Has India gone backwards compared to 90s???

[The Outsider]

Re: Has India gone backwards compared to 90s???

Sehwag is there, playing and has been playing since last 6 years. Is very much a hit and miss player. One 150+ score followed by at least 10-15 single digit score. You call that great??

As an opener the guy averages 50, has scored hundreds in all conditions and against all opposition. Fair enough he has been in terrible form over the last year but he has the potential and bit of hard work can make sure he bounces back. You dont average 50 over 6 years by being hit and miss. And if you are looking for Gavaskar, Tendulkar, and Dravid type of greatness thats not easily found. It was 18 years after Gavakar that Tendulkar came along for instance. But if you are looking for a great player who can average 50 and have a decent record in most conditions and opposition, Sehwag has certainly shown that.

Raina?? Now do not joke. The guy could not face even one short delivery in SA and you expected him to become great?? Maybe on completely flat tracks against a bowling attack like Bermuda!!

His confidence was on an all time low on the SA tour, he is young and has the basic ingredients to become a successful batsman.

Venu?? What glimses of greatness did you see in him? I'm asking because I've watched his international matches as well as few of domestic ones too. Again very good at slaughtering an attack of Orissa but no match for even one international class bowler.

He is probably the most technically correct batsman among the fringe players along with Badrinath. I haven't seen Tiwari. Has a decisive backfoot movement, which is essential to succeed abroad. Pushing him into ODIs that too at number 6/7 and dropping him, what did that achieve? He has done well on India A tours and infact scored a double hundred the fourth innings against England A against a bowling attack which had Simon Jones and Sajid Mahmood in it: http://cricketarchive.com/Archive/Scorecards/79/79129.html

[King]

Re: Has India gone backwards compared to 90s??? Shwetabh I would agree with Sehwag as one of the finds considering he has runs in every part of the world but Raina and Venugopal Rao is a bit of a stretch. Raina failed in WI and South Africa. I don't see any greatness in him. He is a decent bat and can improve but international cricket is every 18 year old's cake walk. I would say Sehwag is a good find while Yuvraj and Dhoni are decent finds. Yuvraj is the most talented but has been very inconsistent. Talent counts for nothing if runs are not there to show. Similarly Dhoni can pack a punch but definitely no better than say a McCullum or Boucher. I'm quite excited about Dhoni's keeping skills though. He is way better than the ones we have seen in this century. Match these finds with other countries barring Pakistan and you will see the rest are producing way better players than India. There must sincerely be something wrong with the system.

[Chandan]

Re: Has India gone backwards compared to 90s??? Agree Ravi. And reason for this is extremely poor, flimsy and neglected domestic cricket structure of India.

[The Outsider]

Re: Has India gone backwards compared to 90s???

Shwetabh I would agree with Sehwag as one of the finds considering he has runs in every part of the world but Raina and Venugopal Rao is a bit of a stretch. Raina failed in WI and South Africa. I don't see any greatness in him. He is a decent bat and can improve but international cricket is every 18 year old's cake walk.

Well, I was asked who can be potentially great players from that list and my reading is that Raina and Rao have the potential. Raina failed in a couple of series abroad at the age of 18. IMO, he had been drafted into the team way too early in our fetish to discover another Tendulkar while Badrinath has still not got a chance because he is considered too old at 24. He is another player who has it in him to make it to the top. They would probably not turn out to be Tendulkar and Dravid but have a lot of raw materials to become successful test cricketers. Remember how Hayden was taken apart by the WI pacers or how Martyn got dropped for his impetiousity but came back to have successful careers. Unfortunately, in our setup if you dont break in by 25 tops, you might as well forget about playing cricket for India.

[Chandan]

Re: Has India gone backwards compared to 90s???

Remember how Hayden was taken apart by the WI pacers or how Martyn got dropped for his impetiousity but came back to have successful careers. Unfortunately, in our setup if you dont break in by 25 tops, you might as well forget about playing cricket for India.

No point in comparing australia's cricketers with Indian cricketers because the cricket is played in both the countries with a approach which is in complete contrast with each other. While Australian domestic cricket keeps on producing talent after talent on a routine basis , we can only pray for 2 or three talents; even that has stopped from our flimsy domestic cricket structure. Australian cricket board has a vision and it works according to a plan, taking ull care of its players even if it earns less money than BCCI. There is no vision, no planning in Indian cricket, and the Indian board keeps on looking for a chance when it can cut even the international cricketers to size!! It is living in a dreamland if we suppose Raina might to play like Hayden after 4-5 years. Whatever, talent or spark he has now will be extinguished in the coming years and he too would become stale like 420 other FC cricketers!!

