THX_1138 Posted April 20, 2009 Posted April 20, 2009 His allegations about Satya Sai Baba are 100% correct. In fact' date=' there was a India Today main article sometime in 1999 or thereabouts exposing the whole thing, with interviews of the victims.[/quote'] as much as i dislike god men, a tabulation of allegations by alleged victims is hardly an establishment of guilt. if he is indeed of dubious character, he ought to be brought to court. if he yields too much influence, then take him to court in the united states or a million other places, or in an international court of arbitration.
triam Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 what? dude you have to tell me more now! http://dir.salon.com/story/people/feature/2001/07/02/krishna/print.html Child abuse in the seventies in a lot of ISKCON facilities in the US and apparently also India. They were sued for 400 million dollars and ISKCON local chapters basically declared bankruptcy because of this.
veeru_rocks Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 I don't know which Sai baba it was but if it's the same Sai Baba as being mentioned in this video then Sai baba has my vote [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enhLgV8eJOo]YouTube - Arun Shourie talks about Ramnath Goenka[/ame]
THX_1138 Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 Veeru that is a reference to satya sai baba. He has a reputation for such seemingly prophetic statements.
veeru_rocks Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 THora prakash dalo satya Sai baba and sai baba are these two different characters do they have any connection with each other.. "Seemingly prophetic" boy your castle of agnosticim/atheism is on precipice
THX_1138 Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 THora prakash dalo satya Sai baba and sai baba are these two different characters do they have any connection with each other.. i dont know much, but satya sai baba has had his share of alleged controversies. what i know about him however is that he has funded, or rather isaac tigers (the guy who owned hard rock cafe), donated money through him to build a hospital near sai baba's base of operations.
veeru_rocks Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 Anyway if a guy can tell furture like he did as the video mentions then he has to be something special
THX_1138 Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 THora prakash dalo satya Sai baba and sai baba are these two different characters do they have any connection with each other.. "Seemingly prophetic" boy your castle of agnosticim/atheism is on precipice present a litany of his prophecies that have been true and those that have not been true. if the success percent is below 50, then it suggests that a trained monkey (whose responses would have been random) would have achieved greater success at prediction. since the missed/incorrect prophecies are rarely reported, we make god men out of actuaries.
triam Posted April 21, 2009 Posted April 21, 2009 present a litany of his prophecies that have been true and those that have not been true. if the success percent is below 50' date=' then it suggests that a trained monkey (whose responses would have been random) would have achieved greater success at prediction. since the missed/incorrect prophecies are rarely reported, we make god men out of actuaries.[/quote'] Exactly how god men, and seers are created. THX, you didnt know about the litany of lawsuits against ISKCON in the US? and the associated child molestation scandal, thats what I meant in the earlier post.
veeru_rocks Posted April 22, 2009 Posted April 22, 2009 Do you have litany of those cases eventual judgement....... you do know majority of those cases don;t go beyond intial hoopla and fall flat on its face in court.. For instance Shankracharya was accused of murder and court fiound it was political vendetta now none of the media who made a song and dance about is apologizing for their verdict without investigation....... Every day cases getthrown on Asaram Bapu and the moment it comes to court it fizzles out......... My point is it works both ways getting case registered is not enough anyone can get it done against anyone particualrly in india
triam Posted April 22, 2009 Posted April 22, 2009 Do you have litany of those cases eventual judgement....... you do know majority of those cases don;t go beyond intial hoopla and fall flat on its face in court.. For instance Shankracharya was accused of murder and court fiound it was political vendetta now none of the media who made a song and dance about is apologizing for their verdict without investigation....... Every day cases getthrown on Asaram Bapu and the moment it comes to court it fizzles out......... My point is it works both ways getting case registered is not enough anyone can get it done against anyone particualrly in india Dude, they accepted and settled out of court, what more do you want Bankruptcy reorganization plan for Hare Krishna temples approved Associated Press Posted June 1, 2005 LOS ANGELES - A federal bankruptcy court on Monday approved a reorganization plan that will allow six California-based Hare Krishna temples and their affiliates to remain open while compensating members who claim they were abused at the society's schools. The plan includes $9.5 million for alleged victims of sexual, physical and emotional abuse during the 1970s and 1980s at religious boarding schools run by the Hare Krishnas. A similar reorganization plan was approved May 16 in West Virginia, where temples also filed for bankruptcy. The monotheistic tradition, also known as the International Society of Krishna Consciousness, was founded in 1966 by an Indian scholar. Ninety-two people sued the Hare Krishnas in 2000 in U.S. District Court in Dallas, alleging they had been sexually, physically and emotionally abused at Krishna boarding schools in the 1970s and 1980s. In the United States, schools were in Los Angeles and Three Rivers, Calif., Moundsville, W. Va., and Dallas. Other boarding schools were in India. The federal suit was dismissed in 2001, but the plaintiffs refiled in Texas state court. The Hare Krishnas filed for bankruptcy in February 2002 before the case went to trial. The society has since located more than 350 more people worldwide who claim they were abused at the schools, known as ashram-based gurukulas. These people will also receive a piece of the compensation fund, said Anuttama Dasa, the Washington, D.C.-based spokesman for the religious society. "We knew there were more kids who were mistreated or abused and we wanted to try to include them in the settlement," Dasa said.
