triam Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 I find it really amazing how easy it is for us Indians to swallow mediocre, corrupt men and look for their best qualities. I am not pointing fingers at anyone in particular, I have said the same thing about numerous politicians "Yeah he is corrupt, but he has done so and so, atleast it is better than the others". But unless and until corruptin is eradicated or curbed, we will remain a third world country, because systematic corruption is the cornerstone of a third world country. One thing though, blaming low level Thalisdars and MRO's for corrutpion and excusing the leadership is a joke, there is a reason they are the "leadership", the buck stops there, if they dont lead by example dont except the lower downs to follow anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triam Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 You scare me.. You really do. It is scary I completely agree, but it is nt far fetched for our politicians and their over inflated egos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueBlood Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 I find it really amazing how easy it is for us Indians to swallow mediocre, corrupt men and look for their best qualities. I am not pointing fingers at anyone in particular, I have said the same thing about numerous politicians "Yeah he is corrupt, but he has done so and so, atleast it is better than the others". But unless and until corruptin is eradicated or curbed, we will remain a third world country, because systematic corruption is the cornerstone of a third world country. One thing though, blaming low level Thalisdars and MRO's for corrutpion and excusing the leadership is a joke, there is a reason they are the "leadership", the buck stops there, if they dont lead by example dont except the lower downs to follow anything. May I ask what you are doing to solve the issue of corruption? It's easy to say but getting things done - when reality dawns upon you - it's a different story. It's sort of like saying world peace is solved when everyone in the world is good and are friendly with each other. This is as ridiculous if not more. Do you even know how to political atmosphere works in India? People are given money, liquor and food a few weeks before polls to buy votes. There are seats in states where politicians spend upwards of 100 crores just to get elected. If you want to pass the buck, pass it towards the people who are accepting the money, liquor and others. Don't be ridiculous here, be practical. If you spend 100 crores of your own money to get elected, you will want to earn more than that. It's sort of an investment. That's how politics works today. Stop that where politicians should not have to spend a single penny to get votes and I guarantee you that corruption will stop forever. Do you even know that majority of Indian public doesn't even know that government is a body that gets money from tax payers? To them government is like a private corporation - a different entity - an entity that they are not part of. Be practical for once. It's one thing to have wishful thinking and other to see light of what's happening. I'm out of this as it appears I'm wasting time schooling kids who sit in A/C rooms in the West and not grasping the situation at hand because you have to experience it first hand - I worked in a party office and can tell you first-hand from experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punjabi_khota Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 May I ask what you are doing to solve the issue of corruption? It's easy to say but getting things done - when reality dawns upon you - it's a different story. It's sort of like saying world peace is solved when everyone in the world is good and are friendly with each other. This is as ridiculous if not more. Do you even know how to political atmosphere works in India? People are given money, liquor and food a few weeks before polls to buy votes. There are seats in states where politicians spend upwards of 100 crores just to get elected. If you want to pass the buck, pass it towards the people who are accepting the money, liquor and others. Don't be ridiculous here, be practical. If you spend 100 crores of your own money to get elected, you will want to earn more than that. It's sort of an investment. That's how politics works today. Stop that where politicians should not have to spend a single penny to get votes and I guarantee you that corruption will stop forever. Do you even know that majority of Indian public doesn't even know that government is a body that gets money from tax payers? To them government is like a private corporation - a different entity - an entity that they are not part of. Be practical for once. It's one thing to have wishful thinking and other to see light of what's happening. I'm out of this as it appears I'm wasting time schooling kids who sit in A/C rooms in the West and not grasping the situation at hand because you have to experience it first hand - I worked in a party office and can tell you first-hand from experience. :hysterical::hysterical: So people like YSR get into politics to multiply 100 crore to 1000 crore and so on ? YSR probably made that (or even higher) amount. So basically you are saying that it is impossible for a person to be effective politician in India, and be honest ? Modi would be a counter example to that theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triam Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 May I ask what you are doing to solve the issue of corruption? It's easy to say but getting things done - when reality dawns upon you - it's a different story. It's sort of like saying world peace is solved when everyone in the world is good and are friendly with each other. This is as ridiculous if not more. Do you even know how to political atmosphere works in India? People are given money, liquor and food a few weeks before polls to buy votes. There are seats in states where politicians spend upwards of 100 crores just to get elected. If you want to pass the buck, pass it towards the people who are accepting the money, liquor and others. Don't be ridiculous here, be practical. If you spend 100 crores of your own money to get elected, you will want to earn more than that. It's sort of an investment. That's how politics works today. Stop that where politicians should not have to spend a single penny to get votes and I guarantee you that corruption will stop forever. Do you even know that majority of Indian public doesn't even know that government is a body that gets money from tax payers? To them government is like a private corporation - a different entity - an entity that they are not part of. Be practical for once. It's one thing to have wishful thinking and other to see light of what's happening. I'm out of this as it appears I'm wasting time schooling kids who sit in A/C rooms in the West and not grasping the situation at hand because you have to experience it first hand - I worked in a party office and can tell you first-hand from experience. Easy to judge, I worked in a party office