[yoda]

Re: Has India gone backwards compared to 90s??? Two more differences: Australian players know when to retire. Playing till you have extracted the last juice out of your body is the mantra of Indian players. Australian selectors know when to ask non-performing seniors to take a hike. If god forbid our selectors even get such an idea, you will have effigy burning, voodoo prayers, parliamentary uproar, booing your own team, etc.

[Chandan]

Re: Has India gone backwards compared to 90s???

If god forbid our selectors even get such an idea, you will have effigy burning, voodoo prayers, parliamentary uproar, booing your own team, etc.

As if they care for such things!!!

[The Outsider]

Re: Has India gone backwards compared to 90s??? Chandan, you asked me about potentially successful test batsmen from the list and I gave me picks with whatever reasoning I have for them. Now whether they will actually go on to be successful is a purely future telling exercise because there are so many variables involved in the entire thing some of which you have listed and are the BCCI's fault and the others like getting swayed by stardom, not following a proper work ethic etc. which are the players' fault.

[Chandan]

Re: Has India gone backwards compared to 90s??? Exactly. Whereas, it is rarely so in Australia. 85% of the players whom they give break are successful. Have you ever thought why is that not so in our country? Why does it happen that 0.5% are successful out of the players given brak in India? Just think. We'll get back to the debate.

[The Outsider]

Re: Has India gone backwards compared to 90s??? What's there to debate? You obviously feel the entire blame rests with the BCCI and my position is that both BCCI and the players have some glaring short comings right from our FC structure to pitches to the lethargy, complacency, and attitude of our players. How do you explain the walking pieces of lard like Sehwag, Powar, and Dhoni? They have facking potbellies hanging out. What did Zaheer look like before he was dropped last year? Look at the geriatric Ganguly. No need to go any further than our Munaf Babu who would make my mom look agile. Even our so called fit crikceter, Yuvraj carries excess fat to complement his primadonna attitude. What can the BCCI do about their penchant for paranthas and gulab jamuns during off season?

[Chandan]

Re: Has India gone backwards compared to 90s??? Isn't that the lack of professionalism from the board again? If I think the board is to blame, it is because of a reason. That reason is: 1.having a terribly flimsy domestic cricket structure, 2.no coaching or guidance at the grass-root level, 3.no education about the physical fitness and proper diets since the growing age of the cricketers. 4. No caring and monitoring of the players at FC level as well as national level 5. No introduction of the sporting culture right from the beginning. And who has to look after these? The board. I can't see how we can blame the players here. Players are like the goods produced from the factory. If the machinery of the factory is faulty, how on earth will you blame the goods for that?

[The Outsider]

Re: Has India gone backwards compared to 90s??? What!!! Okay, so they did not get the proper guidance when they were youngsters. Now they have been in the national side for years and have a physio, trainer, all the dietary support they need etc. etc. and still its the BCCI's fault!!!!

[Chandan]

Re: Has India gone backwards compared to 90s??? Have you ever thought why have so many young talent not been sustain their performance? What is the reason for that? And who are into the team since years: Sachin, Rahul and Ganguly? Have we ever heard about them gaining unnecessary weight or whatever? No. Why does it happen in the newer player only? If you produce a faulty AC, no matter what cover you give it later on, it'll still remain faulty. I hope you get what I'm trying to say!

[The Outsider]

Re: Has India gone backwards compared to 90s???

And who are into the team since years: Sachin, Rahul and Ganguly? Have we ever heard about them gaining unnecessary weight or whatever? No.

Please. Tendulkar is overweight and Ganguly is a geriatric. Dravid isn't atheletic either. Calling them fit by the standards of fitness being exhibited by other teams is stretching it.

Why does it happen in the newer player only? If you produce a faulty AC, no matter what cover you give it later on, it'll still remain faulty. I hope you get what I'm trying to say!

Look at Kaif and Raina they are also from the same factory producing faulty ACs. They might not have done much with the bat but their fitness levels are easily world class. They are what one would say newer players. Fitness is upto the individual, more so in the off season and most of our cricketers are downright lazy and negligent and the BCCI has nothing to do with that. EDIT: Overall, Tendulkar and Dravid are reasonably fit but to quote them as examples of fit cricketers is just way off.

[Chandan]

Re: Has India gone backwards compared to 90s???

