Jaswant Singh saga - Jinnah, expulsion etc etc.

[Lurker]

Never thought I would see the day Jaswant Singh would be expelled from BJP. True he went too far overboard with Jinnah support, was even worse considering his BJP background, but even then expulsion is a bit tough me thinks. With Vasundhara Raje also facing the music and the recent debacle in election is BJP slowly moving towards demise? For all my distaste of Vajpayee's handling of Kandahar episode Jaswant Singh still came across as one of the decent figures. Sad development this.

[gs]

I will always remember Jaswant Singh as the man who fixed the Indo US relationship after the Pokhran nuke tests. The nuclear agreement is a culmination of his diplomatic efforts almost 10 years ago. Indo US relationship would never be so cordial (SRK episode notwithstanding :--D) if not for him. Kandahar incident is a blot on his career, but still cant think of a way how the situation could have been resolved in a better manner without sacrificing innocent passengers once the plane reached Afghanistan.

[Lurker]

^^ I would disagree on Kandahar saga but atleast Jaswant Singh manned enough to take the brunt of criticism unlike Advani who kept maintaining he was not taken into confidence. I am still surprised as to leader of his stature got kicked out over a book. Sure I dont like his utterance about Jinnah but this is a free country with freedom of speech for crying out loud.

[gs]

^^ I would disagree on Kandahar saga but atleast Jaswant Singh manned enough to take the brunt of criticism unlike Advani who kept maintaining he was not taken into confidence. I am still surprised as to leader of his stature got kicked out over a book. Sure I dont like his utterance about Jinnah but this is a free country with freedom of speech for crying out loud.

Completely agree. Still cant understand some of the old timers' (like AB Vajpayee, IK Gujral, LK Advani, Jaswant Singh etc.) obsession with Jinnah. FFS, the man divided the country, drove an everlasting wedge between the 2 communities and created a cesspool from which most of today's security problems emanate from.

[Lurker]

Completely agree. Still cant understand some of the old timers' (like AB Vajpayee' date= IK Gujral, LK Advani, Jaswant Singh etc.) obsession with Jinnah. FFS, the man divided the country, drove an everlasting wedge between the 2 communities and created a cesspool from which most of today's security problems emanate from.

My personal opinion is this is neccessarily down to 2 factors: 1) BJP leaders try to portray Nehru in bad light, maybe to take a potshot at Congress, or maybe because they want to portray him as a weak willed scheming leader. One way to do is to show Jinnah was not all wrong. 2) They want to get closer to Indian Muslims somehow although I am willing to say I may be wrong on this one. That said I put Vajpayee away from such nonsense really.

[Ram]

Pardon the language, but he's an old fart. He's of no use to the party, even when he was in it. However, what is ironic is that BJP is willing to make a mass murderer like Narendra Modi its star campaigner, while it expels one of its senior most members for his comments about Jinnah.. lol..

[seedhi]

Good riddance to bad rubbish. Jaswant Singh may have had his glory days during Vajpayee's time. But he is more or less responsible for the debacle of BJP in Rajasthan. Plus it has reduced the average age of the BJP top leadership and eliminated a constant source of embarrassment to the party.

[gs]

My personal opinion is this is neccessarily down to 2 factors: 1) BJP leaders try to portray Nehru in bad light, maybe to take a potshot at Congress, or maybe because they want to portray him as a weak willed scheming leader. One way to do is to show Jinnah was not all wrong. 2) They want to get closer to Indian Muslims somehow although I am willing to say I may be wrong on this one. That said I put Vajpayee away from such nonsense really.

Without getting into Cong vs BJP debate: 1. In my opinion, both Nehru and Jinnah were nuts in their own right. Proving one is a bigger nut than the other doesnt establish anything! 2. No matter how hard they try BJP will never have any muslim vote bank. So they better focus on Hindus and other minorities if they indeed want to play vote bank politics. Dont think muslims fancy Cong either, but given the choices, they will vote for the party that they perceive is less harmful to them.

