Gavaskar vs Tendulkar

[achilles]

I am sory to dissapont you dear friend. My arguement cuts across the point and is factually correct. Yours on the other hand comes across as pure argy bargy with all due respect. First lets get your facts right. Fact # 1 The "weak against spin " South Africans have a problem with Warne and are not as good as Indians - no one is. But the "weak against spin " South Africans have won test series against Lanka in Lanka , Pakistan in Pakistan..and the biggest of all India in India, hell whitewashing us 2-0 once. We have struggled to hold on to them even at home. Check out Kumble and Harbhajan's atrocious home record against "weak against spin" South Africa. Fact # 2 Playing on pitches with bounce is not the same as playing genuine pace. Akhtar and Steyn have demolished Aussies in the past with sheer pace. Johnson has done the same to Saffies last year with sheer pace. Speed khelna koi bacchon ka khel nahi hai, phirti gend khelna toh anubhav se niota jata hai.

Fair enough. We need a 150+ bowler who wouldn't be taken off the field on a stretcher after touching 153. But I wouldn't like to do that at the cost of a potential match-winning spinner. We need to catch up with the other countries in terms of pace coz we are very ordinary in that department. However, we should not forget that our strength would not be a 22yr old kid bowling 150+ one day and barely touching 130 a few months down the line, over a spinner who is only going to mature over time.

[Roshanrocks]

No matter what anyone says, does, shows or writes, Gavaskar was a greater Test player than Sachin Tendulkar. No youtube video or a horrendous Sachin suck-up write-up will make me change my mind. Sachin is a Legend of this time. But Gavaskar was the Pioneer and Sachin is his protege !

proof of bias so basically Tendulkar haters consider all tom dick n harry to be better then SRT regardless of facts, evidence, proof, argmuents that will be provided to the contrary :D secondly Test Cricket will be considered the gospel to deduce who the best batsman is and ODI's will never qualify, because the skills required to excel in it will never be considered by tendulkar haters as that will negate their anti-tendulkar theories.... Thank you very much ladies and gentelmen in providing such insightfulness to us ordinary cricket fans. :hatsoff:

[thevortex]

Patriot - not to extend this discussion further, because I honestly believe that such a theory as one style of bowling being "better" than another is just not worth the time. Just wanted to add a small point. Look at the pitches that we produced against the South Africans. Were they turners? Were we pandering to our strengths as much as the South Africans pandered to their own strengths at, say, Durban or Johannesburg? Now take a look at "Fact" 1 that you mention. There is nothing to deny regarding "Fact" 2. Do you want me to quote examples where spinners bundled up batsmen on conducive wickets? Do you realize that the only people who have taken 10 wickets in an innings have been spinners? Can I use that argument to say that spin is greater than pace? Would that not be pointless? No offense meant either, Patriot. It is just that I love the game a lot and still do play it as far as my limitations allow me to. I value spinners as much as pacemen. And I strongly believe that the choice of bowlers should be based on the surface on offer and the batsmen at the crease. Not based on superiority of one craft over the other.

[achilles]

proof of bias so basically Tendulkar haters consider all tom dick n harry to be better then SRT regardless of facts, evidence, proof, argmuents that will be provided to the contrary :D secondly Test Cricket will be considered the gospel to deduce who the best batsman is and ODI's will never qualify, because the skills required to excel in it will never be considered by tendulkar haters as that will negate their anti-tendulkar theories.... Thank you very much ladies and gentelmen in providing such insightfulness to us ordinary cricket fans. :hatsoff:

C'mon man. Calling me a Tendulkar "hater" because I like Sunny more is like saying you like our neighbours more than our people. I think the Tendulkar adulation is a bit overdone at times. But I respectfully disagree with your present assertion that Sachin was a better batsman than Sunny Paaji.

[Dhondy]

This inferiority attitude with respect to pace > spin is what is partly responsible for India losing ground on the spin front - both in terms of players as well as surfaces.[/QUOTE] Good. The quicker we get rid of win-at-home-bomb overseas-backyard bullies, and tailormade crumblers, the better. Replace them with all surface bowlers- that means pacemen.