THX_1138 Posted April 22, 2009 Posted April 22, 2009 Dude' date=' they accepted and settled out of court, what more do you want[/quote'] actually i went a step further. i am quite close to the temple president's son and he himself, along with his cousin had spent 18 months at a gurukul near vrindavan. and i did not even have to probe him for information, he offered information himself that a number of the support staff were guilty of incredible atrocities. most of them revolved around enforced discipline that arose from the numerous rituals they were made to observe, when the orientation of the schools stated that those rituals would be recommended rather than mandatory. so yes, the lawsuits against Iskcon on account of child abuse have merit, though the allegations of sexual abuse have not been established in court, but it wont be a far stretch to assume that such abuse was prevalent as well. as for what DR has to say that many of these cases rarely ever make it to trial, well he might be surprised to know that only 4-6% of all civil cases actually make it to trial, most end with out of court settlements or outright dismissals. that does not in any capacity suggest that only 4-6% of the cases hold water... moreover, a number of such cases are given severely partial treatments as a number of such religious outfits are vertically connected in the political ladder.
THX_1138 Posted April 22, 2009 Posted April 22, 2009 Exactly how god men, and seers are created. THX, you didnt know about the litany of lawsuits against ISKCON in the US? and the associated child molestation scandal, thats what I meant in the earlier post. i was unaware of the extend of the morass, but now i do... though i feel these cases relate to incidents that are over 20 years old. i thought you were referring to something in the near past. not that the passage of time is any vindication...
triam Posted April 22, 2009 Posted April 22, 2009 actually i went a step further. i am quite close to the temple president's son and he himself, along with his cousin had spent 18 months at a gurukul near vrindavan. and i did not even have to probe him for information, he offered information himself that a number of the support staff were guilty of incredible atrocities. most of them revolved around enforced discipline that arose from the numerous rituals they were made to observe, when the orientation of the schools stated that those rituals would be recommended rather than mandatory. so yes, the lawsuits against Iskcon on account of child abuse have merit, though the allegations of sexual abuse have not been established in court, but it wont be a far stretch to assume that such abuse was prevalent as well. as for what DR has to say that many of these cases rarely ever make it to trial, well he might be surprised to know that only 4-6% of all civil cases actually make it to trial, most end with out of court settlements or outright dismissals. that does not in any capacity suggest that only 4-6% of the cases hold water... moreover, a number of such cases are given severely partial treatments as a number of such religious outfits are vertically connected in the political ladder. That was directed towards Veeru rocks, I mean the statement " Dude what more do you want"
THX_1138 Posted April 22, 2009 Posted April 22, 2009 That was directed towards Veeru rocks' date=' I mean the statement " Dude what more do you want"[/quote'] yeah i know, i was trying to shore up your point that rarely ever do cases make it to the courthouse.
triam Posted April 22, 2009 Posted April 22, 2009 i was unaware of the extend of the morass' date=' but now i do... though i feel these cases relate to incidents that are over 20 years old. i thought you were referring to something in the near past. not that the passage of time is any vindication...[/quote'] Although the actual issue happened 30 years back, it came out with the lawsuits etc around 2002-2003. The first time I knew about this is when my roommate dragged me to this ISKCON temple in 2004 I think, the temple had a separate offering box with a notice saying "To support ISKCON against the lawsuit" or something like that. After the scandal erupted the organization has mostly said and done the right things, but I find it hard to believe they didnt know of this before. Although I am thankful to ISKCON in that, my roomie who was an ISKCONite finally made me an atheist from an indifferent hindu with his attempts to persuade me to become a member of ISKCON.
