Gordon Brown v David Cameron

[Sooda]

^Indeed, thanks to the wonders of 'democracy'. Both DC and GB were much better as you say, so all in all made for a good debate I thought..wasnt that bad. I didnt see how it was meant to be on forein policy tho- there was talk about EU, bit about Afghanistan. But Much of it was Pensions, immigration etc etc. Gordon Brown should avoid a) Smiling; as he does so at the most awkward and innapropriate moments. and b) trying to crack jokes- that line about Clegg and Cam reminding him about his sons was a bit weak (Clegg's hit back '...that sounded better in reherseals...' was quality) I know he's trying hard to soften his image, but maybe he just..shouldnt

[Sooda]

On nearly all the other opinion polls GB cames out as the least favourable candidate. Secondly, GB was far from convincing in his answers, he spent most of the evening talking over the other 2 and kept repeating the same crap, which even the presenter had to point out to him. Also, on some of the questions he even bent the truth. For example, last night he said Labour will be increasing or at least maintaining current levels, whereas there is no mention of this in his manifesto. Also, on immigration he says Labours policy has brought about a drop in immigration levels, though there is no drop as he includes EU numbers into that equation which not even labour can control. I think DC came out pretty well in the debates, he answered questions more directly than GB, and displayed that he had more ideas, passion, and drive compared GB. Nick Clegg came out surprisingly well, though I feel people think he was good becuase they probably had never seen him before. With regards to the issue of NI, the reason why Tories have an issue with it is because as they say "it is a tax on jobs". Most people don't realise the amount of NI they are paying, as the salary is paid net and the NI is already taken off, and therefore may not realise that the increase will have an affect on them. The increase in NI will also hit the employers as well, hence it's a double whammy. Considering we are in a recession where companies are already reluctant to hire new staff, increasing the NI will only discourage employers to recruit.

I didnt think, in the first debate, that he spoke over the other two THAT much (tho he did a bit too much, and didnt come across too well because of it) Also he pandered to Cleggy a bit too obviously and muchly.. Dave had no answer to the the direct Q's that Brown had for him that day. And Im really not sure he has more ideas at all, though he can come across more passionate. I realise that much about NI, yeah. In the scheme of things though its a drop in the deficit ocean. But both Lab and Cons are equally vague about the gazillions (particularly in 'efficiency') they are meant to be saving- unlike the Libs whove spelt it out much better

[Gunner_Mania]

^ It could well be or it could also be Labour winning the most seats and Nick Clegg doing a deal provided somebody other than Brown becomes the Prime Minister with Cable being the Chancellor. I think this is the last opportunity for Cameron though, if he doesn't become the PM this time, I'm afraid his time would have come and gone.

[Jadoo]

I wonder whether those who have voted for Lib-Dems in the polls have actually looked at any of their policies, a few I find quite silly. I haven't agreed much with what Labour have said thus far, but do agree with them on the fact that these debates need to focus more around policies.

[Jadoo]

Alright guys third and final PM's Showdown. On BBC1 8.30pm BST/UKT Don't miss, this will be the juicy one where there will hopefully talk more in depth about the economy and hopefully give us more details on where these cuts will be coming from. Should be interesting to see what they have to say to Gordon Brown after his c*ck up yesterday (link below). http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/election-2010/7650888/General-Election-2010-world-newspapers-react-to-Gordon-Browns-bigot-gaffe.html

[Gunner_Mania]

So far so good. Very Interesting. Gordon Brown strong on his patch, but Nick Clegg having the last word still:) David Cameron's inexperience in handling the economy clearly showing.

[Jadoo]

So far so good. Very Interesting. Gordon Brown strong on his patch' date=' but Nick Clegg having the last word still:) David Cameron's inexperience in handling the economy clearly showing.[/quote'] No way Gunner, Lib-Dem's initiatives on economy and spending cuts are just Utopia, there are unrealistic. The idiot wants all the parties to get involved to develop ideas to cut deficit and get our economy moving, thats as good as accepting defeat as they know their bloody clueless at managing the economy!!!!!! Than there's the amnesty on immmigration, thats just a fecking joke. SO far, DC has spoken more directly and answered the questions match better.