[Roshanrocks]

C'mon man. Calling me a Tendulkar "hater" because I like Sunny more is like saying you like our neighbours more than our people. I think the Tendulkar adulation is a bit overdone at times. But I respectfully disagree with your present assertion that Sachin was a better batsman than Sunny Paaji.

just because he didnt wear a helmet? how about adaptation and dominance in ODIs? that too wont count right? See thats where bias in opinion comes flying in... and anyways i have very good friends across the border too... some of them are really nice people if u get to know them

[Dhondy]

No spin dominated side has ever ruled world cricket. The reverse doesn't apply. Your argument is sentimental, parochial, patriotic, weak, substanceless and vapid, Vortex. It doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

[Guest BossBhai]

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[graphic23]

No spin dominated side has ever ruled world cricket. The reverse doesn't apply. Your argument is sentimental, parochial, patriotic, weak, substanceless and vapid, Vortex. It doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

And you can make that jump that "no spin dominated side ruled world cricket" to "spinners are worthless bowlers and only batsmen who can face pace and not have their average drop by 10 points are the true leaders of their generation" because of what evidence?

[thevortex]

Dhondy - despite your adjective mongering, which, needless to say is a game that two can play - any talk of pace greater than spin or spin greater than pace only forces the question up. Have you played the game that you talk about? Sorry for being blunt, but really this is a very contextual question. No disrespect meant at all. There is nothing patriotic or sentimental about it at all. Your stand on the other hand is extremely hypocritical and not a little insecure and smacking of an inferiority complex. Why? Think about the surfaces, Dhondy. Pace has the potential to work on almost any surface. Spin on the other hand needs requisite conditions. Is that so hard for you to understand? Frankly to call pace greater than spin - that would be an error no cricketer will ever make. I could take the analogy forward but I am sure you understand. Again - no offense meant.

[Roshanrocks]

can i ask you people one thing? gavaskar averaged 65.45 against the West Indies for 27 tests... very wonderful record now... gavaskar has pleyd the most number of his matches against England (38 tests) why does he average only 38.2 against them? were their bowlers more fearsome than the West Indian bowlers?

[thevortex]

This inferiority attitude with respect to pace > spin is what is partly responsible for India losing ground on the spin front - both in terms of players as well as surfaces.[ Good. The quicker we get rid of win-at-home-bomb overseas-backyard bullies, and tailormade crumblers, the better. Replace them with all surface bowlers- that means pacemen.

That, Dhondy, is sheer nonsense. Why should we welcome visitors to our land with tracks that play like at their own backyard? On the other hand, if you can use some good old logic, here is a solution to our problems. Play on turners when visitors tour. But play domestic cricket on a good mixture of bouncy wickets and turners and flat tracks. This would enable domestic cricketers to not blink like wild does when confronted with fast tracks abroad but neverthless make home advantage count when visitors come in. To abandon spin altogether is..well...need I say it out aloud? :)

[Guest BossBhai]

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[thevortex]

can i ask you people one thing? gavaskar averaged 65.45 against the West Indies for 27 tests... very wonderful record now... gavaskar has pleyd the most number of his matches against England (38 tests) why does he average only 38.2 against them? were their bowlers more fearsome than the West Indian bowlers?

That is the problem with viewing at players and the game solely through numbers, Roshanrocks.

[Dhondy]

Think about the surfaces, Dhondy. Pace has the potential to work on almost any surface. Spin on the other hand needs requisite conditions. Is that so hard for you to understand?

Exactly.

[Dhondy]

Doc you do know that its not possible to do that in our conditions .. right ?

Who helped me write this? http://www.indiancricketfans.com/showthread.php?t=73418

[thevortex]

Exactly.

Selective reading will not do it Dhondy. Aggressive batsmanship requires different conditions than defensive batsmanship. So shall we rank both these styles as one being better than the other? There is only one word to describe such a tendency - pointless. And that is being very kind.

[Roshanrocks]

No spin dominated side has ever ruled world cricket. The reverse doesn't apply. Your argument is sentimental, parochial, patriotic, weak, substanceless and vapid, Vortex. It doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

thats because spin bowling is an art which is mastered by very few people. How many great spin bowlers can you count throughout history? and have u noticed when india produces rank turners the pitches are labelled as BAD pitches not lasting 5 days? and no objections are made when "foreigners" prepare fast bouncy tracks to suit their bowlers?

[Roshanrocks]

That is the problem with viewing at players and the game solely through numbers, Roshanrocks.

EXACTLY my friend!!!!! Exactly.... so when tendulkar is dismissed as a worthless batsman using pure statistical manipulation and twisting of stats to explain some ridiculous theory wudnt some of us fans see RED?

[Guest BossBhai]

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