Chappell?s processes contradicted Indian approach - Srinath

[King]

Re: Chappell?s processes contradicted Indian approach - Srinath

Ravi, Why is that line of thinking true only for Indian cricketers? Try using that line for Indian IT people, or Doctors, or what have you. How is it that Indians are VERY Accountable, that Indians are VERY Professional or that Indians are VERY responsive to Processes? As an example of IT, any Indian IT personnel would tell you that TCS, Infosys, WIPRO etc were, and still are, the leaders in CMM or Six Sigma Processes. Certainly much ahead than their Western counterpart. So are we suggesting that Indian working class is more accountable or responsive than cricketers who may have 2789 excuses for their failure? xxxx

You are comparing oranges with apples here Lurker. Yes there are very influential Indian professionals world over but to compare Indian cricketers with them is a bit off the mark. Kenyan athletes are very professional but you can't expect the same kind of professionalism from a common man from Kenya can ya? CMM Level processes in IT industry are clearly defined but no processes for cricket has been defined and practiced. Coaching a cricket team is way different from directing a corporate. You can't be putting into practice a CMM like process in cricket. They are two different professions. Sports are instinct while the other professions you mentioned are proven arts and science. You can?t be comparing both.

[kumble_rocks]

Re: Chappell?s processes contradicted Indian approach - Srinath

That would be true if we had 11 Sehwags Gambo. As it is most players - Dravid, SRT, Ganguly, Kumble etc etc- are as well read as everyone else.

Sehwag is more educated than SRT . He is a BCom Graduate. Tendulkar is a 12 th pass and not a Graduate.

[jf1gp_1]

Re: Chappell?s processes contradicted Indian approach - Srinath

You are comparing oranges with apples here Lurker. Yes there are very influential Indian professionals world over but to compare Indian cricketers with them is a bit off the mark. Kenyan athletes are very professional but you can't expect the same kind of professionalism from a common man from Kenya can ya? CMM Level processes in IT industry are clearly defined but no processes for cricket has been defined and practiced. Coaching a cricket team is way different from directing a corporate. You can't be putting into practice a CMM like process in cricket. They are two different professions. Sports are instinct while the other professions you mentioned are proven arts and science. You can?t be comparing both.

Point is if a fragile, unfit, one dimensional Dravid can transform his game why cant remaining 10 do the same.

[gator]

Re: Chappell?s processes contradicted Indian approach - Srinath these guys are not village simpletons..... these guys do modelling in their spare time, they have class taste in clothes and places.... and the kind of women, these guys date..... dont tell me, they dont understand accountability and responsibility.... munaf could be the only excuse....

[King]

Re: Chappell?s processes contradicted Indian approach - Srinath

Point is if a fragile' date=' unfit, one dimensional Dravid can transform his game why cant remaining 10 do the same.[/quote'] Fragile, unfit Dravid??? You got to be kidding mate, he is one of the fittest going around. He may not be a top fielder but that doesn't mean he is unfit. As for one dimensional, I want to know what is one dimensional in Rahul Dravid? If you are referring to strokes, he has all strokes in the book and can hit anywhere in the ground. Yes may not be able to slog but slogging is not the only way to score runs. Runs can be scored in many other ways than just slogging over the fence for a six.

[King]

Re: Chappell?s processes contradicted Indian approach - Srinath

these guys are not village simpletons..... these guys do modelling in their spare time, they have class taste in clothes and places.... and the kind of women, these guys date..... dont tell me, they dont understand accountability and responsibility.... munaf could be the only excuse....

I think people have misunderstood the article. No way the article is suggesting the players are not accountable or responsible for the loss. It is looking at why Greg Chappell has not been able to produce results as a coach. This article was not about the players in the first place.

[jf1gp_1]

Re: Chappell?s processes contradicted Indian approach - Srinath

Point is if a fragile' date=' unfit, one dimensional Dravid can transform his game why cant remaining 10 do the same.[/quote'] Fragile, unfit Dravid??? You got to be kidding mate, he is one of the fittest going around. He may not be a top fielder but that doesn't mean he is unfit. As for one dimensional, I want to know what is one dimensional in Rahul Dravid? If you are referring to strokes, he has all strokes in the book and can hit anywhere in the ground. Yes may not be able to slog but slogging is not the only way to score runs. Runs can be scored in many other ways than just slogging over the fence for a six.