Tendulkar is overweight and Ganguly is a geriatric. Dravid isn't atheletic either. Calling them fit by the standards of fitness being exhibited by other teams is stretching it.

If that is so, then Tendulkar and Ganguly have performed exceedingle well, being so unfit. And is Sachin overweight even now? No. He was about 8 years back, when he was at his peak. And one doesn't become athletic if one tries after 25 years of age!

Look at Kaif and Raina they are also from the same factory producing faulty ACs. They might not have done much with the bat but their fitness levels are easily world class. They are what one would say newer players.

Newer players are Munaf,Powar and Dhoni as well. Tell me how fit they are at such an age when everyone should be at the peak of the fitness. Talk obout the majority, Shwetabh! You have not seen even one domestic match I suppose!

Fitness is upto the individual, more so in the off season and most of our cricketers are downright lazy and negligent and the BCCI has nothing to do with that.

Certainly and this should be constantly monitored by the board throughout the year. If any such pattern is followed, not just for national cricketers but for all the FC cricketers too by respective state associations, would help improving the fitness level among player right from a young age of say U-15 level! But to expect it from BCCI is just foolhardy! And then, IS FITNESS THE ONLY ISSUE WHY INDIAN CRICKET IS GOING BACKWARDS?

[The Outsider]

Re: Has India gone backwards compared to 90s???

If that is so, then Tendulkar and Ganguly have performed exceedingle well, being so unfit. And is Sachin overweight even now? No. He was about 8 years back, when he was at his peak.

I never said Tendulkar is unfit, but he is not an example one would give when talking about fit players. I would say Tendulkar is a bit overweight even now, but nothing as alarming as some other pieces of lard.

And one doesn't become athletic if one tries after 25 years of age!

Maybe you wont become an Olympic runner but there is no reason to carry fat around, which is only there because they are not even trying. A person can lose around 3-4 kgs of weight in 4 weeks with moderate exercise and a prudent diet. I have done it. Why cant our cricketers? Because they dont even try.

Newer players are Munaf,Powar and Dhoni as well. Tell me how fit they are at such an age when everyone should be at the peak of the fitness. Talk obout the majority, Shwetabh! You have not seen even one domestic match I suppose!

Again, if Kaif and Raina can do it despite the ugly system there is NO excuse for others to not being able to do it. I am not even asking for a Kaif level of fitness, just minimal fat and swift body movements.

Certainly and this should be constantly monitored by the board throughout the year.

Tell me one board in the world which micro manages the fitness of the players in off season. Players should be mature enough to do it.

And then, IS FITNESS THE ONLY ISSUE WHY INDIAN CRICKET IS GOING BACKWARDS?

No its not but it just goes to show how serious these players are towards their profession.

[Chandan]

Re: Has India gone backwards compared to 90s???

Maybe you wont become an Olympic runner but there is no reason to carry fat around, which is only there because they are not even trying. A person can lose around 3-4 kgs of weight in 4 weeks with moderate exercise and a prudent diet. I have done it. Why cant our cricketers? Because they dont even try.

You said Dravid is not athletic. He doesn't carry any extra fat as I've seen it.

Again, if Kaif and Raina can do it despite the ugly system there is NO excuse for others to not being able to do it. I am not even asking for a Kaif level of fitness, just minimal fat and swift body movements.

Kaif and Raina can't bat like Dravid or Sachin does. What use is of that fitness because you won't be chosen in in the side?

Tell me one board in the world which micro manages the fitness of the players in off season. Players should be mature enough to do it.

Australia is one board. I remember reading the articles when India had gone there for Top-End series in June last year. And the Aussie fans at C4 always tell us how their State teams manage their players. And fat or not, they are extremely good in the field. I remember Cosgrove who is the fattest cricketer I've seen after Leverock. But boy, was he good in the field!!!

No its not but it just goes to show how serious these players are towards their profession

Again I'll tell you, FC cricket has become professional cricket only last year. Isn't expecting amateure players to be like professionals a bit too rich? Why don't you question Board instead which has shown no inclination to sow these work ethics since U-14 level?? Isn't it BCCI's job? CA does it. ECB does it. And now I heard that even BCB has started it? Where is BCCI????

[chanakya]

Re: Has India gone backwards compared to 90s??? Reading this after reading about newcomer pace bowler Ishant Sharma vomiting during practice :D As for Zaheer Khan who is kinda fit now he got fit while playing county cricket in England. Where they have masseurs, equpment etc available for the players. That is also FC i believe.