[seedhi]

Never thought I would see the day Jaswant Singh would be expelled from BJP. True he went too far overboard with Jinnah support, was even worse considering his BJP background, but even then expulsion is a bit tough me thinks. With Vasundhara Raje also facing the music and the recent debacle in election is BJP slowly moving towards demise? For all my distaste of Vajpayee's handling of Kandahar episode Jaswant Singh still came across as one of the decent figures. Sad development this.

An array of BJP leaders have been thrown out in the past - Uma Bharti, Kalyan Singh, ML Khurana, Govindacharya etc. At least these people had a mass base (except Govindacharya). Jaswant Singh has zero political base and quite useless for the party really.

[Lurker]

An array of BJP leaders have been thrown out in the past - Uma Bharti' date=' Kalyan Singh, ML Khurana, Govindacharya etc. At least these people had a mass base (except Govindacharya). Jaswant Singh has zero political base and quite useless for the party really.[/quote'] Lets check the names. Uma Bharti a proven nutcase who was an inch short of insanity that Sadhvi Ritambhara was. To kick her out was only the correct thing to do especially after her histrionics. Kalyan Singh was leader without substance who came to powe riding the Kamandal brigade. Mass base?? The man has been languishing behind Mulayam, Mayawati and even Rahul Gandhi! What mass base are you on about here? Govindacharya was a thinker, a rational person but no political leader. Only Khurana was a politician of reckoning. But even he would not compare to Jaswant Singh in terms of stature. I mean Jaswant Singh ended as high up as Foreign Minister, what did ML Khurana ever do? CM of Delhi? There is also a key difference in the sense Uma Bharti, Kalyan Singh, Khurana they all criticized Advani and paid heavily(not sure abt Govindacharya), in case of Jaswant Singh that has hardly been the case. xxx

[yoda]

He should be expelled from the country for his book. Jinnah my ass!

[gs]

Advani's image has taken such a beating lately, BJP might be better served if he retires. BJP as a party needs to be rebuilt along another leader with mass appeal, dare I say Modi. Right or wrong, he is the man who will bring back the hindu votes for BJP. Cant think of any other leader in their ranks who can connect with all echelons of the society like he does. Murmurs about Gujarat riots in the aftermath of Godhra carnage will die down or swept under the carpet just like the Delhi riots after Indira Gandhi was assasinated.

[seedhi]

Lets check the names. Uma Bharti a proven nutcase who was an inch short of insanity that Sadhvi Ritambhara was. To kick her out was only the correct thing to do especially after her histrionics. Kalyan Singh was leader without substance who came to powe riding the Kamandal brigade. Mass base?? The man has been languishing behind Mulayam, Mayawati and even Rahul Gandhi! What mass base are you on about here? Govindacharya was a thinker, a rational person but no political leader. Only Khurana was a politician of reckoning. But even he would not compare to Jaswant Singh in terms of stature. I mean Jaswant Singh ended as high up as Foreign Minister, what did ML Khurana ever do? CM of Delhi? There is also a key difference in the sense Uma Bharti, Kalyan Singh, Khurana they all criticized Advani and paid heavily(not sure abt Govindacharya), in case of Jaswant Singh that has hardly been the case. xxx

Uma Bharti won the MP elections for the BJP almost single handedly with a 3/4 majority. Kalyan Singh's departure from the BJP has led to the abysmal and rotten state of the party in UP. Do I even need to talk about Delhi and how the BJP is faring there in the absence of Khurana? All of the above were mass leaders who could win a state for the BJP on their own. But they were expelled and it did hurt the BJP especially in UP and Delhi. Jaswant Singh on the other hand is of no use to the BJP. His supposed stature is confined to the India Habitat Centre. Electorally, he makes no difference. Infact it would be better if the BJP cuts down to size these supposed "intellectuals" and hand over the lead to real mass leaders like Modi, Chauhan, Raman Singh, Yeduriappa, Arjun Munda who actually slog it out during the elections.

