported storming the plane. Would Congress have done what BJP did? I dont know. What I do know is that if they had done that I would have criticized that too. People have short memories these days. They tend to forget that the people who got freed that day have killed so many more Indians over the years(after freeing). Parliament attack was handiwork of these freed culprits. How can any BJP supporter criticize about Parliament attack when they freed the f***ng terrorist? I remember the time Daniel Pearl was murdered. He was murdered by one of the freed terrorists and Western media, specially American, roasted Indian Govt's weakness for long. If you search web you should be able to find the link. xxx

[suraj]

I would have supported storming the plane. Would Congress have done what BJP did? I dont know. What I do know is that if they had done that I would have criticized that too. People have short memories these days. They tend to forget that the people who got freed that day have killed so many more Indians over the years(after freeing). Parliament attack was handiwork of these freed culprits. How can any BJP supporter criticize about Parliament attack when they freed the f***ng terrorist? I remember the time Daniel Pearl was murdered. He was murdered by one of the freed terrorists and Western media, specially American, roasted Indian Govt's weakness for long. If you search web you should be able to find the link. xxx

Thanks for the response-atleast your stand is consistent.

[seedhi]

Lets get to Rubina Sayeed saga now. Who was Rubina Sayeed? Daughter of Mufti Mohammed Sayeed, Home Minister under VP Singh. So now: a) It has NOTHING to do with Congress. In fact the parties that did support VP Singh was BJP and Communist Parties during election campaigns. The latter two did not form part of Govt but supported from outside. Nevertheless BJP was supportive of VP Singh and his Govt and NOT Congress.

You have completely missed the point. India had released terrorists in exchange for hostages before. Then what answer would the govt give to the relatives of those passengers trapped this time - that terrorists can be released if the hostage is the daughter of a minister but not for 200 passengers? As for congress. Just check the news reports from that time - Congress party members were demonstrating with the relatives demanding the exchange be done. And now these shameless people raise this issue. 1n 1995 Charar-e-Sharif disaster, the congress govt offered the most wanted terrorist operating in Kashmir a "safe passage" if he vacated the shrine. Eventually, after a SIX month long drama, the shrine was burnt along with 200 houses and Mast Gul managed to esacpe anyway, and then addressed a press conference on Indian soil. An utter humiliation. At least Kandahar was foriegn soil, this happened in our territory. You can read more here http://offstumped.wordpress.com/2009/04/01/india-elections-2009-manmohan-and-the-mosque-that-burned/ . Your revered Manmohan Singh was one of those who was part of this debacle having been deputed by PVN to resolve this crisis.

b) Rubina Sayeed issue saga was a slap in the face of India. I am willing to say that 70000 times. Are you smart enough to say that Kandahar was a slap in the face of India too? Knowing you I am pretty darn sure you will come back with another I-will-continue-to-dig-myself-in-a-deeper-hole argument.

I am willing to say Kandahar was a slap on India's face if you are willing to say that, 1. 1962 was the most humiliating moment in the history of independent India when we lost a war and ceded territory (later vacated unilaterally by China) 2. Charar-e-Sharif and 26/11 were as much of a humiliation as Rubina Sayeed and Kandahar.

Fact : Entebbe operation was done in Uganda, a far more powerful country than Afganistan.

Taliban were fully supported by Pakistan, the hijack was planned by ISI not Taliban. Pakistan would have ensured any Entebbe like adventure ended up in further disaster. And how would India get to Kandahar? Flying over pakistan was out of the question.

Fact : Entebbe operation was done without support from Uganda, similar to Taliban.

Again, Taliban had the backing of ISI.

Fact: Israelis stormed the plane, BJP surrendered.

Israel beat back armies of much larger Arab nations in 1973 when they launched a surprise attacked on it. In a similar situation Congress led govt ceded territory to Chinese in 1962, apart from losing thousands of soldiers. Why? Because of that conceited Nehru and his lackey Krishna Menon who ensured that our ordnance factories were producing coffee makers.

About time you admitted the embarassment Jaswant Singh, Advani and other cohorts have heaped on India instead of defending the morons.

Nothing compared to fools like Nehru being worshipped after having led India to its bloodiest defeat.