THX_1138 Posted April 22, 2009 Posted April 22, 2009 Although the actual issue happened 30 years back' date=' it came out with the lawsuits etc around 2002-2003. The first time I knew about this is when my roommate dragged me to this ISKCON temple in 2004 I think, the temple had a separate offering box with a notice saying [b']"To support ISKCON against the lawsuit" or something like that. After the scandal erupted the organization has mostly said and done the right things, but I find it hard to believe they didnt know of this before. Although I am thankful to ISKCON in that, my roomie who was an ISKCONite finally made me an atheist from an indifferent hindu with his attempts to persuade me to become a member of ISKCON. lol that reminds me of what george carlin used to say... "Religion convinced the world that there's an invisible man in the sky who watches everything you do. And there's 10 things he doesn't want you to do or else you'll to to a burning place with a lake of fire until the end of eternity. But he loves you! ...And he needs money! He's all powerful, but he can't handle money!" anyways, i do credit iskcon for my atheism too. to be honest, its been a comedy of errors... when my family first came in contact with iskcon in the early 90s, it was a spiritual revolution, a rejuvination of faith or as most americans would claim: "i was born again"... but as i reached the age of reason, i realized that the numerous rituals and rites they observed, that i too observed with a vehement enthusiasm, were less out of belief or increasing spirituality but because it was often rewarded with incredible praise. in effect, i would pray and chant numerous times a day because those around me, most of them iskcon devotees themselves, would shower me with attention and praise and thus reinforcing that habit... of course, their compliments had little consolatory effect as reason overpowered radicalism. in hindsight, i find it absurd that anyone can believe in the existence of an entity such as god... but that's a different matter. returning to the issue at hand, i cant speak for the authorities, but a number of the oppressed and exploited had filed numerous complains, and in fact, it seems that it was due to these numerous complaints, the gurukuls in the united states were shut down and moved to india where the exploitation continued without respite. i guess they assumed that chanting enough rounds would heal a broken back... p.s. download the latest episode of "this american life", the latest episode is titled "this i used to believe" and it has one story of a lady who attempted to regain her faith, but failed. search itunes for "this american life", its the first result under the podcast category.
THX_1138 Posted April 22, 2009 Posted April 22, 2009 Although the actual issue happened 30 years back, it came out with the lawsuits etc around 2002-2003. The first time I knew about this is when my roommate dragged me to this ISKCON temple in 2004 I think, the temple had a separate offering box with a notice saying "To support ISKCON against the lawsuit" or something like that. After the scandal erupted the organization has mostly said and done the right things, but I find it hard to believe they didnt know of this before. Although I am thankful to ISKCON in that, my roomie who was an ISKCONite finally made me an atheist from an indifferent hindu with his attempts to persuade me to become a member of ISKCON. care to tell more?
triam Posted April 22, 2009 Posted April 22, 2009 care to tell more? Haha, it is a funny story actually, he was and still is an avid ISKCON devotee, we were 3 roommates, this guy is a very nice guy who believed in ISKCON whole heartedly, so he tried convincing me to join ISKCON, dragged me to their temples etc. Before that religion was something, that didnt play a big part in my life, I was indifferent, I will go to temples with friends and parents whenever they asked me to without thinking twice about it, I always considered that as a hassle but something that I did. When this guy started giving me these philosophical and spiritual speeches, I started reading up about religions as such online very extensively, read the Gita, bible, quran etc, finally convinced myself it is just stupid and became an atheist. Before this, I never had friends who were overtly religious, so it was a new and weird experience for me, and it helped me think it through properly so I am thankful to ISKCON.
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