[Lurker]

Uma Bharti won the MP elections for the BJP almost single handedly with a 3/4 majority. Kalyan Singh's departure from the BJP has led to the abysmal and rotten state of the party in UP. Do I even need to talk about Delhi and how the BJP is faring there in the absence of Khurana? All of the above were mass leaders who could win a state for the BJP on their own. But they were expelled and it did hurt the BJP especially in UP and Delhi. Jaswant Singh on the other hand is of no use to the BJP. His supposed stature is confined to the India Habitat Centre. Electorally, he makes no difference. Infact it would be better if the BJP cuts down to size these supposed "intellectuals" and hand over the lead to real mass leaders like Modi, Chauhan, Raman Singh, Yeduriappa, Arjun Munda who actually slog it out during the elections.

You really think Kalyan Singh or Uma Bharti or Khurana would make BJP win any of the mentioned states today? You have got to be seriously kidding me. They all rode Kamandal Rath, as I mentioned earlier. Their time has come and gone.

[kabira]

Pardon the language, but he's an old fart. He's of no use to the party, even when he was in it. >However, what is ironic is that BJP is willing to make a mass murderer like Narendra Modi its star campaigner, while it expels one of its senior most members for his comments about Jinnah.. lol..

I found it offensive from someone who has no clue about Gujarat Politics and Narendra Modi. You have no right to malign democratically chosen and what makes you think he is mass murderer??

[kabira]

its natural decision. If you work in a company and publish something that is against your idealogy, you need to be shown the door. What would have Congress done had some senior guy published similar book against Nehru. I am sure he would have been expelled.

[seedhi]

You really think Kalyan Singh or Uma Bharti or Khurana would make BJP win any of the mentioned states today? You have got to be seriously kidding me. They all rode Kamandal Rath' date=' as I mentioned earlier. Their time has come and gone.[/quote']Uma Bharti won the MP elections for the BJP in late 2003, there was no rath at that time. In Delhi, Khurana did not ride any communal wave. He literally built up the party to a victory. The point I am making is not about the usefulness of these people today in the BJP. All I am saying is that the exit of such mass leaders did hurt the BJP much more than the exit of Jaswant Singh is going to. He has absolutely no mass base.

[Lurker]

What would have Congress done had some senior guy published similar book against Nehru. I am sure he would have been expelled.

Actually the true analogy would be what would Congress do if a senior guy published books against Hegdewar or Shyama Prasad Mukherjee. My thinking is they would actually promote him :haha:

[Lurker]

The point I am making is not about the usefulness of these people today in the BJP. All I am saying is that the exit of such mass leaders did hurt the BJP much more than the exit of Jaswant Singh is going to. He has absolutely no mass base.

I find that surprising. In my opinion leaders like Jaswant Singh are a class apart from mass base anyway. I mean "mass" leaders are the one who the nautanki. Laloo, Mulayam, Modi are all mass leaders to me. Folks like Jaswant Singh, Yashwant Sinha, Arun Shourie are what are called statesman, in my opinion. To kick them out for so called mass appeal is sheer ridiculous.

[seedhi]

I find that surprising. In my opinion leaders like Jaswant Singh are a class apart from mass base anyway. I mean "mass" leaders are the one who the nautanki. Laloo, Mulayam, Modi are all mass leaders to me. Folks like Jaswant Singh, Yashwant Sinha, Arun Shourie are what are called statesman, in my opinion. To kick them out for so called mass appeal is sheer ridiculous.

That "nautanki" is what counts in the elections. The strength of a party lies more in its cadres and mass leaders than the so called intellectuals. I mean, what would not the BJP give for a saffron Mulayam or Mayawati. A hundred Arun Shouries or Arun Jaitleys cannot compare to a Narendra Modi, Naveen Patnaik or a Jayalalithaa.