Hulks eclipsing small batsmen like Sachin and me: Ponting

[The Outsider]

Re: Hulks eclipsing small batsmen like Sachin and me: Ponting

IMO Ponting has been the best batsman over the past 3-4 years

No doubts about that. But the discussion has meandered off to the best of the generation. And in that respect if you cant perform against the best spin attack in their backyard you loose a lot of points.

[ali0786]

Re: Hulks eclipsing small batsmen like Sachin and me: Ponting I have to agree with that. Only problem for Ponting has been his spin problem, whereas Sachin has always performed in seaming conditions... Ponting would probably be after Tendulkar for me in batting class, and then Lara..

[Bumper]

Re: Hulks eclipsing small batsmen like Sachin and me: Ponting

Good bowling attacks, for example. The Dravidathon at Adelaide did not have McGrath and Warne.

No u missed my point. I did list Dravid's two 50s vs WI, even tho, WI attack is not in the Aussie class. The two 50s, came against tremendous odds, when batting conditions were dreadful & earned us a historic series win in WI. Even Lara praised those two 50s as among the best he has ever seen. Now lets look at your 155 in Chennai. Home conditions against a team, we have beaten to pulp for the last 30 years. This after a great start (so no pressure of pooping). Atleast if some big bowlers were involved the odds would have been bigger. With no real bowlers offering a challenge (except Warney), the odds were NOT comparable to the ones i listed. Dont u agree ? If not, tell me why u think this innings is comparable in class, pressure & occassion to the ones i listed ?

I accept Ponting as a great batsman even before this post or your arguments. There is no denying Ponting is a great batsman IMO.

You do. But many here dont. They think its blasphemy to utter his name alongside SRT & Lara.

My personal point of view is that both are better because they scored when their team sucked and scored in very alien conditions.

But thats subjective though, hence simply an opinion, that i cannot statistically dispute.

Bumper, yaar, I can define some arbitrary criterias by which none of Ponting's knocs would qualify. At these times we have to resort to guys who were awestruck by Tendulkar in Aus in '92 or by the greatest batsman of alltime including him in his all time XI and none of the contemporary player.

Why is it arbitrary Shwetabh ? Because it shows SRT's fallacies ? Al am asking for is a big knock when the chips are down that led us to a victory ? Isnt this not something u expect from a great player ? If not, what is the difference between mere mortals & the greats ? IMO, greats do what mortals can only dream of and do it more consistently. I have no comments on what Bradman said. Bradman included Barry Richards in his starting XI, but no Brian Lara. There are many other things u can dispute about his team. Thats for later.

The same culture and I can point to many knocks by these guys which went in vain, nothing more biting than the 221 Gavaskar score at the Oval to see India draw the match with 8 runs remaining and two wickets in hand after he left the crease with 40 odd remaining and 7 wickets in hand. And that is the second best knock played by an Indian IMO, even though India did not win that test.

Again, Shwetabh, if 221 was the only knock Sunny played, i wouldnt be comfortable declaring him a great. It is because he showed up many other times, when the team needed him, his stakes go up. Repeating what i said, bottom line is, greats do what mortals never manage and do it more consistently.

[Bumper]

Re: Hulks eclipsing small batsmen like Sachin and me: Ponting

IMO Ponting has been the best batsman over the past 3-4 years

No doubts about that. But the discussion has meandered off to the best of the generation. And in that respect if you cant perform against the best spin attack in their backyard you loose a lot of points.

Punter is fast repairing his reputation. His latest series vs Lanka, in the most dreadful spin pitches, against the greatest bowler ever, he averaged 50+. I dont have even the slightest doubts, that he will do well, the next time he tours India. BTW, what is SRT's average vs Pakistan & SA ? What is Lara's average vs India ? They are not too great either

[Anakin]

Re: Hulks eclipsing small batsmen like Sachin and me: Ponting

Wahi to bola Avi yaar' date=' par test mein pehli baar Sidhu ne hi maari Warne ki.[/quote']Agree, but half the battle was won in that beating in the practice match imo. Siddhu could play spin What a waste of time, throwing away some superb knocks just because the result wasn't a victory. Lucky VVS, he had bhajji on fire.

[The Outsider]

Re: Hulks eclipsing small batsmen like Sachin and me: Ponting

No u missed my point. I did list Dravid's two 50s vs WI, even tho, WI attack is not in the Aussie class. The two 50s, came under tremendous odds, when batting conditions were dreadful & earned us a historic series win in WI. Even Lara praised those two 50s as among the best he has ever seen.