[veeru_rocks]

(1)Charar-e-sharif: Indian terrotiry Conhgress buckles while jsut a religious structure was at stake hardly many llife if any .> Congress kneels down before terrorist Psec cable is fine with this (2)Mumbai: Congress sees that all the hostages get mericilessly muirdered again in indian territory Psec cabal is fine with thsi also (3)Rubia Saeed Episode: tisn time another champion of secularims V P Singh succumbs and lets go five terrorists for a fake kidnapping drama of daughetr of home minister Again no problem (4)Kandhar: Alien hostile territory 200 indians life at stake BJP lets go three criminasl saving 200 lives.. Big problem how dare BJP save indian llives

[Lurker]

India had released terrorists in exchange for hostages before. Then what answer would the govt give to the relatives of those passengers trapped this time - that terrorists can be released if the hostage is the daughter of a minister but not for 200 passengers?

The answer would be simple - We dont negotiate with terrorists. As I have mentioned earlier, which you have clearly missed, Rubina Sayeed episode was an embarassment for India. So you are suggesting we should have more of the embarassments?? Whats wrong with you?

As for congress. Just check the news reports from that time - Congress party members were demonstrating with the relatives demanding the exchange be done. And now these shameless people raise this issue. 1n 1995 Charar-e-Sharif disaster, the congress govt offered the most wanted terrorist operating in Kashmir a "safe passage" if he vacated the shrine. Eventually, after a SIX month long drama, the shrine was burnt along with 200 houses and Mast Gul managed to esacpe anyway, and then addressed a press conference on Indian soil. An utter humiliation. At least Kandahar was foriegn soil, this happened in our territory. You can read more here http://offstumped.wordpress.com/2009/04/01/india-elections-2009-manmohan-and-the-mosque-that-burned/ . Your revered Manmohan Singh was one of those who was part of this debacle having been deputed by PVN to resolve this crisis.

Screw Congress. I have made myself clear to other poster in this thread already that whoever, including Congress, would have made a major mistake had they did what the BJP did. So what are you on about again?

I am willing to say Kandahar was a slap on India's face if you are willing to say that, 1. 1962 was the most humiliating moment in the history of independent India when we lost a war and ceded territory (later vacated unilaterally by China)

NO problems with that. Where did I say 1962 is a great episode for India(or Nehru)

2. Charar-e-Sharif and 26/11 were as much of a humiliation as Rubina Sayeed and Kandahar.

Rubina Sayeed has been beaten to death already. I have called it major embarassment like 20 times. Charar-e-Sharif and 26/11 are other major embarassments yes. Did you see me utter how Sivraj Patil was "gutsy" during 26/11?? There is no ifs and buts about this all of the issues that you mention were bad, I find Kandahar the worse of the lot for the reasons I have mentioned earlier. xx

[veeru_rocks]

I would have supported storming the plane. Would Congress have done what BJP did? I dont know. What I do know is that if they had done that I would have criticized that too. People have short memories these days. They tend to forget that the people who got freed that day have killed so many more Indians over the years(after freeing). Parliament attack was handiwork of these freed culprits. How can any BJP supporter criticize about Parliament attack when they freed the f***ng terrorist? I remember the time Daniel Pearl was murdered. He was murdered by one of the freed terrorists and Western media, specially American, roasted Indian Govt's weakness for long. If you search web you should be able to find the link. xxx

That we know now.. but at that time paramount consideration was saving the lives of people in danger at that momenr.. all party meeting supported that stand with media acting as advocate of the same through constant beaming of weepig family members.. we saw spectacle where people shamelessly were asking concede whatever you have to but bring our family members back and media was whippng frenzy.. So I have beef with people like you who somehow spin it as if BJP buckled despite that fact that we have history of conceding to these carlatans when they took hotasge on our own soil not on some alien hostile soil

[Lurker]

So I have beef with people like you who somehow spin it as if BJP buckled despite that fact that we have history of conceding to these carlatans when they took hotasge on our own soil not on some alien hostile soil