I am talking about 98-99 dravid when he lost his ODI spot. Then in 01-02 when he picked up keeping gloves to retain his spot. Can you expect the same from Sehwag ? Infact mcgrath at 36 can improve his fielding is it unreasonable to expect the same from 23 yr old munaf. 7 sachins if given 5 shot at WC will win 1 or 2, bomb in a couple and produce avg results in remaining 7 dravid will atleast take you to semi final in all 5 shots.

[gator]

Re: Chappell?s processes contradicted Indian approach - Srinath

7 sachins if given 5 shot at WC will win 1 or 2, bomb in a couple and produce avg results in remaining 7 dravid will atleast take you to semi final in all 5 shots.

well said.... here is the million dollar question.... where will 7 Gangulies take you??? ... .. .. .. ... .. .. .. .. ..

[gs]

Re: Chappell?s processes contradicted Indian approach - Srinath WTF is that? Hoogly?

[King]

Re: Chappell?s processes contradicted Indian approach - Srinath

I am talking about 98-99 dravid when he lost his ODI spot. Then in 01-02 when he picked up keeping gloves to retain his spot. Can you expect the same from Sehwag ? Infact mcgrath at 36 can improve his fielding is it unreasonable to expect the same from 23 yr old munaf. 7 sachins if given 5 shot at WC will win 1 or 2, bomb in a couple and produce avg results in remaining 7 dravid will atleast take you to semi final in all 5 shots.

True that, guys like Munaf just think they are there to do their quota of bowling that's about it. They can't think beyond that and that truly is worrying. For a Munaf, you have someone like Sreesanth who has fire in the belly and raring to have a go even with the bat. Yes he can't face short balls but can weild a bat all right. Zaheer is showing fair bit of fight with the bat but his fielding is still wanting. It should be made mandatory for the bowlers that are going to be selected to be decent fielders and at least know to defend a ball bowled at the stumps.

[gator]

Re: Chappell?s processes contradicted Indian approach - Srinath

WTF is that? Hoogly?

tht will be the indian team cleaning their gear on the banks of Hoogly(after an exit after the first match) before heading for Ganguly's home for a steamin cuppa....

[DesiChap]

Re: Chappell?s processes contradicted Indian approach - Srinath :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

[Lurker]

Re: Chappell?s processes contradicted Indian approach - Srinath

Kenyan athletes are very professional but you can't expect the same kind of professionalism from a common man from Kenya can ya?

No but I would expect Kenyan athletes to be as professional and hardworking as Athletes from other countries if they have to excel in Athletic world. And you know what Ravi, they are! See Indian athlete are Professionals. Why? Because they get PAID for their services. They are not amateurs who played the game for the love. Indian cricketers are amongst the most paid professionals in the cricketing circle. And I am strictly talking about the purse from matches and all that. If you include ads and campaigns Indian cricketers are the most paid athlete in cricketing world. Doesnt it sound ironical to you that the richest cricketers in the world are NOT professionals? xxxxx

[gs]

Re: Chappell?s processes contradicted Indian approach - Srinath

WTF is that? Hoogly?

tht will be the indian team cleaning their gear on the banks of Hoogly(after an exit after the first match) before heading for Ganguly's home for a steamin cuppa....

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

[indfan]

Re: Chappell?s processes contradicted Indian approach - Srinath "Extreme professionalism doesn?t work in India" - that just about sums it up. Aussies - supremely fit. Indians - almost resistant to high levels of fitness (I know there are exceptions). Team Selection: The Waughs, Bevan, Gillespie, Lehman all got dropped even though they could still play. We've all seen the reaction when Ganguly was asked to step down - in private.

[aghia82]

Re: Chappell?s processes contradicted Indian approach - Srinath Srinath's article has some valid observations about some aspects of the mindset and culture that make the Indian cricketer. The article also shows extreme reticence of Srinath, only recently retired as a player from that milieu, to respond to professional coaching, and to want to be a professional player. Srinath is most probably not alone among the Indian cricketers to harbour such reticence, which Greg Chappell must have found a pain in the butt to deal with. Players should start believing that apparently minor or (to them) irrelevant things like not showing up on time for physical drills are a serious hindrance to achieving world class, and should want to overcome deep-entrenched attitudinal deficiencies. A similar kind of casual approach to training and coaching has been observed elsewhere in the cricket press to be a limiting factor in the West Indies, that poses barriers to the W.Indies players to actualize their tremendous potential fully in performance. In another article on this forum about Ian Chappel's recent writeup on Sachin Tendulkar, someone had responded saying that Ian C wrote it with a tacit, underlying agenda to help his brother Greg C. However much truth there could be to that suspicion, it deflects consideration at face value of what I thought was a well-reasoned and rather timely article. By the same reasoning as the poster who suspected Ian C's hidden agenda, I could say that Srinath himself has a hidden agenda to seize an opportunity to insert himself in the Indian coaching scenario, and has written this article with fake sagacity to come across as deeply empathetic to the Indian team and its psyche.

