7 seniors likely to be dropped for Bangladesh Tour

[Dhondy]

Re: 7 seniors likely to be dropped for Bangladesh Tour Gambo, you are not answering the inherent point here. When was the last time Sachin delivered when the chips were down, under pressure, a knock that made a significant difference to the outcome of the match? Answer that. That's the crux of this discussion.

[KGWicK]

Re: 7 seniors likely to be dropped for Bangladesh Tour

My guess: Bowling : Zaheer Bhajji Agarkar Batting Ganguly Tendulkar

Why is Bhajji still considered? What has he done recently? The thing I hate about our team and country is people look at the past record and moments and not present. Seriously he needs to be dropped and we need some young talented spinner.

[Bumper]

Re: 7 seniors likely to be dropped for Bangladesh Tour

Last 15 Test Matches: [code:1:426c3d8219] Player Mat Runs HS BatAv 100 50 W BB BowlAv 5w Ct St Sachin 15 789 109 34.30 1 5 2 1/30 112.50 0 10 0 Dravid 15 1280 146 55.65 3 8 - - - - 19 0 Ganguly 15 733 101 36.65 1 4 2 1/14 102.50 0 9 0 Sehwag 15 891 254 35.64 2 2 11 3/33 28.45 0 12 0 Yuvraj 15 575 122 28.75 1 2 0 - - 0 19 0 Jafer 15 1022 212 36.50 3 6 2 2/18 9.00 0 13 0 Laxman 15 777 104 35.31 2 5 - - - - 13 0 [/code:1:426c3d8219]

Its better to pick a time period (as opposed to no. of tests -- as many factors such as injury, player's dropping from the side etc could influence the no. of tests) for comparison. These numbers dont tell us much. If anything, it only makes a case for dropping SRT stronger. Tell me what is the most frequently cited reason to include SRT in the team. He is an all time great, he's experienced, he's a match winner etc, something that cannot be said about juniors replacing him -- fair enuff. But he hasnt lived up to those billings has he ? Sample these: In the last few years: a) In difficult batting conditions, SRT never succeeded b) In the rare occassions he succeeds, usually 2 or 3 of our batters do well as well and the conditions are usually in favor of the batsman. c) The bigger the occassion, the worse is his performance d) Ganguly who was equally mediocre, was dropped & has earned his comeback by strong performances in his latest tour. The numbers above indicate, only Yuvraj, who is yet to establish himself, is worse than him. I am willing to give up this great player & replace him with a potent junior. Guess what, India wont lose any more badly or win one less game than it already does with that junior.

[Gambit]

Re: 7 seniors likely to be dropped for Bangladesh Tour

Gambo, you are not answering the inherent point here. When was the last time Sachin delivered when the chips were down, under pressure, a knock that made a significant difference to the outcome of the match? Answer that. That's the crux of this discussion.

55 v Australia 2004 I guess.

[Bumper]

Re: 7 seniors likely to be dropped for Bangladesh Tour

And in your own example, the knocks u points were in 2002, 2003. Its almost 3 years since then. What has he done in this time, worthy of his supposed greatness ? Should we continue to accomodate the mediocrity of his Highness because he was 'once up on a time' a great batsman ? .

Bumper I've given examples till 2004. If you've forgotten. I must remind you that he was operated for that tennis elbow in 2005, returned for just 3 test series in which he was not fully fit and had to be operated again in 2006 for shoulder. Should we not give him time to recover? If he does not perform in BD, England and Australia...drop him! But it is unfair to expect a person to deliver immediately after his injury! He is NOT GOD, just a human being, remember!

I have already agreed that he can be allowed to play two more test series against big opponents. This debate started only after calls for dropping him were deemed unreasonable and unfair, citing his greatness as an excuse. Going back to your reasons, am not sure, what u are trying to prove here ? So what if he's injured. How come he walks into the team without having to prove his fitness or form ? He's injured, he's old etc arent excuses for bad performance. May be he should wait until his form and fitness improves & make a come back then. If he poops wearing our national colors, he'll be criticized regardless of his fitness. People justify his inclusion in the side when he's half fit, citing his greatness & then promptly use his injury as an excuse for his poor performance. Hey, u cant have it both ways. :hic:

[Guest dada_rocks]

Re: 7 seniors likely to be dropped for Bangladesh Tour in lahore odi.. noone else cud have done what he did in a batting condition totally stacked against batsmen

[Bumper]

Re: 7 seniors likely to be dropped for Bangladesh Tour ^ Tests only discussion this. He would deserve a spot in ODI XI even now. But theres no point in him playing ODIs anylonger. If he does, he'll cut short his career very fast. If he has it in him, he can come back into the ODI XI in 2010 & make one last attempt in the 2011 world cup. Thats quite far away to even think about currently.

[Gambit]

Re: 7 seniors likely to be dropped for Bangladesh Tour Bumper, you are not going to convince me and I sure am not going to convince you. So let's end this. For you SRT is probably the 4th or 5th best Indian test bat of all time. For me, he is among the top 10 international test bats of all time.