And I have absolutely no surprises when I hear that shameless logic uttered by right wing loonies like you. I am only too happy that Supreme Court, and Indian Judicial System, does not work like you, or your cohorts do. The legal defence counsel of Sanjay Dutt, or Pappu Yadav or Sahabuddin take your pick, had ALL argued how their candidates should be allowed to contest since Navjot Singh Sidhu was in a similar circumstance. Extremely happy to see Supreme Court quashing the precedent and barring all of these candidates! Tum wahi fata dholak gale mein latkaate ke bajaate raho :finger:

[veeru_rocks]

And I have absolutely no surprises when I hear that shameless logic uttered by right wing loonies like you. I am only too happy that Supreme Court, and Indian Judicial System, does not work like you, or your cohorts do. The legal defence counsel of Sanjay Dutt, or Pappu Yadav or Sahabuddin take your pick, had ALL argued how their candidates should be allowed to contest since Navjot Singh Sidhu was in a similar circumstance. Extremely happy to see Supreme Court quashing the precedent and barring all of these candidates! Tum wahi fata dholak gale mein latkaate ke bajaate raho :finger:

What has Sc got to do with the debate of when and how we conceded to terorrists on our own soill.. In certain cases of charar-e-shrif even supplied hot biryani before gvign these ma$tards safe exit.. When I poin that out suddenly your nonseiscial illogical point that those stuck in kandhar shpuld have bene sacrificed goes to thin air and you pull off some other issue.. stick to the topic... When you support thugs who concede to terrporist on indian soil then you have no rights to even talk about kandhar.. you come of as shameless congressi who has no principle

[veeru_rocks]

(1)Charar-e-sharif: Indian terrotiry Conhgress buckles while jsut a religious structure was at stake hardly many llife if any .> Congress kneels down before terrorist Psec cable is fine with this (2)Mumbai: Congress sees that all the hostages get mericilessly muirdered again in indian territory Psec cabal is fine with thsi also (3)Rubia Saeed Episode: tisn time another champion of secularims V P Singh succumbs and lets go five terrorists for a fake kidnapping drama of daughetr of home minister Again no problem (4)Kandhar: Alien hostile territory 200 indians life at stake BJP lets go three criminasl saving 200 lives.. Big problem how dare BJP save indian llives

Give another attmpt no nonsense of Sc sanjaya dutt bla bla stick to the topic

[Lurker]

What has Sc got to do with the debate of

It has got everything to do with the debate. I am all for supporting those who dare to take a stand against what is wrong. Hence Sidhu sahab ka precedence goes for a toss. I am quite happy for the SC verdict in Sanjay Dutt, Sahabuddin & Pappu Yadav. You, on the other hand, are dishonest enough to completely ignore the fact that BJP not only humiliated India, but at best ended up following a wrong "tradition" (if thats your best argument). Samjhe bhai saheb?

[veeru_rocks]

Lallu publicly threatens to murder varun had he bene home minister.. FIR ladged arrest warrant issued.. sthg tells me this guy won;t be arrested lest he becomes martyr..

[veeru_rocks]

It has got everything to do with the debate. I am all for supporting those who dare to take a stand against what is wrong. Hence Sidhu sahab ka precedence goes for a toss. I am quite happy for the SC verdict in Sanjay Dutt, Sahabuddin & Pappu Yadav. You, on the other hand, are dishonest enough to completely ignore the fact that BJP not only humiliated India, but at best ended up following a wrong "tradition" (if thats your best argument). Samjhe bhai saheb?

Again if you knew anythign you wud have known Sidhu's conviction have been stayed and SC has done nothing knew .. had Sanjay dut's conviction been stayed even he cud have fought.. This has nothign to do with issue we are debating.. Wrong tradtion says who, ( it was not as if BJP was playing vote-bank politics and decided to provide hot biryani and gave safe exit to the mosters as opposed to taking the building a dargah in which they were hiding down.) BJP had no other option if it wanted to save those 200 llives.. for people like you to see malice in thsi reeks of igorance or congress-bhakti.. We have seen how efficient our socalled NSG commandos are in mumbai haven't we.. If you have forgotten let me remind you not even single hostage was freed alive after the first day when both sides fortified their positions.. 200 people can't be allowed to die not when whole India is chickening and making a public spectalce of it on 24/7 tv.. not when all party meeting wants the same..