[Gunner_Mania]

No way Gunner' date=' Lib-Dem's initiatives on economy and spending cuts are just Utopia, there are unrealistic. [b']The idiot wants all the parties to get involved to develop ideas to cut deficit and get our economy moving, thats as good as accepting defeat as they know their bloody clueless at managing the economy!!!!!! Than there's the amnesty on immmigration, thats just a fecking joke. SO far, DC has spoken more directly and answered the questions match better.

He will obviously want all parties to get involved because, he knows as much as you and me he is not going to make Prime Minister. The best he will get is a coalition government, hoping Vince Cable becomes the Chancellor. The amnesty on immigration is something we will disagree because I am an immigrant (not an illegal one). I work hard, pay my taxes, pump money intot he Economy and don't claim any benefits. Something has to be done about the illegal immigrants - which David & Gordon don't even seem to acknowledge -, either get them out of the country by deporting them or as Nick says give them amnesty and bring them into the mainstream as legal immigrants, so that they are not able to claim benefits and must work, pay their taxes and contribute to the economy.

[Jadoo]

He will obviously want all parties to get involved because, he knows as much as you and me he is not going to make Prime Minister. The best he will get is a coalition government, hoping Vince Cable becomes the Chancellor. The amnesty on immigration is something we will disagree because I am an immigrant (not an illegal one). I work hard, pay my taxes, pump money intot he Economy and don't claim any benefits. Something has to be done about the illegal immigrants - which David & Gordon don't even seem to acknowledge -, either get them out of the country by deporting them or as Nick says give them amnesty and bring them into the mainstream as legal immigrants, so that they are not able to claim benefits and must work, pay their taxes and contribute to the economy.

With regards to getting the other parties involved in making decisions about the econmy, he said that as one of his initiative if Lib-Dem were elected, not if their in a coalition goverment. Also, if there was a coalition government, there is no way the party with the higher number of seats is going to allow a minister from the coalition government to take up the most important position at this very moment in time as chancellor, it woul be suicidal. Regarding the amnesty, I don't think there is any party that is against those immigrants who want to come to the UK and work and contribute to society. Your are an example of the type of individuals the UK need and welcome. The problem with Lib-Dems amnesty on immigration is that there are a vast number of immigrants that come over to the United Kingdom; as they know it is a weak state on immigration, and they are aware that they can claim benefits and get away without working and contributing at all. Included in them will also be illegal immigrants as well, giving them all amnesty will give them quite literally the same right that most law abiding, tax paying Brits get, yet these people will not have to contribute at all. Also, another thing is that not even the current governing labour party know how many legal and illegal immigrants currently reside within the UK, which makes Lib-Dems amnesty sound a lot more hair raising.

[Sooda]

I think your last line Jadoo is the Libs point- i.e we dont even know who and how many they are--how are we going to get rid of them. Plus its not as simple as 'an amnesty'..they will need to do community service as Cleggy pointed out to make up for lost taxes, will only apply for people who can speak english and want to settle here; and moreover only people who are already here can get citizenship this way. People coming after 2010 will not be able to hang around for 10 years and apply if they are illegal. (though how they will check that seeing as these will not exactly have stamped passports is another question...) Im also not sure that them wanting a bit of cooperation is a sign of not knowing what to do with the economy. Clegg has highlighted a desire for cross party co-operation in both this and pensions (i tthink) an obvious ploy perhaps to get the people seeing him as a antitide to the 'punch and judy politics' but still an effective one. If anything they have been the most specific about where there are going to make cuts so they seem to have the clearest idea of the three about how to deal with it (if only marginally) and anyway Id trust Vince Cable to know what to do with it over George Osbourne anyday!!