[Bumper]

Re: 7 seniors likely to be dropped for Bangladesh Tour ^Gambit, am sure u'd agree on this one atleast. You, me & most Indian fans in this board, all started following cricket seriously in the 90s and SRT played a big role in that. We all were told by every cricket expert that he is the greatest since Bradman. Being a sport starved nation, we were all excited to have an unparalleled genius in our hands. But over the years SRT's performances have waned. Some like me have adjusted their opinions on him, but others, have not come to grips with the fact that he is simply not as good as what we all thought he was. Am sure no matter how many more mediocre years he has from now on, u would still rate him for what he did in the 90s, fair comment ? If thats your stand, i respect that, but i dont think its right.

[Anakin]

Re: 7 seniors likely to be dropped for Bangladesh Tour

Gambo, you are not answering the inherent point here. When was the last time Sachin delivered when the chips were down, under pressure, a knock that made a significant difference to the outcome of the match? Answer that. That's the crux of this discussion.

The only test won in SAF, and quite a few good ODI knocks since 04

[Anakin]

Re: 7 seniors likely to be dropped for Bangladesh Tour But agree with the "intelligent" ones around, there is no place of mafia godfather in cricket. And along with him those who spread lies like he worked the hardest in nets and has a good attitude should be brought down as well. Let's all praise the satyabadi Chappell for bringing this to our attention.

[yoda]

Re: 7 seniors likely to be dropped for Bangladesh Tour

But agree with the "intelligent" ones around' date=' there is no place of mafia godfather in cricket. And along with him those who spread lies like he worked the hardest in nets and has a good attitude should be brought down as well. Let's all praise the satyabadi Chappell for bringing this to our attention.[/quote'] no let's keep it simple. let's support the movement to get younger players so these 30 somethings who can't perform to their hype level can take some much needed "rest".

[Anakin]

Re: 7 seniors likely to be dropped for Bangladesh Tour Of course, Raina, uthappa, dhoni are the old ones too who have never been given chances and thus never known to suck worse

[yoda]

Re: 7 seniors likely to be dropped for Bangladesh Tour

Of course' date=' Raina, uthappa, dhoni are the old ones too who have never been given chances and thus never known to suck worse[/quote'] they are not the only ones in the country. and yes, these guys also can do well if they know their place is not in danger. and anyways, aren't we getting tired watching these oldies fail? let's atleast see the new ones fail for change.

[Anakin]

Re: 7 seniors likely to be dropped for Bangladesh Tour They've been failing even more than the oldies. But I agree with you. But again the point is these oldies just failed in ONE crucial match against BD, even couple of months ago they were playing very superbly. One match suddenly doesn't change everything.

[yoda]

Re: 7 seniors likely to be dropped for Bangladesh Tour

They've been failing even more than the oldies. But I agree with you. But again the point is these oldies just failed in ONE crucial match against BD' date=' even couple of months ago they were playing very superbly. One match suddenly doesn't change everything.[/quote'] one match? how about two this WC and pretty much every 4th quarter in tests where the game has been on the line.

[Chandan]

Re: 7 seniors likely to be dropped for Bangladesh Tour

Going back to your reasons' date=' am not sure, what u are trying to prove here ? So what if he's injured. How come he walks into the team without having to prove his fitness or form ? He's injured, he's old etc arent excuses for bad performance. May be he should wait until his form and fitness improves & make a come back then. If he poops wearing our national colors, he'll be criticized regardless of his fitness. [/quote'] Fine. I don't mind criticism. But to say that on the basis of these last two years' performance he should retire at the age of 33 is a bit over the top. Every cricketer takes time to hit the straps after coming back from an injury, be it anyone. So I'm not going to say that Sachin should retire citing the stats of last 15 tests. I think he has this year from me. If he fires, well and good. If not, I too may join the chorus of "Sachin should retire". Now you've asked, "how come he is in the team without being fully fit?". This question has to be asked from the system. How come they let a Sachin suffering from huge back injury, play the crucial tests at Chennai , Delhi and Kolkata vs Pak in 1999? How come a player was allowed to play the whole WC with a broken finger in 2003? Same way, how could they let a player play despite tennis elbow in two tests vs Australia in 2004, 3 tests vs Pak in 2005? This is the fault of the system and players just bring the message to us sent out by the system. What do we do? Instead of criticizing the message-sender, we shoot the messanger!!

[Chandan]

Re: 7 seniors likely to be dropped for Bangladesh Tour Anyway, I didn't want to get into all this. I was merely explaing to Radhika that its not just last 1 or two years that people have been taking pot-shots at Sachin. It has been happening since media got this ridiculous power to hire every man and his dog to give their view on Indian cricket in print or on TV which is last 5 years or so.

[Bumper]

Re: 7 seniors likely to be dropped for Bangladesh Tour Look, every player is responsible for his fitness. If he is not fit & is concerned it will impact his performance, he must not declare himself fit. No system will force a player to play when he himself does not think he is fit. Sachin played because he declared himself fit. As simple as that. Makes u wonder, what the ulterior motive of the player is, doesnt it ? Is he playing to satisfy some min criteria for sponsorships or is he really interested in helping us win ? Whatever the reason, if he plays for India and fails, fitness or age should NOT be an excuse.

[Chandan]

Re: 7 seniors likely to be dropped for Bangladesh Tour

Whatever the reason, if he plays for India and fails, fitness or age should NOT be an excuse.

I've not given an excuse. I've cited this problem when he succeeded despite being unfit. Chennai test 1999? WC 2003? If he had ulterior motive, why did the system let him succeed in doing so? What is the use of a system then? You're again shooting the messanger!