No doubt about it. Those two 50s were one of the best knocks I have seen in test cricket. But according to your parameters they would have been no where if Harbhajan had not tkaen those 5 wickets in a jiffy or Kumble had not not worked his stuff. On a slight tangent, one of the best innings that Dravid played came in a drawn test ie. 148 in Johannesburg.

Home conditions against a team, we have beaten to pulp for the last 30 years. This after a great start (so no pressure of pooping). Atleast if some big bowlers were involved the odds would have been bigger. With no real bowlers offering a challenge (except Warney), the odds were NOT comparable to the ones i listed. Dont u agree ? If not, tell me why u think this innings is comparable in class, pressure & occassion to the ones i listed ?

Yes, I would rank Dravid's 233 higher as I have done in my top 10 list but Tendulkar's 155 also figures there. But you are just trying to denounce a superb effort with the bat here. Sure, we had been beating these guys for a long time at home, but when they came here they weren't the Aussies of the 80s and we could have easily lost to them, like we eventualy did in' 04. Its comparable because it was due to that innings and Sidhu's onslaught ealrier that we gained dominance over one of the best bowlers of all time.

Again, Shwetabh, if 221 was the only knock Sunny played, i wouldnt be comfortable declaring him a great. It is because he showed up many other times, when the team needed him, his stakes go up.

I think that innings and the 96 at Bangalore were Gavaskar's best innings, both did not win us matches. One of them we lost as a matter of fact.

[The Outsider]

Re: Hulks eclipsing small batsmen like Sachin and me: Ponting

BTW, what is SRT's average vs Pakistan & SA ? What is Lara's average vs India ? They are not too great either

When they hit the teens lets continue this discussion? :hic:

[Bumper]

Re: Hulks eclipsing small batsmen like Sachin and me: Ponting

BTW, what is SRT's average vs Pakistan & SA ? What is Lara's average vs India ? They are not too great either

When they hit the teens lets continue this discussion? :hic:

Even Gary Sobers averages in the 20s vs NZ. Almost every great bat has such an anamolous average vs one team. Shwetabh do this in your spare time. Pick an all time great bat of your choice (Sobers, Sunny, Viv, Greg Chappell, Bradman, Lara, Punter, Dravid etc) Look at their averages against all teams & pick a batsman that averages less than 40 against TWO teams (SRT averages less than 40 against two of the three best bowling attacks of his times :hic: ) Last time i tried this exercise (long ago), SRT was the lone man on the list :hic:

[The Outsider]

Re: Hulks eclipsing small batsmen like Sachin and me: Ponting

SRT averages less than 40 against the two best bowling attacks of his times

I never knew Australia was excluded in your best bowling attacks despite having two all time greats in their ranks.

[Bumper]

Re: Hulks eclipsing small batsmen like Sachin and me: Ponting ^Sorry i meant to say two of the three best attacks of his times

[The Outsider]

Re: Hulks eclipsing small batsmen like Sachin and me: Ponting How about showing me one "great" batsman in the list who averages in the teens in a particular country depsite having played 10+ innings there?

[Bumper]

Re: Hulks eclipsing small batsmen like Sachin and me: Ponting ^10+ ? Punter has played only 8 tests in India ? Agreed thats a poor average. But IMO, Punter Mark II will correct that record, when he tours India this time around (I really hope he doesnt as an Indian fan, but i dont think he will fail)

[The Outsider]

Re: Hulks eclipsing small batsmen like Sachin and me: Ponting Innings, bumper not tests. But even in tests he'll have to do something extraordninary to get that average in the 20s forget about 30s which is where the likes of Tendulkar and Lara average no matter where.

[Bumper]

Re: Hulks eclipsing small batsmen like Sachin and me: Ponting

Innings' date=' bumper not tests. But even in tests he'll have to do something extraordninary to get that average in the 20s forget about 30s which is where the likes of Tendulkar and Lara average no matter where.[/quote'] Either that or SRT can catchup with Punter when he tours Australia :hic:

[kumble_rocks]

Re: Hulks eclipsing small batsmen like Sachin and me: Ponting

Innings' date=' bumper not tests. But even in tests he'll have to do something extraordninary to get that average in the 20s forget about 30s which is where the likes of Tendulkar and Lara average no matter where.[/quote'] Good Point . I would like to add one thing though which may be considered as a dent in Sachin's great career . Sachin actually averaged only 32.91 in 7 tests from his debut until the time the two W's retired . During this time frame from '89 to '03 Pakistani attack was one the best in the world and had the two W's and world class spinners Mushy, Qadir and Saqlain in it's fold during various times.