[Jadoo]

I think your last line Jadoo is the Libs point- i.e we dont even know who and how many they are--how are we going to get rid of them. Plus its not as simple as 'an amnesty'..they will need to do community service as Cleggy pointed out to make up for lost taxes, will only apply for people who can speak english and want to settle here; and moreover only people who are already here can get citizenship this way. People coming after 2010 will not be able to hang around for 10 years and apply if they are illegal. (though how they will check that seeing as these will not exactly have stamped passports is another question...) Im also not sure that them wanting a bit of cooperation is a sign of not knowing what to do with the economy. Clegg has highlighted a desire for cross party co-operation in both this and pensions (i tthink) an obvious ploy perhaps to get the people seeing him as a antitide to the 'punch and judy politics' but still an effective one. If anything they have been the most specific about where there are going to make cuts so they seem to have the clearest idea of the three about how to deal with it (if only marginally) and anyway Id trust Vince Cable to know what to do with it over George Osbourne anyday!!

Not knowing the number of immigrants and where they are is no reason to offer them amnesty I feel personally. We have absolutely exhausted resources, housing, NHS etc, and cannot support such a radical plan. Clegg is unwilling to even talk numbers on this issue for the same reason as above, the amnesty could run into the hundreds or thousands, and moreover, it is more likely to make things worse on the long run as there will be no going back. Regarding their bi-partisan approach to decision making on the economy, if that is one of their ideas than they might as well throw away the policy initiatives they already have in place!! Are there not confident in their own policies? If elected into power, would it not be their responsibility to carry out the policies as they promised to the people that voted them into power. I understand you point regarding the fact that Lib-Dems are gearing themselves up for a hung parliament, but as a voter; where you are electing a party into power, I want to hear more decisive ideas, rather than one that sounds a bit sceptic in their own ability. Vince Cable would make a good chancellor, you sense more integraty from him than Geoarge Osborne, and I do feel that George Osborne is the weakest link in the Torries, though I don't feel that will deter voters, as parties are elected on the back of their leaders, not their chancellors.

[Gunner_Mania]

It felt like Brown has already thrown in the towel when he said at the end, if things remain as they are now, in a week there will be a Conservatives government with support from Lib Dems. David Cameron - PM, Vince Cable - Chancellor. David Cameron wanting to put a cap on immigration, Nick Clegg wanting to give Amnesty. I wonder once the election is over, and bed fellows are made, how many of these policies will go out of the window.

[Jadoo]

It felt like Brown has already thrown in the towel when he said at the end, if things remain as they are now, in a week there will be a Conservatives government with support from Lib Dems. David Cameron - PM, Vince Cable - Chancellor. David Cameron wanting to put a cap on immigration, Nick Clegg wanting to give Amnesty. I wonder once the election is over, and bed fellows are made, how many of these policies will go out of the window.

I don't think the policies will be thrown out the window, as especially regarding immigration as this is something that needs to be sorted. Though I feel these policies will be put on the back burner, until they have taken drastic measures to sort out the mess in public finances. Interesting comment made by Mervyn King, I do agree with it. It might be a blessing in disguise for in the long term for whoever loses. LINK http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/election-2010/7654488/General-Election-2010-cuts-will-doom-election-winner-warns-Mervyn-King.html

[Gunner_Mania]

Double Dip Recession Warning. http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Business/Double-Dip-Recession-Warning-From-Banks-In-Secret-Report/Article/201004415622884?lpos=Business_Carousel_Region_4&lid=ARTICLE_15622884_Double-Dip_Recession_Warning_From_Banks_In_Secret_Report

[Jadoo]

D-Day Hope you have casted you vote!!!

[jukkha]

D-Day Hope you have casted you vote!!!

I have voted for DC. Traditionally vote labour but would like to see a change. DC also said some good stuff about British INDIANS! :) Is that a good enough reason ;)

[Gunner_Mania]

I have voted for DC. Traditionally vote labour but would like to see a change. DC also said some good stuff about British INDIANS! :) Is that a good enough reason ;)

That is for you to decide:) I exercised my rights:)

[Jadoo]

I have voted for DC. Traditionally vote labour but would like to see a change. DC also said some good stuff about British INDIANS! :) Is that a good enough reason ;)

:two_thumbs_up::two_thumbs_up: Thats more than a good enough reason!!

[Jadoo]

That is for you to decide:) I exercised my rights:)

Who did you vote for G? Labour right?

[Gunner_Mania]

Who did you vote for G? Labour right?

I am not telling you :yoyo: but I don't expect GB to be in No. 10 tomorrow morning.