too, was a student leader yada yada in Chennai, have done stupid stuff, have tried to do what I thought was right. I know the ground realities, and I thought I made it clear that I have done the same in the past, it was just an observation, of how cynical even the educated's outlook is towards the political leadership. And regarding the bolded part, they are not corrupt because they spend 100 crores to get elected, they spend 100 crores because they know they can make more than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueBlood Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 And regarding the bolded part, they are not corrupt because they spend 100 crores to get elected, they spend 100 crores because they know they can make more than that. Yes, agreed. As I said many lose after spending that much. That's what motivates them all the more to loot as much money as quickly as possible so that they can recoup their investment and save for next time. The system is that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda Posted September 30, 2009 Share Posted September 30, 2009 BlueBlood, just because we don't have a clue on how to solve the corruption problem in India, it doesn't mean we say it is ok for politicians to swindle crores. Politicians can spend 100s of crores, they do that in the US as well, but it comes from (reasonably) well disclosed list of donors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueBlood Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 BlueBlood, just because we don't have a clue on how to solve the corruption problem in India, it doesn't mean we say it is ok for politicians to swindle crores. Politicians can spend 100s of crores, they do that in the US as well, but it comes from (reasonably) well disclosed list of donors. Reasonably? You kidding me? Even in the US, the lobbyists, Drug companies and big corps donate millions to their candidates. The Steel workers union for example puts their full support behind a candidate usually democrats. Obama and McCain both received equal amounts from Goldman Sachs, AIG etc. Thing is while in US the top corporations have the candidates in their pocket, they are ensured they get bailed out when they are in trouble or have policies that cater to them. What this ensures is that most of these corporations and NGO's will be too big to fail as they are so intertwined politically. The only difference in India and US is while 10% is pocketed by top politicians in India and US (it's a little complicated in US, for example, the corruption is done through 'sweet heart' loans, real estate deals etc. example is Chris Dodd) In India, the rest of the 80% is taken by the middle-men. In fact, there are inch for inch many politicians in India who are too old to be corrupt - they just don't need money. It's the middle-men who eat up the rest. That's the difference here. Even if 100% of the politicians are honest at the top level (ex. Modi) - it will not solve the corruption problem - that's what I'm hinting at here. You want to solve the corruption you need to correct a lot of things in the middle - that's the biggest difference between the West and East. Another big reason for corruption and greed is the transferring of debt for generations. This is without doubt the #1 reason for poverty in Pakistan, Bangladesh and India (some parts). In the West while personal bankruptcy or debt ends with you - it unfairly burdens generations who are pretty much slaves to the situation. Vallabhai Patel did some great things by eliminating this in the South by overthrowing the Nizam rule but this is still wide-spread. In Pakistan and Bangladesh this is insanely rampant as they did not have a Vallabhai Patel who cleaned the slate for people. This is the single biggest cause for politicians and generally people in power to accumulate and amass wealth for generations to prevent their legacy from going through this. It's easy to blame person A (poltician) - that's a cop-out. Understanding the intricacies of how things tick and what's causing the things to happen the way they are happening is a different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Reasonably? You kidding me? Even in the US, the lobbyists, Drug companies and big corps donate millions to their candidates. The Steel workers union for example puts their full support behind a candidate usually democrats. Obama and McCain both received equal amounts from Goldman Sachs, AIG etc. Thing is while in US the top corporations have the candidates in their pocket, they are ensured they get bailed out when they are in trouble or have policies that cater to them. What this ensures is that most of these corporations and NGO's will be too big to fail as they are so intertwined politically. The only difference in India and US is while 10% is pocketed by top politicians in India and US (it's a little complicated in US, for example, the corruption is done through 'sweet heart' loans, real estate deals etc. example is Chris Dodd) In India, the rest of the 80% is taken by the middle-men. In fact, there are inch for inch many politicians in India who are too old to be corrupt - they just don't need money. It's the middle-men who eat up the rest. That's the difference here. Even if 100% of the politicians are honest at the top level - it will not solve the corruption problem - that's what I'm hinting at here. You want to solve the corruption you need to correct a lot of things in the middle - that's the biggest difference between the West and East. It's easy to blame person A (poltician) - that's a cop-out. Understanding the intricacies of how things tick and what's causing the things to happen the way they are happening is a different story. So, who is in charge of the country and has the responsibility to clean up the middle men and the remaining 80%? It is the politicians. The govt is under then. All departments are under them. Law enforcement is under them. Only thing they are not responsible for directly is the private sector, even there they are responsible for ensuring the law is followed. I am surprised anyone will be willing to give a clean chit to these frauds. I am not saying their job is easy, just saying it is their job. BTW when I said (reasonably) wrt to US elections I meant to say reasonably well disclosed, so you at least know who is contributing to whom instead of this big black box in India. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueBlood Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Don't mistake my opinion thinking - I support inaction. Far from it. There definitely is a lot of inaction no question about it, every party is responsible. My reply was for corruption and not for inaction. There we both are in the same page as I know how vote-bank politics has crippled India in situations as important as national security which wouldn't even be a second thought in the West. I'm still at shock how congress pulled off a win after 26/11 terrorist attacks - the party would have been dead had it occurred in the West. Unfathomable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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