[Chandan]

Re: Chappell?s processes contradicted Indian approach - Srinath

Looks like it is a profession as far as raking in millions, but stops being a profession when we demand performance. .

Terrible thinking Yoda. So you've forgotten that the same bunch of players had reached WC finals last time? There must be something wrong somewhere because of which they couild not perform this time. We must find that reason.

[chanakya]

Re: Chappell?s processes contradicted Indian approach - Srinath maybe the process chappel followed was flawed. Just because it was a process does not mean that the process was correct.

[novpj]

Re: Chappell?s processes contradicted Indian approach - Srinath lets face it a lot of the players in the team have aged before our eyes and cant perform at the same level as in 2003 so its useless to compare 2003 performance to 2007. The problem is that these players have aged but we still remember the past and hence expected a lot from them. IMO Chappell actually brought an Australian toughness to the team. There are several instances (2nd innings in the 3 rd test in SA comes to mind) when he chose to attack rather than play defensively. However, in all such instances our players were found wanting. May be its his fault too that he didnt realize the crap level of talent he had on the team and hence shld have played defensively in those situations. But I look at Gilchrist and Hayden flay Pollock and Ntini. I look at Styris and Oram pace there innings as the situation demand and wonder if our talent level is so bad that we cant match the other teams. I actually believe that a part of this is not talent but lack of professionalism. Look at cricinfo acrticle with interview with Oram after the WI match and how he talked about the level of effort he has put in the nets to come back from injury and to improve his bowling. This kind of commitment is sorely lacking in Indian crikcet and ex-players like Srinath are apologists for current players. We can either be organized and professional and set ourselves to win most of the times or we can remain as we are and back our natural talent and win a few times but will never become consistent. This is the choice that Indian cricket faces and I hope in the process of making this choice the administrators realize the outcomes that Srinath way guarantees and decides against it.

[head coach]

Re: Chappell?s processes contradicted Indian approach - Srinath

lets face it a lot of the players in the team have aged before our eyes and cant perform at the same level as in 2003 so its useless to compare 2003 performance to 2007. The problem is that these players have aged but we still remember the past and hence expected a lot from them. IMO Chappell actually brought an Australian toughness to the team. There are several instances (2nd innings in the 3 rd test in SA comes to mind) when he chose to attack rather than play defensively. However, in all such instances our players were found wanting. May be its his fault too that he didnt realize the crap level of talent he had on the team and hence shld have played defensively in those situations. But I look at Gilchrist and Hayden flay Pollock and Ntini. I look at Styris and Oram pace there innings as the situation demand and wonder if our talent level is so bad that we cant match the other teams. I actually believe that a part of this is not talent but lack of professionalism. Look at cricinfo acrticle with interview with Oram after the WI match and how he talked about the level of effort he has put in the nets to come back from injury and to improve his bowling. This kind of commitment is sorely lacking in Indian crikcet and ex-players like Srinath are apologists for current players. We can either be organized and professional and set ourselves to win most of the times or we can remain as we are and back our natural talent and win a few times but will never become consistent. This is the choice that Indian cricket faces and I hope in the process of making this choice the administrators realize the outcomes that Srinath way guarantees and decides against it.

Cricketers make tons of money these days that makes it possible for any youngster to consider it as a career or living. Take for example Sreesanth, after the first year he got his contract signed and was making 62 lakhs per year. Isnt this enough to consider it as a full time thing? I agree with novpj about the examples he has used. In Indian team Pathan with his batting, Dhoni, Yuvaraj and Dravid were able to understand the "need based batting" that Chappell tried to instill rest of them just couldnt follow it. If they can take those good lessons learned and apply it in days coming it'll serve good for India. Chappell should quit even if an offer is extended just because his service is not appreciated by a majority of people in India and that'll create unwanted reports appearing in newspaper with columnists writing all sorts of stuffs for money!